2007 Audi A4 Oil Consumption

[gleil99]

History:
-Bought certified at 28,500 mi
-After purchase, Oil consumption has been: 1qt/10,275; 1qt/2690; 1qt/1300.
-Audi did piston rings at 42,800. cAR now at 47,900
-Since ring replacement consumption is ~0.6qt/5000 and increasing.
-There are 1000's of 2.0T's doing the same thing.

NEED GUIDANCE:
- IS THERE ANY CONSENSUS ON A FIX FOR THE HIGH CONSUMPTION?
- WHAT IS THE BEST SYN OIL FOR THIS SITUATION? CHANGE FREQ?
- WHAT ARE THE BEST OIL ANALYSIS COMPANIES?
- IS THERE A CONSENSUS ON WHAT OIL CONSUMPTION SHOULD BE? AUDI'S CONSUMPTION NUMBERS?
- IS CARBON ON THE CYLINDER HEADS NORMAL?

 

[Audi Junkie]

FSI intake deposits are "normal" but not good.

Use the best fuel you can get.

http://toptiergas.com

You can add some Techron to every tank, I also add 2-Cycle oil at 500:1 in my 2.0 TSI, also it burns no oil.

 

[Audi Junkie]

I think a good approach is to use a 15w40 as long as it's above freezing, and during winter go with a 5w-40 HD like Rotella. Maybe there is room in there for Rotella 10w30 semisyn T5, which is an AWESOME product...maybe the best choice overall. Up to 5k miles changes, say 3x a year so you can adjust the oil visc for the different seasons. Kind of a pain, but it works well and is a solution to consumption.

The 15w40 would be considered an extreme measure, and I don't think your consumption is that bad. What I like about 15w40 is low volatility, which should minimise intake deposits. Otoh, there are some very nice synth oils available over the counter. Mobil 1 High Miles being the top of my list. The 10w30 HM should be excellent down to +10f, the 5w30 HM is good for lower winter temps, but you may actually want to have some of he 10w-40 HM on hand for topping off or even mixing in.

There is plenty on this site written about it. Search "DI" "intake" "deposits" (on Google). lmk if you have any questions.

 

[dtt004]

Hi.

FSI, Audi's term for Direct Fuel Injection, does not spray the fuel from the intake port; the injector sprays directly into the cylinder.

The reason why the valves are crudded up with carbon is a side effect of the FSI's "lean burn." FSI means that the fuel is injected late in the compression stroke, fuel is "stratified" above the air. Theoretically, this leans out the mixture and lowers combustion temperatures. However, FSI is always alternating between different modes depending on the throttle applied. This is where the system is imperfect (as is all other direct fuel injection applications). Lean burn, upon combustion, produces hotter temperatures. The valves do not recieve conventional cooling from fuel injection, and thus get extremely hot. The burns the impurities in the fuel, causing carbon buildup.

However, the problem is, almost all the fuels available to the consumer meet the same quality standards and are the same quality. Unfortunately, right now, there is not a movement towards direct fuel injection, so energy companies are not reformulating their additive packages and fuel to cope with the new problems concerning lean burn and stratified fuel applications.

You can see that diesel engines almost always have a similar problem with carbon build up, although due to different reasons as well including the fuel itself.

Anyways, there is no fix for the high consumption. I'm afraid that Audi went ahead of itself when it started marketing the direct fuel injection while not marketing its disadvantages (obviously).

DFI produces more power and greater efficiency. It is used in racing and motorsports to great effect. However, these engines are rebuilt constantly, so carbon build up is not an issue.

If you want to see a more practical application of DFI, examine Toyota's approach. They utilize 2 fuel injectors. One for the intake port and one for the cylinder. By adjusting the amount of fuel sprayed between the two, Toyota can effectively manage the build up problem. Audi doesn't do this.

Hope this information helps.

 

[dtt004]

And to add, Techron won't do anything significant. Remember, fuel isn't being sprayed on the intake valves. This is the conventional approach to keeping intake valves clean.

When there is no injection, there is no cleaning. Period.

 

[Audi Junkie]

Valve lap.

 

[saaber1]

Originally Posted By: dtt004
The reason why the valves are crudded up with carbon is a side effect of the FSI's "lean burn."

Lean burn is not used in the U.S.

Originally Posted By: dtt004
Unfortunately, right now, there is not a movement towards direct fuel injection, so energy companies are not reformulating their additive packages and fuel to cope with the new problems concerning lean burn and stratified fuel applications.

Huge movement by manufacturers to DI: Audi, VW, Mazda, Gm, Porsche, Ford, Ferrrai, Mini to name a few.

Originally Posted By: dtt004
Anyways,there is no fix for the high consumption. I'm afraid that Audi went ahead of itself when it started marketing the direct fuel injection while not marketing its disadvantages (obviously)

Audi/VW fixed the oil consumption problems with the TSI.

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
gleil99 - Firstly welcome to BITOG - enjoy!

Some comments on your issues;

1 - I don't beleive your current oil consumption is "excessive"
2 - Your car may be covered by Warranty (rings etc) - Use an Approved lubricant
3 - Consider using a Lab that supports BITOG

On expert advice and experience, deposits are an OEM issue and not primarily lubricant related. IMO this is now covered by service routines

 

[gleil99]

All of u are way ahead of me.
-Are the oils mentioned on the 502 spec?
-Does this mean that there are 1000's of engines that are disfunctional oil hogs and Audi has its head in the sand??
-What does intake valve carbon buildup have to do with oil consumption? Pardon the ignorance
-why did changing the piston rings change the oil consumption?
- why is 1qt /1000 miles not significant?
-do any of these pics show anything of significance?







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Uploaded with ImageShack.us

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
gleil99 - My comment on oil consumption related to this from you:

"-Since ring replacement consumption is ~0.6qt/5000 and increasing."

 

[gleil99]

Thanks Doug. I hope it stays there. audi is beginning a consumption test today. I'll know more in 1000 mi

 

[wolfc70]

Originally Posted By: gleil99
All of u are way ahead of me.
-Are the oils mentioned on the 502 spec?
-Does this mean that there are 1000's of engines that are disfunctional oil hogs and Audi has its head in the sand??
-What does intake valve carbon buildup have to do with oil consumption? Pardon the ignorance
-why did changing the piston rings change the oil consumption?
- why is 1qt /1000 miles not significant?
-do any of these pics show anything of significance?



1. Some 502 oils have shown not to work that well with DI engines.
2. There have been more than a few 2.0 FSI engines with higher than normal oil consumption. Yours was pretty bad.
3. If the rings are going bad, you get more blow by (combustion gasses leaking past the rings and entering the crank case), this causes more gases and oil vapor to go through the PCV system. This can increase the rate of valve deposits.
4. The new rings simply seal better, this less oil is getting past them, and you will have less blow by.
5. 1qt/1000 miles is the de facto standard most auto makes use as a guide line. Anything more than 1gt/1000 miles indicates there is a problem worth the cost of digging into.
6. Yes, there is lots of oily carbon deposits on the pistons, indicating you had bad/worn piston rings. I'm guessing the oil control ring was mostly at fault.

I would use a nice robust HDEO 5w-40 and stick with 5000 mile OCI's. If you are extending your drain intervals,this could be causing problems with oil control ring coking. Since the VW/AUDI FSI engines seem to have fuel dilution problems, excess fuel dilution could make the oil more volatile and "burn off" quicker.

My friends 2007 Passat with the 2.0t FSI seems to burn 1 quart every 2500 miles. His burned more, but he had a tendency to pound on the car when the engine was cold. Since he stopped that, oil consumption has gotten better.

 

[Audi Junkie]

As far as I'm told, there are no apparent deposit issues w/TSI at 50,000mi.

As far as VW 502, 5w-40 etc being ever so important, in Europe, VAG uses neither of these. They use VW 504, which is usually 5w30.


Here in USA we can benefit from a number of oils that are better than either spec, but lowered cost. Rotella, of course as well as the M1 HM oils, which some posters have ZERO experience with. Our USa Edge 5w30 has produced the best 1.8t UOA I've ever seen, and Brad Penn 10w30 the best in your engine, so don't be caught in the mad rush to endorse a mediocre 13-year-old VW 502 oil formula like Syntec 5w-40 when there are apparently better oils widely available.

 

[gleil99]

Does the carbon buildup as mentioned by dtt004 have anything to do with the oil consumption?

 

[gleil99]

http://www.bshspeedshop.com/store/home.php.
Does this help anything?