2003 Highlander ... help identify the part that's leaking

[thejon]

Revisiting this. I've only had to add a tiny bit of fluid one time since initially posting this thread. However, the other day, I noticed a couple drips from the passenger side bellow (pic attached). First question is can whatever seal is inside this be replaced DIY? For now, I'm going to drain all the power steering fluid out and replace it with ATF (which is what the vehicle calls for). I've read that some have used Valvoline MaxLife High Milage ATF and it slowed or even stopped some leaks but I don't know if they were talking about the version with stop leak or not. Should I try the Valvoline high mileage ATF WITH stop leak or will the regular version help condition the seals and slow/stop the leak?
I find it hard to believe a product hasn't been invented that can swell the seals without damaging everything else eventually but if that's the case, fine. If not, and if someone knows of a safe and effective product, let me know.

Several questions there, thanks for your time.

 

[D60]

Pic's a little dark -- is that the bellow?

If so, only fix I've ever seen for a leaking rack is a replacement rack. Some guys try to rebuild -- and indeed I'd love to try just to say I did -- but it's a question of time vs money saved. If I were retired it'd be a fun "putter"

In the category of hope springs eternal, try true Dex/Merc as it starts out "thicker" than LV (which is basically VMaL, in simplest terms)

But, the pressures behind a rack seal are significant -- enough to swing your wheels left/right with ease at a standstill. Try with vehicle off to get an idea of just how much hydraulic assist you receive

 

[thejon]

D60: yes, that's the bellow. What's"LV'?

 

[Nukeman7]

Revisiting this. I've only had to add a tiny bit of fluid one time since initially posting this thread. However, the other day, I noticed a couple drips from the passenger side bellow (pic attached). First question is can whatever seal is inside this be replaced DIY?

Any seal can be replaced; however, just by asking this question, it is clear that you don't have the skillset, tools, and experience to attempt this complex task (no insult intended). In fact, replacing the rack and pinion assembly is what a professional repair shop would do since it is much more cost effective to do so than to remove and fully disassemble the unit to replace the seals. I have only rebuilt a power steering rack and pinion assembly once with new seals and it only lasted a year before leaking again. I would not do it again.

For now, I'm going to drain all the power steering fluid out and replace it with ATF (which is what the vehicle calls for). I've read that some have used Valvoline MaxLife High Milage ATF and it slowed or even stopped some leaks but I don't know if they were talking about the version with stop leak or not. Should I try the Valvoline high mileage ATF WITH stop leak or will the regular version help condition the seals and slow/stop the leak?

How do you plan to drain ALL of the PSF? Siphoning out the reservoir will only remove ~60% of the fluid since some of the fluid will be trapped in the hoses and the body of the rack. At this stage, I'm not sure changing the fluid will do much to slow the leak. In fact, fresh PSF (w/out stop leak) might increase the leak rate.

I find it hard to believe a product hasn't been invented that can swell the seals without damaging everything else eventually but if that's the case, fine. If not, and if someone knows of a safe and effective product, let me know.

I have had success in stopping a similar leak in a steering rack on a 2003 Honda Odyssey by adding several ounces of ATP AT-205. That was ~8 years ago and the rack and pinion is still not leaking! I suggest that you try it as a last option to rack replacement. YMMV, but it is worth risking for only $25. Note that it took a few weeks (~500 miles) of driving for the leak to slow and finally vanish.

 

[Nukeman7]

D60: yes, that's the bellow. What's"LV'?

LV is the abbreviation for "Low Viscosity" fluids. That would increase your leak rate.

 

[D60]

Probably much easier to do several exchanges at reservoir, or just try the AT-205 as mentioned.

I'd say at least 50% of vehicles I see have a slightly leaking rack. Most people just live with it (or are oblivious). Sourcing a quality rack is a REAL problem. Never do Cardone -- although I guess First Brands is handling that for us.

The worst I've seen was an '11 Grand Cherokee that would SQUIRT fluid left or right out the rack as you turned. Not surprisingly the low levels trashed the pump, too. I used an OEM rack but it was $1k for the part alone and I had to ship back the old core.

 

[thejon]

Any seal can be replaced; however, just by asking this question, it is clear that you don't have the skillset, tools, and experience to attempt this complex task (no insult intended). In fact, replacing the rack and pinion assembly is what a professional repair shop would do since it is much more cost effective to do so than to remove and fully disassemble the unit to replace the seals. I have only rebuilt a power steering rack and pinion assembly once with new seals and it only lasted a year before leaking again. I would not do it again.

How do you plan to drain ALL of the PSF? Siphoning out the reservoir will only remove ~60% of the fluid since some of the fluid will be trapped in the hoses and the body of the rack. At this stage, I'm not sure changing the fluid will do much to slow the leak. In fact, fresh PSF (w/out stop leak) might increase the leak rate.

I have had success in stopping a similar leak in a steering rack on a 2003 Honda Odyssey by adding several ounces of ATP AT-205. That was ~8 years ago and the rack and pinion is still not leaking! I suggest that you try it as a last option to rack replacement. YMMV, but it is worth risking for only $25. Note that it took a few weeks (~500 miles) of driving for the leak to slow and finally vanish.

No offense taken. I was mainly thinking about my mechanic friend, whether or not it would be cheaper to save on parts but spend more on labor having him replace the seals and the rack and pinion vs savings on labor but spending more for a new part.

As far as draining the fluid, I know I can't get all of the fluid out but there were videos online that show disconnecting the hose to the reservoir and sucking out the fluid that way. **I'm curious how replacing the power steering fluid might increase the leak rate if the ATF is thicker than the PS fluid that's in there ..

I'll research the AT-205... Thanks for the suggestion. 8 years is pretty good with no damage or clogging.
Thanks for the detailed response.

 

[D60]

No offense taken. I was mainly thinking about my mechanic friend, whether or not it would be cheaper to save on parts but spend more on labor having him replace the seals and the rack and pinion vs savings on labor but spending more for a new part.

As far as draining the fluid, I know I can't get all of the fluid out but there were videos online that show disconnecting the hose to the reservoir and sucking out the fluid that way. **I'm curious how replacing the power steering fluid might increase the leak rate if the ATF is thicker than the PS fluid that's in there ..

I'll research the AT-205... Thanks for the suggestion. 8 years is pretty good with no damage or clogging.
Thanks for the detailed response.

If you truly want all the fluid out disco the return and cap at reservoir. Put line in bucket. Start vehicle and keep reservoir fed (probably want a helper). Wait for nice fresh fluid to be fed into bucket.

Note you might almost want three people for this: one to watch bucket, one to feed reservoir, and one in driver seat to turn on/off. Don't run the pump dry if at all possible -- it's very hard on them.

I imagine the reservoir will drop very quickly so the person filling will need to be Johnny on the spot, or turn vehicle off if there's any doubt, refill, start, turn off, refill, start etc

edit: this is a fair bit of work and it's unlikely a "thicker" fluid will do much for your leak

 

[Nukeman7]

As far as draining the fluid, I know I can't get all of the fluid out but there were videos online that show disconnecting the hose to the reservoir and sucking out the fluid that way. **I'm curious how replacing the power steering fluid might increase the leak rate if the ATF is thicker than the PS fluid that's in there ..

If you replace the power steering fluid with a more viscous ATF (esp. with Stop Leak), it probably won't increase the leak rate. I was alluding to replacing the PSF with new, clean identical PSF which could exacerbate the leak by flushing out the particulate contaminants which would tend to clog the leak path.

 

[thejon]

Sourcing a quality rack is a REAL problem.

Man... You ain't lying. Most, if not all, of what's available through local stores (O'Reilly's, NAPA, AutoZone) are remanufactured which have horror stories online. New Toyota OEM is EXPENSIVE. Not sure I can do that. Trying to find a local (OKC) Toyota dealership that has a reman OEM R&P. If you know any decent brands that I can look into let me know..

 

[thejon]

"disco the return and cap at reservoir."

Which on is the return, the lower hose or upper?

"If there's any doubt, refill, start, turn off, refill, start etc"

If the fluid cycles when the car is started, I wonder if I could just empty the reservoir, start the car, turn off, suck the fluid out and repeat a bunch of times without disconnecting any hoses .

Thanks for your help, man.

 

[D60]

Which on is the return, the lower hose or upper?

If the fluid cycles when the car is started, I wonder if I could just empty the reservoir, start the car, turn off, suck the fluid out and repeat a bunch of times without disconnecting any hoses .

Thanks for your help, man.

I'm not familiar with the exact layout here but any return hose is low pressure and will often just use a hose clamp. The other hose is the pressure hose and will be fully crimped, threaded fittings. If it's a standalone reservoir, any hose going to it is low pressure because the reservoir itself isn't under pressure -- it just gravity feeds fluid to the pump (in most layouts with a separate reservoir)

Your suggestion won't really work because you risk running the pump dry. It needs fluid in to produce fluid out, but at some point there's still a good deal of fluid in the lines and the rack itself but cavitation prevents it from being forced through.

 

[thejon]

I'm not familiar with the exact layout here but any return hose is low pressure and will often just use a hose clamp. The other hose is the pressure hose and will be fully crimped, threaded fittings. If it's a standalone reservoir, any hose going to it is low pressure because the reservoir itself isn't under pressure -- it just gravity feeds fluid to the pump (in most layouts with a separate reservoir)

Both hoses have simple hose clamps but I'm thinking this is the one I use to evacuate the old fluid... The smaller one

 

[D60]

Both hoses have simple hose clamps but I'm thinking this is the one I use to evacuate the old fluid... The smaller one

View attachment 328547

Just figure flow direction and pull the one that feeds to the reservoir. Cap that port at reservoir, then you can FILL the reservoir and it will continue to feed the pump

Everything going to the reservoir is "return" or low pressure -- you just have a "splice" or "interruption" in the return hose due to a REMOTE reservoir. Pumps of old had a reservoir bolted right on the back of the pump itself so no need for a "splice" in the singular return hose

 

[thejon]

Just figure flow direction and pull the one that feeds to the reservoir. Cap that port at reservoir, then you can FILL the reservoir and it will continue to feed the pump

Everything going to the reservoir is "return" or low pressure -- you just have a "splice" or "interruption" in the return hose due to a REMOTE reservoir. Pumps of old had a reservoir bolted right on the back of the pump itself so no need for a "splice" in the singular return hose

Last question. I don't think the fluid has ever been changed. Is this a safe method? I've heard that flushing really old fluid can cause leaks because it removes debris and particles that help seal. I don't know if that's just an old wives tale but I thought I would ask before doing this procedure today..

 

[D60]

Last question. I don't think the fluid has ever been changed. Is this a safe method? I've heard that flushing really old fluid can cause leaks because it removes debris and particles that help seal. I don't know if that's just an old wives tale but I thought I would ask before doing this procedure today..

Well I think it goes back to the argument that if your rack is held together with dust and duct tape....it's near death anyway. But I do always see some merit in let sleeping dogs lie. So, your call.....

You can use a power steering fluid with stop leak if you want, or add a p/s stop leak additive of your choosing. I recently got some Cam2 PSF with stop leak for a song on a Gempler's clearance and I'll use it in leaky systems. Will it do much for leaks? I doubt it.

 

[Tempest1]

If you put both front wheels off the ground, you can work the steering wheel back and forth and it will exchange the fluid. No need to start the car. Just put the return hose into a container (seal the inlet at the reservoir) and keep the reservoir full of new fluid.

I have done this personally on an 02 Highlander.

 

[D60]

If you put both front wheels off the ground, you can work the steering wheel back and forth and it will exchange the fluid. No need to start the car. Just put the return hose into a container (seal the inlet at the reservoir) and keep the reservoir full of new fluid.

I have done this personally on an 02 Highlander.

I wondered if that would work. I wasn't sure if you'd get cavitation/air pockets without the pump building pressure, but apparently not