2002 Subaru WRX, 34k miles, M1 5W30

DaveWRX · Aug 4, 2003

My first analysis, which was done by Blackstone:

----
Oil Use Interval: 7,183 mi
Make-Up Oil Added: 0 qts
Fuel Type: Unleaded premium gasoline (93 octane)
Equipment Type: 2.0L Turbo

Comments: Lead (bearings) read fairly high in the initial sample from your Subaru.

Mi on Unit: 34,433

Element: Mine (Avg. for engine type w/4k mi)
Al: 5 (5)
Cr: 1 (1)
Fe: 21 (10)
Cu: 6 (6)
Pb: 33 (3)
Sb: 1 (0)
Mb: 60 (50)
Ni: 0 (0)
Mn: 0 (1)
Ag: 0 (0)
Ti: 0 (0)
K: 1 (2)
B: 104 (102)
Si: 8 (9)
Na: 9 (26)
Ca: 3049 (2290)
Mg: 18 (292)
P: 765 (783)
Zn: 785 (913)
Ba: 0 (0)

Sus Visc. @ 210F: 57.8 (should be 55-62)
Flashpoint: 395F [>365]
Fuel %: Antifreeze: 0.0 [0]
Water: 0.0 [ Insolubles: 0.5 [ ----

So, obviously, lead is high, but other bearing metals are OK. Iron and calcium are high. Sodium and magnesium are low.

Is lead really used in the bearings of modern engines like the WRX's?

Where could the lead be coming from? I've never used any additives. How common is lead-contaminated gas?

What do low magnesium and sodium mean?

Any observations, interpretations, or advice would be appreciated.

My normal change interval is 5k miles.

Jay · Aug 4, 2003

Lead and Iron are both elevated. Lead is used in the main bearings and rod bearings. The other reports on the board for this engine show far less of these elements. How do you drive this car? Is it stock?

[ August 04, 2003, 09:14 PM: Message edited by: Jay ]

Pablo · Aug 4, 2003

Itsa turbo. Need a trend, Fe may be a tad high and I think this engine has produced high Pb numbers in the past. Yes bearing material.

I don't really put much in the Blackstone comparison or their universal average numbers.

Na at 9 is OK, and 26 ppm Na would seem high!

Ca is an additive as is Mg. Ca is generally a good thing

JohnBrowning · Aug 4, 2003

These engines normaly produce much lower numbers then this unless you race them. If this is a daily driver and not abused frequently I would be a bit concerned! I sugest you try a different oil and a shorter OCI to see if this is a trend!

Patman · Aug 4, 2003

It is odd to see such high wear metals in an engine which normally shows extremely low numbers. Silicon is good so it's not caused by dirt from your air intake. At 34k it is fully broken in too.

I agree with John, switch oils and sample it earlier on the next interval.

Spector · Aug 4, 2003

Although I concur that I would try the 10W30 which has shown better results on the UOA on this board I also wish to point out that the trend for this engine may be high lead and it will never come down. Now, how long will the engine last with this lead wear. NO ON KNOWS. I have an engine with lead counts from 10-40 ppm at 7500 intervals for over 10 years and the engine is still running strong. So, only a trend here can help to determine if this is a spike, is it normal etc. And, what no one knows is, if nothing changes how long will the engine last. My vote at least 100,000 plus miles. Also, so what if you go to a 3000 mile interval and cut the numbers in half. You have not reduced wear, it is the same, all you have done is permitted less lead wear particles in the oil by changing sooner and this additional lead does not cause additional wear IMO. Silicon is low. Stop and go heavy foot driving is probably the reason is my guess.

[ August 05, 2003, 08:32 AM: Message edited by: Spector ]

Patman · Aug 4, 2003

quote:

Although I concur that I would try the 10W30 which has shown better results on the UOA on this board I also wish to point out that the trend for this engine may be high lead and it will never come down

If you look at all the WRX UOAs on here though, the trend is that they show extremely low wear numbers, even when almost brand new and barely broken in yet. So this one is definitely higher than average by quite a bit.

Al · Aug 4, 2003

As Spector said-go with the 10W-30 M1. I would go a step further and use one or two quarts of the M-1 15W-50 Mobil 1 with the 10W-30. That will put you in the mid range of a 30 wt (with one quart) and probably close to a 40Wt. with 2 quarts of the 15W-50. That should help your lead numbers. But as Spector indicated-trends are important.

[ August 05, 2003, 10:47 AM: Message edited by: Al ]

Bror Jace · Aug 4, 2003

DaveWRX, I agree with those who said your sample suggests (just suggests, not absolute proof) that you are experiencing greater wear than normal.

The Soobs (including WRXen) we have seen here lately have shown uncannily low engine wear numbers with just about any oil. Not to frighten you, but I think this is the poorest Soob result we've seen to date. And we can't really blame this on break-in, etc ...

Can you give us some info on how you're driving this thing? It looks like you really flog it!

Yes, lead is usually an indicator of bearing shell wear. Every manufacturer is a tad different so you might want to check with bonafide Subaru engine gurus to be sure.

What oil is in the crankcase right now? I assume it's more M1SS 5W30?

Essentially I agree with most other folks. Switching to 10W30 might be in order. Since you live in Tennessee, you should be fine year 'round. Also, I wouldn't go more than 4,000 miles before testing again.

--- Bror Jace

Dave · Aug 5, 2003

Dave posted more info on a Subaru board:

NASIOC Forums - Oil analysis: high lead

quote:

Sorry, I should have included this. I have a foam air filter and ScoobySport muffler. No internal mods. My driving style is probably typical WRX: fast and aggressive. Oil is Mobil 1 5W30. Filter is Subaru.

-Dave

mph · Aug 5, 2003

What materials, besides lead, are used for main bearings?

Pablo · Aug 5, 2003

I cooda sword there was a Turdbo soobie guy with a spreadsheet poasted - the sheeeeet showed relative hi Pb.....lemme search

I went and dun searched - I have NEW theory. When pushed hard this engine looses Pb. The bearing surfaces made of babbit metal (Cu, Pb, Sn and sometimes Sb) give up Pb, Cu and tin under stress. No Sn reading? Mo may help, may not...

[ August 05, 2003, 02:46 PM: Message edited by: Pablo ]

Rexman · Aug 5, 2003

Here is the link to nicrfe1370's Subie spreadsheet:

Subaru UOA's

This is a mix of different models, not just WRX's, but the lead levels on these UOA's are pretty low for the most part.

It does look as if something a little unhealthy is going on with this engine. I agree with the guys so far-- definitely consider cutting back the drain interval to no more than 4K miles with the Mobil (for shear protection) and go with the 10W30. 7K miles is just a little too long for a highly-stressed turbo motor of this nature, especially if it's driven to extract the most driving pleasure possible (as most of us WRX owners are delightedly compelled to do)

Bror Jace · Aug 5, 2003

Stuffed up, eh Pablo?

Take an Advil sinus or something.

--- Bror Jace

Pablo · Aug 5, 2003

Rexman - I agree.

Bror - just havin' some fun wid Anglish.

Seriously though, if you read closely the subie turbo UOA reports where the owner admits to pushing it hard, then Pb is up.

I always find it facsinating to compare turbo makes to my Volvo turbo 10K mile analysis's - I can't remember my Pb levels exactly but they didn't seem high..

sprintman · Aug 5, 2003

How about Redline 5W40 or 10W40 even for this engine??

cangreylegend · Aug 5, 2003

A good candidate for German Elixir.

Patman · Aug 5, 2003

quote:

Originally posted by sprintman:
How about Redline 5W40 or 10W40 even for this engine??

I believe someone posted a report on this engine using a thicker oil and it's wear numbers suffered compared to their same engine on the 30wt oils. So in this case this engine design might do better with an Xw30 oil than an Xw40.

sprintman · Aug 6, 2003

I'm trying to find out what Subaru rec's oil viscosity for WRX's here which are everywhere. Oil vendors sites all say check with dealer.

UberWRX · Aug 6, 2003

quote:

Originally posted by Patman:

quote:

Originally posted by sprintman:
How about Redline 5W40 or 10W40 even for this engine??

Click to expand...

I believe someone posted a report on this engine using a thicker oil and it's wear numbers suffered compared to their same engine on the 30wt oils. So in this case this engine design might do better with an Xw30 oil than an Xw40.

Yep, that would be me.

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000667

But since posting that, much of the angst has worn off. Like I had mentioned, one of the folks at Black Stone said that RL's high moly count can affect other metal counts, including Al. Besides, I do have aftermarket pulleys, a reflashed ECM, and boost the turbo high and frequently. Interestingly, I don't hit redline often.

I'm going to run another 3K interval on RL 5W-40 and post the results. I'll still have a few quarts of the aforementioned left which I'll mix (until it runs out) with RL 5W-30.

Cheers,
UberWRX

2002 Subaru WRX, 34k miles, M1 5W30

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