2003 BMW 330Ci 11,000 miles on BMW HP Synthetic 5W-30

[F1Crazy]

Miles on engine: 11,002

Miles on oil: 11,002

Oil: 5W-30 BMW High Performance Synthetic
1/2 qt of make up oil

Lab:Blackstone

Aluminum 8
Chromium 0
Iron 15
Copper 14
Lead 2
Tin 0
Molybdenum 122
Nickel 1
Mn/Ag/Ti 0
Potassium 12
Boron 32
Silicon 10
Sodium 7
Calcium 3437
Magnesium 9
Phosphorus 656
Zinc 709
Barium 5

fuel 0.5
insolubles 0.4

SUS viscosity@210F 67.7

Flashpoint 420

TBN 3.4

The car belongs to a fellow bimmer owner, this is what he wrote

The car was manufactured 12/02, I picked up 2/03, and the oil change was 3/12/04, although the oil service indicator still had about 4K left on it. 40% city driving. I only drive the car on weekends (unfortunately), and about 5.5K of the 11K miles are from 8 days of highway driving. Also, added 1/2 qt. of makeup oil about 1K miles before oil change. Comments are welcome!

 

[F1Crazy]

I forgot to mention that Backstone's only negative comments were the copper and oil viscosity being a little too high.

IMO viscosity is about right, it still is a 30 wt after all. Supposedly the same oil thickened to 69.9 in my car after less than 8K miles and TBN was worse as well. It kind of makes me believe that these cars come with different oil from factory than what dealers use.

I have to say that I would be very happy with these wear numbers, especially during break-in period.

 

[buster]

I don't think Blackstone Labs has a clue about wear and TBN half the time.

If your going to get a UOA done, pay the extra money and get Terry Dyson to look at it. It's worth it.

 

[G-MAN]

This is an incredible UOA.

11,000 miles on the factory fill and the lead after that distance is 2ppm? This is almost unbelievable. And this from one of those "awful" Group III synthetics, and not all highway miles.

I would not have run the factory fill this long, but it doesn't seem to have done any harm to this engine.

 

[quadrun1]

This is an incredible UOA, much better than the 5K UOA on the factory fill of the '03 330xi that I posted here

 

[Chris B.]

quote:

---

Originally posted by buster:
I don't think Blackstone Labs has a clue about wear and TBN half the time.

If your going to get a UOA done, pay the extra money and get Terry Dyson to look at it. It's worth it.

---

Buster, I think BlackStone is probibly one of the better labs and do know what they are doing. Correct me if I am wrong but I don't think Terry Dyson would be working with them if they were not a top lab.

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Chris B.:

quote:

---

Originally posted by buster:
I don't think Blackstone Labs has a clue about wear and TBN half the time.

If your going to get a UOA done, pay the extra money and get Terry Dyson to look at it. It's worth it.

---

Buster, I think BlackStone is probibly one of the better labs and do know what they are doing. Correct me if I am wrong but I don't think Terry Dyson would be working with them if they were not a top lab.

---

What Buster was talking about is Blackstone's interpretation of the data. I made pretty much the same comment about Blackstone's "comments" recently and Terry posted something to the effect of "That's why you should get me to do the interpretation and let them do the testing."

 

[JohnnyO]

I never got a UOA on it, but my dad had a 2000 Beemer, he just traded it in last week, during its 94,000 miles with him he never had to add a drop of oil. It simply didn't use any. The OCI indicator would go off every 15k or so. Part of its break-in was me running it up to 115 mph with 25 miles on it.

 

[crossbow]

This UOA doesn't exactly seem possible.

Technically if it was a brand new engine, there should be craploads of wear metals in the oil right?

Either the oil was changed at a routine dealer visit (without the owner knowing), or bmw completely breaks in the engines before they leave the factory.

Every 5-10k UOA I've seen on this forum (with the same # of miles on the car) has been utterly cluttered with wear metals 3-4x higher then a normal UOA.

 

[vettenuts]

Wow, I dumped the factory fill of my BMW after 3,300 miles and put in Amsoil 5W-30 because of poor UOA's I had seen on the BMW factory fill. Maybe I shouldn't have done that

 

[Chris B.]

Sorry Buster I thought you were refering to Blackstones wear accuracy.

Then again the more you look at this UOA it does really seem impossiable! I'd like to hear what Terry thinks on this one.

 

[Patman]

quote:

---

Originally posted by JohnnyO:

I never got a UOA on it, but my dad had a 2000 Beemer, he just traded it in last week, during its 94,000 miles with him he never had to add a drop of oil. It simply didn't use any. The OCI indicator would go off every 15k or so. Part of its break-in was me running it up to 115 mph with 25 miles on it.

---

Back in 1988 my father bought a 1988 325is and part of it's break in was me putting the car sideways around corners and bumping the rev limiter in the first 3 gears as I sampled that sweet straight six motor. That was my favorite car out of all the cars he's owned so far.

 

[F1Crazy]

quote:

---

Originally posted by crossbow:
This UOA doesn't exactly seem possible.

Technically if it was a brand new engine, there should be craploads of wear metals in the oil right?

Either the oil was changed at a routine dealer visit (without the owner knowing), or bmw completely breaks in the engines before they leave the factory.

Every 5-10k UOA I've seen on this forum (with the same # of miles on the car) has been utterly cluttered with wear metals 3-4x higher then a normal UOA.

---

The car hasn't seen a routine dealer visit and from what the owner said it wasn't up for another 4K miles. AFAIK BMW doesn't break-in their engines but each engine is run and tested at factory and big number of engines is dynoed as part of quality control. These engines take good 15K miles to be fully broken-in but initial break-in is over the first 1,200 miles and calls for not exceeding 4,500 RPMs and 100 MPH.

Keep in mind that we're talking about 7 quart sump here, not 4 or 5 as engine displacement would suggest.

 

[buster]

quote:

---

"That's why you should get me to do the interpretation and let them do the testing."

---

Right, that is what I meant.

 

[crossbow]

The car hasn't seen a routine dealer visit

Did the car, EVER after it was purchased, visit the dealer? For ANY problem.

Virtually all dealers will automatically change the oil and filter if you bring it in, even for recall's, tsb's, or rattles. You have to specifically NOT request to have your oil changed usually.

This UOA just doesn't fit. Either samples got mixed up, or the oil was changed before the sample was taken.

You just don't see that type of low wear in the first drain of an engine freshly broken in. Heck, some car's with engines far smaller then your bmw's have over 75+ iron at 7500 miles (if they let the oil sit in there that long).

Here's an excellent example.

Here's a BMW 330ci, factory fill, 5w-30 (your exact oil) with 4,887 miles on the oil, and 4,887 on the car.
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000696#000000

Note Iron, copper, alumnium, and lead.

Your oil was changed prior to this sample, or the samples got mixed up. Your UOA wear is not from 11k oil in an 11k car.

 

[F1Crazy]

crossbow,
I don't know for sure if the oil was changed or not, it's not my car but I have yet to find BMW dealership that will change the oil unless it's been a year from the last change or the service indicator calls for it. You see, nowadays BMWs come with so called "free" maintenance during warranty period and dealership won't get reimbursed for unauthorized oil change and I doubt owners would want to pay for it.

 

[crossbow]

Aye,

I'm just pointing out this sample didn't have 11,000 miles on it, nor was it the original factory fill. Thats all. I'd check all your recepits to see if a dealer slipped one in so you can figure out how many "actual" miles the oil has on it.

 

[joatmon]

I thought F1Crazy answered it pretty well. BMW dealers almost insist on not changing oil until the indicator tells you to. It's usually 14k - 17k on newer 3.0 liter 6s. They will also change at 1 year, but you have to ask. Chances are that this oil wasn't changed without owners knowledge.

BTW, I dumped oil on 2 BMWs at about 5k in order to put in GC. Why did I do that?

This oil seems to get no respect and it puts up decent numbers. Also, consider the fact that most new BMWs are leased, and with free maintenance, they're getting changed at 15k - 16k on average. Some aren't even getting changed that often. BMWs see redline quite often. And the 2.5 and 3.0 liters are holding together.

Most 3.0 liter engines have a 7 qt. sump. The 3.0 in wife's X5 3.0 is 8 qts. Certainly, this is part of the equation.

BMW syn 5W30 = no respect = gettin' the job done.

 

[joatmon]

I have another thought or two on this subject.

We've got dozens of UOA with 3 or 4k and they look good, and the praise flows. Even Patman's 6k test on GC that looked good is referenced as proving that, "GC sure can go the distance." (No disrespect Patman, just using your UOA as an example.)

We've got some with poor numbers on a UOA and we hear, "it's just cleaning stuff from the previous junk SL oil. You've got to run it 3 or 4 times to really see.

Here's an UOA that goes a fair interval, puts up great numbers, and we hear, "can't be, oil must have been changed without anyone's knowledge. Let's see the receipts to see if one was slipped in, etc, etc."

I don't get it.

 

[crossbow]

joatman,

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000696#000000

Thats why. Same engine, same basic car, half the drain interval on the same oil, yet the 11,000 mile oil has less wear metals? On an original factory break-in oil?

Here's another one. Once again, about half the interval, and more wear.

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000884#000000

I just don't believe that this is the original factory fill. Guess I'm as stubborn as the thicker is better crowd.

[ March 22, 2004, 02:41 PM: Message edited by: crossbow ]