2005 Honda Odyssey repeated oil leaks/consumption

Messages
8
Hi. I have a 2005 Odyssey with 135,000 miles (original owner, bought new).
Recent problems:
1). Recently upon coming to a stop, the vehicle started vibrating and nearly stalled. The check engine light came on. Upon pulling away from traffic light, it didn’t have full power and would only travel at about 10 mph.
I pulled off and called my mechanic. I asked him if it was safe to drive or if I needed to have it towed to their shop about 4 miles away. He incorrectly diagnosed it over the phone as a spark plug coil and said it would be fine to drive it. Unfortunately I wasn’t astute enough to even think it might be the oil so I didn’t check it.
After my phone call to the mechanic, I drove off the engine returned to full power and I drove to the shop. I was lucky the engine didn’t seize up. They said the oil didn’t register on the dipstick. They diagnosed it as a bad gasket in the VVT (spool valve) assembly and replaced it. It’s never leaked/used oil before and I’ve always had recommended maintenance. I thought it was fixed and went on my merry way.

2). Soon (2-4 weeks) it displayed the same symptoms (nearly stalled, decreased power) and upon checking the oil it didn’t register again. I added oil and took it to a local Honda dealership. As I recall it took about 4 quarts to bring it to the normal full line. This time they replaced the entire spool valve assembly, the valve cover gaskets the rear and front head plugs, O-rings for camshaft thrust covers, and rear and front UCG set, according to the estimate. That repair was nearly $3000. With just about any gasket that could possibly leak oil replaced, I thought surely I was fixed and good to go this time.
Soon after that I made about a 5 Hour drive that a friend had to follow me, I was informed that on occasion going up a hill or when giving the vehicle gas a brief puff of smoke would come out of the engine exhaust, but it was not continuous.

3). Fast forward about a month from the second repair and the vehicle nearly stalled at a red light and again the oil didn’t register on the dipstick. You would’ve thought I would’ve learned my lesson and been checking it but after all of those repairs I never imagined it could still have a problem. My ignorance. Won’t happen again!
I added oil and took it to the Honda dealership again and they said they couldn’t find a leak and they recommended a 1000 mile consumption test and the mechanic said he thinks that the piston rings are bad. They gave me a ballpark figure that it would take about $4500 to repair the piston rings or they said that I could put a used engine in it and the only one they could find had 120,000 miles and would cost over $5000 to install. That’s only 15,000 fewer miles than the engine it has. Obviously I declined that offer. (Of course Honda made no mention of the VCM issue! I only just learned of that when I began research after hearing this bad news from the dealer.)

Discussion:
They didn’t comment upon how they checked for leaks or what if any diagnostics they did. They didn’t say anything about a dry or wet compression test or a leak down test so I’m not sure how they determined that it isn’t leaking and that they feel the piston rings are bad.

I was really hoping I can take this vehicle to about 200,000 miles. My sister has an 07 Odyssey and it has 200,000 miles and they’ve never had a problem with an oil leak/consumption. I have never let the vehicle run hot or had any “major” problems with it and have always done recommended maintenance. I have had some repairs that I now learned could be a result of the VCM (torque converter (around 40,000 miles), engine mounts (around 80,000 miles), and now oil leak, and consumption at 135k). The only downside is that the major utilization for the vehicle is city driving, short trips - under 2-5 miles, occasionally 10, and rarely farther for trips - hence 135k in 15 years. (Fortunately now I am driving about 120 miles round trip every weekend but that may be a day later and a dollar short!)

In doing research, I’m learning that the VCM can cause premature wear on the piston rings as well as a host of other issues I’ve experienced. I’ve also learned however that there are other things besides the rings that can cause oil consumption, including VCM itself and a bad PCV valve, so I’m hoping to check that out before scrapping a 135k vehicle that has been properly maintained by Honda standards.

Interventions/Questions:
I’ve ordered the VCMtuner2 and a PCV valve. It seems that the PCV valve might be responsible for oil leaks at multiple sites from overpressurization and that that could happen from blow-by due to VCM issues clogging PCV valve. An independent mechanic is going to try and overnight soak/clean the oil control rings this week in case blow-by might be occurring, clogging them. Hopefully these low oil episodes and/or VCM haven’t done irreparable damage to piston rings and/or cylinder walls. Keeping my fingers crossed these interventions may be enough to let her keep on going while!

Any recommendations on if it is worth rebuilding/replacing the piston rings or if that is cost prohibitive should I just keep adding oil and run the vehicle until it dies? If it’s still “consuming” oil after this would you recommend a catch can to keep PCV from getting clogged?
Any advice appreciated…
Lordy I hate car payments!
 
Messages
26,175
Location
MA, Mittelfranken.de
The PCV valve is a big issue with these but the valve cover it is in can also be part of the problem. This front valve cover (looking at it from the front of the car) has a plate with a bunch of small holes in it, this is where the vapors travel to the PCV, these holes get clogged effectively making the PCV inop.
It can be cleaned using carb and parts cleaner letting it soak overnight.

This is what you may find, the first pic is the front with the PCV the second is the rear with the fresh air inlet, the engine needs free flowing air through the crankcase to remove the vapors through the PCV properly, if either is blocked its a problem.

SAM_0101.JPG


SAM_0127.JPG


The other issue you may or may not find is an extra screen in the oil filter pad. Some of the 05 had both some not, the VCM engine usually only has one at the spool valve but some got through with both, this one did.

SAM_0076.JPG


Changing this is no problem 3x 10mm head bolts IIRC and you can get at it through the pass side wheel well with the wheel removed, about 20 min.

After all that I would put a can of Berrymans Chemtool in the oil in a cold engine and run it for 15 min not more at idle only then change the oil and filter. I would then run 16oz of Kreen in the new oil and 16oz in the fuel, run it for 1K keeping an eye on the oil then change it and the filter.
You can either run Kreen again or try it without but I would add a UV dye to the oil to pin point any leaks with a UV light, the stuff from GM is very good, it and the light are available from Amazon and other sources for cheap.
 
Messages
553
Location
Phila, PA
I have an `06 Ody EXL, 168,000. Just did a valve adj. for 1st time, under valve cover and on heads looks like sludge and crap, even though I maintained it extremely well. Mine also sees lots of short trips. I am just hoping to get 5 more years out of it. Fingers crossed. Mine uses about 2-3 quarts of oil in a 5000 miles OCI. Using synthetic. I bet my engine would be dead if I used conventional and followed the Maintenance Light.
 

trhccrn

Thread starter
Messages
8
Thank you so much for your valuable input!!! I’m passing on your comments to my mechanic working on it this week


I
The PCV valve is a big issue with these but the valve cover it is in can also be part of the problem. This front valve cover (looking at it from the front of the car) has a plate with a bunch of small holes in it, this is where the vapors travel to the PCV, these holes get clogged effectively making the PCV inop.
It can be cleaned using carb and parts cleaner letting it soak overnight.

This is what you may find, the first pic is the front with the PCV the second is the rear with the fresh air inlet, the engine needs free flowing air through the crankcase to remove the vapors through the PCV properly, if either is blocked its a problem.
 

trhccrn

Thread starter
Messages
8
@Trav I meant to ask earlier but forgot…do you have recommendations for oil/oil filters? (2005 135k) Maybe ATF as well? Thank you in advance …
 
Messages
26,175
Location
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Mobil 1 0w40 works real well in these engines, I like the cleaning effect of this oil as well as its performance. Amsoil ATF (not ATFL) has worked well for me in these some going well over 100K and still shifting perfectly and looking clean.
I am sure there are many other oils and ATF that will work well this is just based on my personal experience.
 
Messages
335
Location
D-FW, Texas
I have an 06 EX-L with same miles as you. It’s muzzled as of 2 yrs ago. All service done and only a tiny bit of sludge noted on the front valve cover, train itself was clean during the valve cover replacement.

Given your situation that you’ve run it dry more than once, you have oil smoke coming out, likely excessive wear to the top end, etc., it’s likely time to look at other options. The next thing you are going to have is clogged cats from the oil burn. I personally would not spend more than an hour or two of diag labor before moving on. Hopefully you can get some trade value and the $ you we’re going to spend on a replacement engine would be a down payment on something a bit newer.
 

trhccrn

Thread starter
Messages
8
I have an 06 EX-L with same miles as you. It’s muzzled as of 2 yrs ago. All service done and only a tiny bit of sludge noted on the front valve cover, train itself was clean during the valve cover replacement.

Given your situation that you’ve run it dry more than once, you have oil smoke coming out, likely excessive wear to the top end, etc., it’s likely time to look at other options. The next thing you are going to have is clogged cats from the oil burn. I personally would not spend more than an hour or two of diag labor before moving on. Hopefully you can get some trade value and the $ you we’re going to spend on a replacement engine would be a down payment on something a bit newer.
Thank you for your honest feedback!
 
Messages
41
Location
Switzerland
The PCV valve is a big issue with these but the valve cover it is in can also be part of the problem. This front valve cover (looking at it from the front of the car) has a plate with a bunch of small holes in it, this is where the vapors travel to the PCV, these holes get clogged effectively making the PCV inop.
It can be cleaned using carb and parts cleaner letting it soak overnight.

This is what you may find, the first pic is the front with the PCV the second is the rear with the fresh air inlet, the engine needs free flowing air through the crankcase to remove the vapors through the PCV properly, if either is blocked its a problem.

View attachment 33101

View attachment 33102

The other issue you may or may not find is an extra screen in the oil filter pad. Some of the 05 had both some not, the VCM engine usually only has one at the spool valve but some got through with both, this one did.

View attachment 33103

Changing this is no problem 3x 10mm head bolts IIRC and you can get at it through the pass side wheel well with the wheel removed, about 20 min.

After all that I would put a can of Berrymans Chemtool in the oil in a cold engine and run it for 15 min not more at idle only then change the oil and filter. I would then run 16oz of Kreen in the new oil and 16oz in the fuel, run it for 1K keeping an eye on the oil then change it and the filter.
You can either run Kreen again or try it without but I would add a UV dye to the oil to pin point any leaks with a UV light, the stuff from GM is very good, it and the light are available from Amazon and other sources for cheap.
Now, this was a heck of a post. Thanks
 
Messages
3,355
Location
USA
It's been driven without oil three times now, and there is smoke from the tailpipe-- likely the engine has had it. It's time to step back and quit spending money without a full assessment anyway.
 
Messages
76
Location
canada
This is apples to oranges, but I went to my local honda dealership to purchase a pcv valve for my 05 CR-V. Luckily there was a mechanic talking to the parts guy and overheard what parts I was buying.

He asked why I thought the pcv is non functional. I explained that I had an oil leak and thought if the pcv was clogged, it cant vent the pressure, thus causing oil to leak at certain places due to pressure. (Same theory was posted in this thread)

He said if the pcv was failing the check engine light would illuminate, and give an emission code for all honda engines. And assured me the pcv doesnt fail often. I still purchased and changed it for peace of mind. Sorry long rant.
 
Messages
335
Location
D-FW, Texas
Are we talking about the PCV valve on a K24 (e.g., CR-V) or a J35 ? I don’t know how it works on the latter, but on the K24 it’s a spring valve.
It’s often cited as a item to check (it rattled ok on my K24 but didn’t improve oil consumption when replaced) but curious how often it actually solved the oil problem on a J35…
 
Messages
5,427
Location
Ohio
Does a 2005 have VCM ? We had an EX and it did not. I think they started adding them close to that time frame but initially only on the EX-L and Touring trims before they all got it.
 

trhccrn

Thread starter
Messages
8
This is apples to oranges, but I went to my local honda dealership to purchase a pcv valve for my 05 CR-V. Luckily there was a mechanic talking to the parts guy and overheard what parts I was buying.

He asked why I thought the pcv is non functional. I explained that I had an oil leak and thought if the pcv was clogged, it cant vent the pressure, thus causing oil to leak at certain places due to pressure. (Same theory was posted in this thread)

He said if the pcv was failing the check engine light would illuminate, and give an emission code for all honda engines. And assured me the pcv doesnt fail often. I still purchased and changed it for peace of mind. Sorry long rant.
Perhaps that is so. Since my check engine light never came on until the van was vibrating/nearly stalled/wouldn’t drive over 10 mph in just not sure I have full faith in the computer. My mechanic said the seals were bad on my PCV valve and it was leaking around the valve. My seals still went bad and leaked - all simultaneously. Something pressurized the system. Dunno …
 
Top