2 Stroke oil trial in VW PD engines

[riggaz]

After hearing about good results from people using 2T oils in diesels including one farmer who fixed his John Deere Combine injector problem with it(despite using the usual selection of fuel system cleaners) I thought I'd give it a trial in a couple of our cars.

I changed the oil out of our 2006 VW Golf 2.0 TDiPD twin cam for Quantum Platinum 5w-40 (oil had only been in there for 5000 miles)

My brother has recently bought a 2002 VW Golf 1.9TDiPD so we also changed the oil out for Quantum Platinum 5w-40 as well

his was only giving about 40mpg but since he's been adding 2 stroke oil it has gradually gone up to 45 - 50 mpg, he also said that it starts much better than it did. There is obviously a problem with his engine in the background causing the poor mpg but the 2 stroke oil seems to be doing good things.

Ours is doing the usual anecdotal things like running smoother and quieter with very slightly better bottom end torque but the main thing has been the reduction in diesel particulates coming out the back, no more cloud of soot after a long period of gentle driving and then giving it a mouthful

The oil has 3000 miles on it now and is still grey and not black.

I have to say I'm liking it so far. There are a few rules of thumb

1, low ash, ultra low ash or zero ash 2T oil must be used so you don't damage the CAT or the DPF with the zinc

2, mineral or semi synthetic oil only as the synthetic oils usually survive combustion whereas mineral and semi synthetic oils burn clean, again to protect your cat and DPF. I use semi synthetic just for the lower pour point compared to the mineral

3, 200:1 seems to be the general dosage added to the tank prior to refuelling to aid mixing

might be worth a try

best regards

Riggaz

 

[suspiciousmind]

I might add a little to the Yanmar in my Deere.....at 200:1, what could it hurt?

 

[bullwinkle]

Any chance of a link to the Deere injector fix? I'm curious because I still use 2T in the old Stanadyne IP IDI engines.

 

[riggaz]

It worked well in the John Deere combine

I think the thing with 2T oil is it's designed to be a great lubricant in small doses and it's also designed to keep the fuel system clean, even during long periods of intermittent use

There also seems to be something more than that which makes the fuel burn cleaner as it massively reduces carbon deposits in variable vane turbos, EGR valves and throttle bodies when used long term and in my case carbon deposits in the oil. There's also many, many reports of engines fitted with DPF's doing half the amount of DPF regenerations than they used to without it.

I'd defo look into it, this is a copy and paste job but...

Mercedes Benz conducted, in 2007, a long distance reliability test with a number of Mercedes E-Class 320 CDi's from Paris to Beijing. Due to the fact that the diesel quality in Eastern European Countries, Russia and China did not meet the DIN requirements, and Mercedes did not want to take the risk of their engines failing due to poor quality fuel, the total tour was accompanied by diesel tanks to re-fuel the cars. Selected members of the Mercedes clientele could apply to participate in selected parts of this test-tour, and advocates and notaries had to certify the correctness of this long term reliability test.
Although Mercedes does not like it published or made public, it is a fact that the diesel-fuel used for this test did contain 2-stroke oil to grease the high pressure pump components and to keep the engines clean during this marathon



Regards

Riggaz

 

[jrustles]

Interesting results, and thank you for posting.

3200:1 and still noticeably effective? That's impressive. Should lean out my dosage methinks.

 

[riggaz]

Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
Any chance of a link to the Deere injector fix? I'm curious because I still use 2T in the old Stanadyne IP IDI engines.


It wasn't an internet story but a friend of a friend thing so no link unfortunately

Stanadyne actually know about poor quality diesel problems which is why they produce their own fuel additives

I'll let you know how I get on but it looks good so far

 

[scurvy]

Originally Posted By: jrustles
3200:1 and still noticeably effective? That's impressive. Should lean out my dosage methinks.


200:1 was the ratio posted. The leading three and comma are making it the third item on a list.

 

[riggaz]

Originally Posted By: jrustles
Interesting results, and thank you for posting.

3200:1 and still noticeably effective? That's impressive. Should lean out my dosage methinks.


smirk, it's number 3, 200:1

3200:1 has got to be a bit of a mission to do at the pump

"just a quick splash and dash dear, won't be long"

30 mins later he's still doing the long division

 

[jrustles]

Originally Posted By: scurvy
Originally Posted By: jrustles
3200:1 and still noticeably effective? That's impressive. Should lean out my dosage methinks.


200:1 was the ratio posted. The leading three and comma are making it the third item on a list.
Originally Posted By: riggaz
Originally Posted By: jrustles
Interesting results, and thank you for posting.

3200:1 and still noticeably effective? That's impressive. Should lean out my dosage methinks.



smirk, it's number 3, 200:1

3200:1 has got to be a bit of a mission to do at the pump

"just a quick splash and dash dear, won't be long"

30 mins later he's still doing the long division

Thanks
Didn't realise OP was making bullet points with commas

 

[bigjl]

I dosed up the Clio and it no longer makes the squealing sound when you lift off the throttle.

Not just with 2 stroke but also with decent quality, Wynns, fuel injector and fuel system cleaner.

I think it was caused by carbon build up or some other deposit causing the variable vanes to stick or change position slower therefore making the sound.

There was never any fault codes apart from the usual glow plug code that seems that showed up during the cold weather when the vehicle was struggling to turn over when cold probably due to me having 10w40 Maxlife in there, even before the cold weather started it was slightly slower to turn over first thing.

Went back to Mobil 1 0w40 New Life and it started to turn over much faster, lesson learned, Maxlife 10w40 is a little to thick for this little 1.5 dci!

Might look into a reasonably priced 5w40 Maxlife product at a later stage.

But for now the little Clio Dci is back to running quietly and without any squeals.

I am not going to continue to add 2 stroke on every tank but I fully intend to add some once a month to help keep things clean.

I know some will say there is no solid proof, but there is an awful lot of anecdotal evidence to support the use of 2 stroke.

And also the Mercedes use of 2 stroke is believed to be factual.

I don't think you will get huge increases in power or economy just due to the 2 stroke I think the benefits are that it cleans things up this enabling the vehicle to run better.

The caveat with that is that certain engines do tickover more quietly and perform better on 2 stroke, the 2.0 tdci 130 bhp engine fitted to the mk3 Mondeo and X Type Jaguar is one such engine. I don't know what it does but I had comments regarding my car running smoother and quieter from work mates that had no idea I had done anything.

At the end of the day it is designed to clean and lubricate.

Perhaps somebody with more knowledge on the subject can explain in more detail.

I do know a study was done that showed improved lubricity, but it was beaten by Bio Diesel.

 

[riggaz]

I do know a study was done that showed improved lubricity, but it was beaten by Bio Diesel.

Pound for pound bio diesel can't match 2T oil for wear protection, also you have to really use fuel filters that are designed for use with bio diesel as it can react badly with some of the glues/adhesives that are used in the fuel filters.

Bio diesel also produces 11% less energy than petroleum diesel and performs badly when it's cold so it has it's bad points, the main bad point about bio diesel is that it's a net energy loss as it consumes so many resources to produce it. All around the world rainforests are being cut down for bio diesel production and good arable land is being hovered up for the same reason rather than feeding people!

I don't entertain bio diesel on moral grounds....as you may have already guessed

 

[bigjl]

The simple fact is that in a test of lubricity you get a bigger improvement in lubricity with bio than you do with 2stroke.

Can't find the link to it but it was a proper scientific study.

As far as I am aware most if not all diesel on the forecourts in the UK contains up to 5% biodiesel at the moment.

I believe Morrisons diesel contains a little more, the figure of 8% seems to ring a bell

As car as the chopping down of rain forests to support BioDiesel production I think you will find that is more relevant to the US.

And I agree that is not the most economically viable way to produce Bio diesel, however if the bio is manufactured from waste cooking oil then it is better for the environment than throwing it in landfill.


Not sure where you have your info on fuel filters not being compatible with bio diesel, never heard of that in modern diesels, I think all diesels since 2001 have had to be compatible with bio at lower percentages.

Citroen for example have given warranty approval for 25/30% bio to be used in the C6's owned by an environmentally friendly Private Hire Co in London.

Lots of people use 100% Bio these days with few problems apart from the need to change the fuel filter a few times when starting to increase the percentages beyond the usual 5%, this is due to the cleaning effects of Biodiesel.

 

[phlfly]

So let me repeat again you are adding 2T oil to diesel fuel at the pump in ratio 200:1?
Is it right?

 

[bigjl]

That correct.

 

[phlfly]

So is it safe to on 2012 VW TDi with DPF?

 

[bigjl]

I have read articles that state it helps the Dpf to regenerate easier and at lower temperatures.

However I have an '08 Pathfinder with a Dpf and I wouldn't risk it, I do use a proper Dpf cleaner that you add to the tank.

But DPF's can be a fickle mistress and I would err on the side of caution.

I suppose it is a case of "All Heart" in Hankock, somebody just has to go first!

 

[Shannow]

I use the Valvoline semi syn TCW-3, and can guarantee that it mixes quickly even if added after.

I've got a 20L Jerry can in the back of the Nissan so if I get a great deal on diesel ($1.40/L or lower), I'll grab another 20. Adding the blue two stroke, you can see it spread on the way down the can. Within a couple hours, it's all mixed.

 

[tdi-rick]

I can't help but reply as I keep reading this sort of stuff on boards, particularly the "only use mineral oils as the syns survive combustion.." and "two stroke is magic, it fixed xyz.."

Apart from me strongly believing it's pure placebo on the fixing/running/mileage thing, the only thing I can see a two stroke oil helping is pump and maybe injector lubrication in a mechanically injected diesel that uses a VE style pump, and it maybe of some help in a unit injector style system.
I've done the two stroke oil thing ten years ago in two different diesels and the mileage thing + perceived power including timed runs up hills didn't change.

BTW, I have to pose the question, in a two stroke which oils burn the cleanest ?

Yep, the ester based syns.

Why would anyone think an old fashioned FB or no rated oil would burn more cleanly ?
The only oils that can meet the JASO FD detergent/clean spec are synthetic oils.

In the best dedicated diesel additive lube/cleaners/fuel stabilisers, eg Redline RL2 or RLI's diesel additive only ester oils are used.

If you want to use a two stroke oil purely for system lubrication, I'd be using a JASO FC/FD oil but in reality it isn't needed, ULSD fuels have oils to aid lubricity added at the terminal, and if I'm going to use anything at all I'll use a fair dinkum diesel additive like RL2.

Flame away

 

[riggaz]

Originally Posted By: phlfly
So is it safe to on 2012 VW TDi with DPF?


low ash or ashless 2T oil is needed for DPF's for obvious reasons but yeah should be fine

it's the same engine as mine apart from yours is common rail and mine is unit injector

 

[riggaz]

Originally Posted By: tdi-rick
I can't help but reply as I keep reading this sort of stuff on boards, particularly the "only use mineral oils as the syns survive combustion.." and "two stroke is magic, it fixed xyz.."

Apart from me strongly believing it's pure placebo on the fixing/running/mileage thing, the only thing I can see a two stroke oil helping is pump and maybe injector lubrication in a mechanically injected diesel that uses a VE style pump, and it maybe of some help in a unit injector style system.
I've done the two stroke oil thing ten years ago in two different diesels and the mileage thing + perceived power including timed runs up hills didn't change.

BTW, I have to pose the question, in a two stroke which oils burn the cleanest ?

Yep, the ester based syns.

Why would anyone think an old fashioned FB or no rated oil would burn more cleanly ?
The only oils that can meet the JASO FD detergent/clean spec are synthetic oils.

In the best dedicated diesel additive lube/cleaners/fuel stabilisers, eg Redline RL2 or RLI's diesel additive only ester oils are used.

If you want to use a two stroke oil purely for system lubrication, I'd be using a JASO FC/FD oil but in reality it isn't needed, ULSD fuels have oils to aid lubricity added at the terminal, and if I'm going to use anything at all I'll use a fair dinkum diesel additive like RL2.

Flame away

Well, it was a head chemist at an oil company that told me that mineral 2T oil burns better than a full synthetic, it also has better cushioning and adheres tenaciously to the engine better during intermittent use so protecting them from corrosion rather than draining away like synthetics do. By burning cleaner I mean less oil going down the exhaust pipe rather than keeping the engine cleaner, the trouble with mineral oil in a 2 stroke is that it cokes more than a full synthetic. Real world comparisons in karting have proven him to be correct as, with the semi synthetic, we no longer have oil coming out of our exhaust port and don't have to strip the power valve down and clean it all the time but to be fair that's for spark ignition, under compression ignition maybe it's a different story.

I think the main benefit is the reduction in emissions and soot, which is nothing to do with the placebo effect, at our garage we specialise in Skoda which is a VW product and the amount of sooted/gummed up turbo chargers and egr valves we see are pretty high. UK fuel is not good quality despite what you might believe and supermarket fuel is the worst of them (I know what you are going to say, all fuel comes from the same place, true..ish but the additive pack is different between brands and the base fuel spec is different) most variable vane failures we see are people that use supermarket fuel. 2 stroke oil won't clean a DPF, EGR valve or turbo but halving the amount of soot keeps them clean and it will clean and lubricate all fuel pumps and injectors.

We deal with all makes despite being a Skoda specialist and still see plenty of common rail pump and injector failures due to excessive wear caused by modern diesel fuel. Stanadyne, who are a reasonably big player in the industry, make their own fuel additives to combat this problem. All fuel is made to a price, the bottom line comes first, usually at the expense of our engines!

best regards

Riggaz