2002 Lancer 5-speed AMSOil Question/Problem

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Good evening all,

Some of you may recall my post where I replaced the transmission oil in my wife's '02 Mitsu Lancer 5-speed (as well as the diff oil on my '07 Tundra). I used AMSOil MTG, as recommended by AMSOil which meets 75W-90 GL4 required per the manual. Car has 74,000 miles.

I test drove it for about 120 miles across two warm days - 80 deg F or so. I was pleased! Butter-like shifting. My wife even noticed and commented how buttery it was.

Well, this morning, it was about 50 degrees or so. I get a text message about 9am from the wife saying she was having trouble getting into first gear and that it was very hard to shift other gears. I call and get clarification - she didn't need two hands, but noted it was acting difficult, much like our '97 GT Mustang with the abysmal Borg Warner T45 5-speed. As the car warmed up, shift quality improved.

This car has always had poor cold-weather shift quality. On the factory fill, it got very difficult to shift in weather below freezing. I expected MTG would have improved this poor cold weather shifting.

Oil fill/drain plugs still in place and no signs of leaks.

My questions:

1) Is MTG the correct stuff? Are Mitsu Lancer 5-speeds perhaps not perfectly compatible with MTG? Is it too slick, perhaps and she's fighting synchros that won't synchro?

2) Am I incorrect in thinking that MTG should have improved cold weather shift quality?

3) Where do I go from here? Obviously, if she's unhappy at 50 degrees, she'll be unhappy in Winter here when we can see single digits. She'll be hijacking my truck and I'll be driving the Lancer to work!!!
frown.gif
Aaaah! The horror! I'm kidding, of course.

Thanks much,
ben
 
I don't think that transmission really likes 75W-90 oils - even though the OM says so. It doesn't have anything to do with the mystical "too slick"...I would drain or pump out 1 qt of MTG and put in 1 qt of MTF.
 
Pablo knows all the specifics about Amsoil.
It seems to me that it is simply too thick when cold.
since it is very good when hot.
 
Quote:


I don't think that transmission really likes 75W-90 oils - even though the OM says so. It doesn't have anything to do with the mystical "too slick"...I would drain or pump out 1 qt of MTG and put in 1 qt of MTF.




I will try this - anything to keep the wife happy and out of the Tundra!
laugh.gif


Is the MTF GL-4 rated? I didn't see it it when I looked this am at work but I was in a hurry...

Still, I think I could put in a quart of 5w30 engine oil with two quarts MTG and still have GL-4 level of protection...

Any thoughts as to why the AMSOil MTG would offer poorer shift quality when cold than the assumed 75W-90 conventional juice that was in there?

I went down the "too slippery" path as I just couldn't fathom why it worked so well in the warm weather but had worse than stock performance in the cold...

Thanks,
Ben
 
Had the same issue with MTG in my 03 Toyota Matrix. I drained it and put in Redline MT90 (75W90 GL4). No more issues. Same issue/resolution with my 04 Tacoma.
 
Quote:


Had the same issue with MTG in my 03 Toyota Matrix. I drained it and put in Redline MT90 (75W90 GL4). No more issues. Same issue/resolution with my 04 Tacoma.




I hate to dump the AMSOil totally - but this will be my third option if the quart of MTF doesn't fix it.

I've used Redline in the past with good results - '94 Probe, '95 Ranger, and a '97 Mustang. Of course, the Mustang transmission is a junk pile to begin with so it still has issues, but . . .

thanks much,
ben
 
Quote:


Quote:


I don't think that transmission really likes 75W-90 oils - even though the OM says so. It doesn't have anything to do with the mystical "too slick"...I would drain or pump out 1 qt of MTG and put in 1 qt of MTF.




I will try this - anything to keep the wife happy and out of the Tundra!
laugh.gif


Is the MTF GL-4 rated? I didn't see it it when I looked this am at work but I was in a hurry...

Still, I think I could put in a quart of 5w30 engine oil with two quarts MTG and still have GL-4 level of protection...

Any thoughts as to why the AMSOil MTG would offer poorer shift quality when cold than the assumed 75W-90 conventional juice that was in there?

I went down the "too slippery" path as I just couldn't fathom why it worked so well in the warm weather but had worse than stock performance in the cold...

Thanks,
Ben




My only guess is that the conventional juice rapidly shears down to something less than a 90. I think MT's can be quite human feel sensitive. The reason I say this, because I've had people not like Redline MT-90 at all in Toyotas, switch to MTG and love it. Frankly MT-90 is higher viscosity than MTG. I can't say if it's clearances or shearing or wear in in those cases. So it could be a synchro issue!

Anyway MTF has GL-4 level additives.

If the transmission has difficulty at 50°F with MTG, I cannot imagine MT-90 being an improvement. The factory stuff probably did shear rapidly.
 
Maybe it`s like my Z`s manual transmission. i did a few experiements on my old one before I pulled it out. I was getting a hellacious 1st to 2nd gear crunch/grind with the OEM 75W90 GL4. I replaced it with RL MT90 and it didn`t improve at all. I tried RP Max Gear 75W90,still didn`t improve. I then tried RP Synchromax and no more grind/crunch from 1st to 2nd and it had that hot knife through melted butter smoothness when shifting,but I ended up putting MT90 back in it after I was told only use a GL4 gear oil and the gear crunch was back again!

I got a new 5 speed put in my car about a month ago and it has had that 1st to 2nd gear crunch since day one (got a new one sent to me under warranty,just haven`t insalled it yet). Maybe my gear crunch was a lubrication issue from the thick 75W90 weight GL4?
 
Quote:


My only guess is that the conventional rapidly shears down to something less than a 90. I think MT's can be quite human feel sensitive. The reason I say this, because I've had people not like Redline MT-90 at all in Toyotas, switch to MTG and love it. Frankly MT-90 is higher viscosity than MTG. I can't say if it's clearances or shearing or wear in in those cases. So it could be a synchro issue!

Anyway MTF has GL-4 level additives.

If the transmission has difficulty at 50°F with MTG, I cannot imagine MT-90 being an improvement. The factory stuff probably did shear rapidly.




Hi Pablo and gang,

Thanks for the continued good comments here.

Transmission shift feel is extremely human-sensitive. Shame on me; my first thought when my wife called was that she was feeling something that wasn't there. But, I was converted when I felt it myself.

Even though I've had good luck with RedLine, I really want to stick with an AMSOil product. (That recent gear oil white paper sticks in my mind, plus I don't see RedLine offering help and/or supporting this site.)

I just bopped over to AMSOIL, Redline, and the viscosity calculator:

RedLine MT90 - 90.0/15.6 (cP vis at 40/100)
RedLine MTL - 56.2/10.6
AMSOIL MTG - 84.5/14.7
AMSOIL MTF - 47.1/9.6
AMSOIL MTF/MTG 33%/66% mix - 69.6/12.8
AMSOIL SVG - 108/16.4 (tossed in to represent 75W-90)

My thoughts:

* MTF - MTF is very thin! I expect this, it's marketed as a 5w30 not a 75W-90 replacement.
* MTL - MTL is thin! Very far from a typical 75W-90.
* MT90 - Thicker than the MTG in there now, toss this out of the running.
* MTF/MTG mix - Seems to be the "just right" solution.

I could always go to a 66% MTF / 33% MTG mix next if it's still too balky in the cold. Then proceed to an all MTF fill, I guess. I mean heck, Ford fills the Mustang T45's with ATF of all things and they seem to last a reasonable amount of time.

thanks much,
ben
 
The Brookfield viscosity of the MTL is 12,000 @
-40°C, the MT-90 is 32,000 @ -40°C

Look at brookfield viscosity for Amsoil MTG and even MTF and you will se they are thicker then cold compared to Redlines MT90 and MTL which is thicker then hot.
 
Just another comment about Redline. They are not participating here but they are very helpfull if you send them an email.

I have emailed Redline and asked them about theres gearoil 75W90 how it could perform so bad in oxidation test and foaming as Amsoil whitepapper showned. There response was that the fluid must have been moistured in some way.

I also asked them about brookfield test and they are gonna investigate why it was outside spec. There internal testing had it to be at 110000 which is clearly below the limit there it failed. Not so good as SVG but shouldnt fail according to Redline.

As i have understood now Redline will retest gearoil 75W90 and see if the product is so bad as Amsoil test showed in some areas.

Dave at Redline have give me some confident back to Redlines oils.

But about sensitive gearbox. This is true. I have tried many gearlubes and so far the MT90 is working out best. My gearbox isnt speced for MT90. It shall have MTL according to recommendations.

But winter is coming here in Sweden and time will tell how cold properties will be with MT90 and later i will try maybee straight MTG if MT90 sucees during winter.
If not suceed i will have to buy MTF to be mixed with MTG.

Im really looking forward to try out Amsoil products. It is really top notch products.

Pablo, have you forget the email i sent you about freight cost to Sweden.
 
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