2001 Impala won't start?

[JimPghPA]

I just tried to start our 2001 Impala with the 3.4L using the remote start and it would not start. Then I tried to start it with the key and I did not hear the fuel pump operate and the check engine light came on. There was the sound of a relay operating once each time I turned the key to accessories on. It would not crank.

I came back about 30 minutes later and got in the car and turned the key, and heard the fuel pump run until the fuel pressure came up. The car cranked well and started right up.

This is a very well maintained vehicle. Put a new large Interstate battery in it the end of November, and had the starter and alternator rebuilt because they had 58K miles on them. The belt, belt tensioner, and fuel filter have only 15 K miles on them. Running 94 octane Sunoco gas (right now 5/8 of a tank full on the gauge), and Mobil 1 5W30 oil has about 1400 miles on it.

I am wondering if it is something tied to the remote start, or if the vehicle has some other problem?

I am letting it run right now and will take it out for a good drive in a few minutes. I generally do not use gas treatments except for 2 cans of Sea-Foam into a full tank about once every 6 months, and it has been about 3 months since I used Sea-Foam.

Any idea about what might be going on with this vehicle?

I think I will drive it to Advance Auto and get them to check the codes, and then put 2 cans of Sea-Foam in if nothing show on the code reader and then then top off the gas.

Any suggestions would be welcome.

Thanks.

 

[mechanicx]

When it wouldn't crank did you have any electrical power like to the dome light? Did the theft light stay on? I'm thinking the '01 Impala had PasslockII but I can't remember for sure. Maybe someone else knows. If it's PasslockII it should disable the injectors but not the fuel pump or starter. So I'm not sure that the remote start set this problem off. Is it an aftrmarket remote start?

Maybe a poor connection at the battery or an ignition switch that is acting up? When you turned the ignition to run did you get all of your warning lights to come on for self test? And did the starter turn or no?

 

[camaro10]

Your Impala does have passlock. If the remote start is an aftermarket deal it can cause a conflict with the passlock system. Here is the deal, the operating systems on these vehicles use low voltage circuits as data and reference. Any disruption in the flow of electrons will cause problems.
A good number of systems that are installed use wirenuts,scotch locks and cheap butt connectors to hook the system wiring into the voltage sensitive wiring to the factory components (especially to the PCM and BCM).
When the integrity of the wire is compromised by non-approved methods, this creates a voltage drop across the connector. The module is looking for a predetermined voltage change from the data sensor..if the voltage change is different than desired, then the module disables the system..(the module thinks someone is stealing your car!)
The car manufactors have developed certain wire repair techniques to prevent unwanted voltage drops on critical circuits.
These are the only approved methods and all GM techs that are involved with wiring repairs should be trained on the procedures.

If it's an aftermarket remote start, hopefully you, or whoever installed it soldered the wires and used srinkwrap or even better used complete new wiring (of the proper guage). Passlock is a good system but is freakish to small changes in electrical voltage/current. Sometimes these problems don't show up until years later as the wiring ages or is compromised. Hope you got 'er done my friend.

 

[crazyoildude]

if that was the case the yellow security light would be blinking..

 

[JimPghPA]

The remote start was already added to the vehicle when we purchased it used with 32K on it in 2004.

It probably uses wire nuts from what I can remember seeing when I looked at the wiring in 2004 after we bought it. I do remember that the enable switch just hung in mid air once you remove the cover below the dash. I taped the wiring on the switch and neatened it up. It is too cold to work on it now. When the weather warms up I will solder and tape (with good 3M tape) all of the connections for the remote start.

I talked to two older men who work at Advance Auto and one of them said that the remote might of gone into a anti-theft lock out on a failed start. When I initially did the remote start I was in the house and only saw the tail light blink to verify that it received the command to do the start. I did not hear or see how the vehicle processed the initial remote start attempt.

BTW at Advance Auto the code check showed no code.

The passlock explanation makes sense, and is probably what is going on. I did not know about passlock. Thanks.

When I entered the vehicle and turned the key it seamed like all the dash light initially lit, there might have been a yellow security message for a very short time, there was the sound of a relay operating and most of the dash lights went out. I wish I had been looking for the security message, I am not sure because other dash lights came on and I was listing for the fuel pump that I did not hear, but I did hear a relay operate somewhere under the driver side dash. Then most of the dash lights shut down except the check engine emblem with the check engine message. There was no sound of the fuel pump and the starter would not crank at all. The interior light seamed to be normal brightness. I should have turned on the head lights and blown the horn to put a lager load on the battery connections to tests them. Hind sight is always 20-20, If it does it again I will check that.

The vehicle seams to work fine with the key now. If I can get it to act up with the remote start again I will pay more attention for a yellow security message.

Thanks for the information.

Does anyone know how long the system takes to reset once it goes into the passlock anti-theft lock out? I know a remote start runs for 15 minutes and then shuts down if you do not put a key in. Just wondering if the passlock lock out is also 15 minutes. I did not time exactly how long it was before I went back to the vehicle and tried it and it worked.

Thanks again.

 

[mechanicx]

I think the Passlock theft deterent resets after 10 mins. Advance Auto cannot pull the codes relevant to Passlock, just engine codes. Based on what you've said and that Passlock II doesn't disable the starter, I think the issue was with the remote start and/or wiring to the starter.

 

[JimPghPA]

As soon as it is warm enough I will solder all those wires.

I did not know about Passlock.

I looked on google about Passlock and found "AutoBeef" and many post about Passlock.

One post said there are six small metal contact switches in the key sensor and the system senses the order of these six switches closing. They took out the switch and cleaned these contacts and the system now works fine. I have a great electric contact cleaner called "Corrosion X" that is used for jet aircraft connectors. I could put that on any contacts that require improvement in operation.

One post said there are two hall effect sensors and they sense the key.

One post said there is a preset resistance and something about the BCM module and the other module it communicates with. There are several post about people paying hundreds of dollars to get ignition switch or BCM module or the other module replaced only to have the problem come back again and again.

There are post about reprogramming the unit to recognize the key.

There is one post by a woman who says every time her car acts up she opens the hood and pours water on the relay pack and it starts every time after that.

I am thinking that if the problem still exists after I solder the wires I should start by using Corrosion X electric contact on all the electric contacts I can find that are related to the ignition switch.

Fortunately the only time this problem happened was the one recent incident when I used the remote start. If it continues to be related to the remote start that would not be as bad as the people who have the problem of not having the key work and having to wait 10 minutes when they are not at home.

 

[JimPghPA]

Found this on another BITOG post.

Purchase a Passlock II bypass module from any of the aftermarket remote start makers to splice in, set it and forget it! They are simple to install.

Also one said:

"if you were so inclined, you could just bypass it entirely by using resistors wired in place of the ones inside the ignition switch. (You must measure the ones in the ignition switch with a multimeter and then use a resistor of the same value).

That's how remote start systems are wired in these cars."

Sound like the last thing one should do is to take a vehicle with this type of a problem to a dealer. There are many post on AutoBeef about people spending 400 to 1000 dollars several times for one vehicle and still not getting the problem fixed.

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: JimPghPA
As soon as it is warm enough I will solder all those wires.

I did not know about Passlock.

I looked on google about Passlock and found "AutoBeef" and many post about Passlock.

One post said there are six small metal contact switches in the key sensor and the system senses the order of these six switches closing. They took out the switch and cleaned these contacts and the system now works fine. I have a great electric contact cleaner called "Corrosion X" that is used for jet aircraft connectors. I could put that on any contacts that require improvement in operation.

One post said there are two hall effect sensors and they sense the key.


The last bolded sentences is basically correct. The sensors are built into the key cylinder, there is a key cylinder and an ignition switch connect to the cylinder. Inserting the proper key for the lock and rotating the key creates the resistance value that matches what the BCM is looking for.

Quote:
One post said there is a preset resistance and something about the BCM module and the other module it communicates with. There are several post about people paying hundreds of dollars to get ignition switch or BCM module or the other module replaced only to have the problem come back again and again.


Yes the key cylinder has preset resistance and if it matches what's stored in the BCM the BCM sends a code to the PCM to enable the injectors. Fixing the Passlock can get very expensive and the cyclinder can act up again in the future. There is a procedure to bypass passlock all together.

Quote:
There are post about reprogramming the unit to recognize the key.


The BCM I think will reprogram after 3 consecutive attemps to start the vehicle with the key.


Quote:
There is one post by a woman who says every time her car acts up she opens the hood and pours water on the relay pack and it starts every time after that.


Her problem is probably some other relay like the fuel pump relay and not Passlock related. This is a very stupid way to get your car started. Some people blame every problem on the Passlock.


Quote:
I am thinking that if the problem still exists after I solder the wires I should start by using Corrosion X electric contact on all the electric contacts I can find that are related to the ignition switch.


Sounds like a good idea to dig into improving the connections of the remote start. Also cleaning the ignition cylinder with electrical cleaner is a good idea. You can probably just spray elecrtical cleaner into the ignition cylinder and work the cylinder with the key (might be a good idea to unhook the battery so as not to confuse the passlock) and not have to take the cylinder all apart.


Quote:
Fortunately the only time this problem happened was the one recent incident when I used the remote start. If it continues to be related to the remote start that would not be as bad as the people who have the problem of not having the key work and having to wait 10 minutes when they are not at home.




I don't think your problem is the passlock. I think your problem was caused by the remote start. As I said earlier, passlock II doesn't disable the starter. Most likely the remote start disabled the starter for some reason.

 

[JimPghPA]

Mechanicx, thank you for the information.

The Corrosion X is a great product, but one time when I used it when it came in contact with a plastic it made an awful smell. I still use it when I really want to get any electrical connection to be reliable, but I always make sure to only get it on the contacts. I would have to remove all parts to treat them with Corrosion X to insure it did not come in contact with any plastic.

Modern vehicles like our 2001 Impala make me glad I held onto my 1985 Olds Delta 88 Royale 2DR with the 5.0L, now with 161K miles. The only thing besides normal maintenance that vehicle requires is to replace the pick-up coil on the distributor every 50K miles before the thin wire from it breaks from being flexed every time the vacuum advance operates. I know the carb is computer controlled but it is darn reliable.

Thanks again.