2 cycle premix oils, the best vs the cheap 2013

[dareo]

Please don't beat me for starting another 2 cycle oil thread!

I have been searching around a lot to find out more about a few topics in this area like:

My Robin/Snapper wants 32:1, my new collection of Kawasaki handhelds ask for 50:1
Can i run 32:1 in all? What could this do to my new Kawasaki fleet? Would a 40:1 in between mix be best for everything? Some Robin manuals indicate 50:1, some indicate 32:1.
Some people say the 50:1 ratios were more influenced by EPA/Emissions than what is really best for the equipment.

Some people say the ratio varies with the quality of oil used. Right now i like the price/availability of the wal-mart 8 ounce universal 2 cycle oil. I figure the walmart stuff will be good for break in at least.

The Kawasaki fleet: a KEL27B trimmer, KL300HA blower, KTFR27A trimmer. All with the same 26.3cc engine, all BNIB clearance buys. The snapper/robin mower is just a secondary mower for when i really want vacuum the lawn or experience the 2 cycle glory. I use this stuff once a week on 6 lawns, so there's not a lot of oil to be used up, so the $$ per quart is not such a factor as the overall performance. I can get 88 octane non-ethanol gas to use too. This summer is my first foray into the world of 2 cycle engines.

One final question about 2 cycle oils: Would it be a good idea to use a very small amount in regular 4 cycle engines like the Briggs 8.75 on my Timemaster? like 200:1 or 500:1 just to combat corrosion in the carb or something like that? Or would that just dirty things up?

Thank you all for your quality insightful posts!

 

[Quattro Pete]

Others may disagree, but based on my research, the ratio depends on the oil that you use. Another words, if a particular 2-cycle oil's instructions say to mix it 50:1, then that's how you should be mixing it, regardless of your equipment.

I say this based on the two Stihl devices that I have: a blower and a trimmer. They don't specify any particular ratio. All they say is that if you're using the Stihl oil, then it should be mixed in a 50:1 ratio.

Some oils are more concentrated than others, hence the difference in ratios.

 

[FowVay]

My recipe for excellent results and NEVER having worn out a piece of 2-cycle OPE is to ALWAYS use a JASO FD or ISO-L-EGD rated 2-cycle oil at a 32:1 ratio.

Brand doesn't seem to make much difference as long as the mentioned standards are met. Cheap "non-rated" oils are straight from the devil's spawn. And when a company can't spell the standards correctly it is unlikely that their product meet them.

 

[IndyIan]

I use Esso Easy Mix at ~36:1 with 91 octane non-ethanol gas in everything. Snowmobiles, lawnboy mower and trimmer, stihl fs86 brush cutter, husky 372xp saw, YZ250. The 372 has been chopping up a 44" Ash tree, so its getting a good work out with long long fully buried bar cuts.
Easy Mix is OK to 100:1 if the engine manufacturer calls for it, so I feel fine for using 36:1 instead of the 32:1 the lawnboys call for.

 

[Donald]

Use premix. Quality oil and gas.

 

[Phishin]

I agree with Quattro....If the engine calls for 50:1, and you use a decent certified oil, it obviously is safe is to run at 50:1. But if you use a real high-end synthethic oil, like Maxima, Redline, Torco, Klotz, Motul, etc. you can push it out to 75 or 100:1.

 

[MichiganMadMan]

Originally Posted By: FowVay
My recipe for excellent results and NEVER having worn out a piece of 2-cycle OPE is to ALWAYS use a JASO FD or ISO-L-EGD rated 2-cycle oil at a 32:1 ratio.

Brand doesn't seem to make much difference as long as the mentioned standards are met. Cheap "non-rated" oils are straight from the devil's spawn. And when a company can't spell the standards correctly it is unlikely that their product meet them.


^THIS!!!

 

[Tdbo]

I was told by the Shop that I purchased both my Toro 2 cycle snow blower and my Echo 2 cycle string trimmer from, use Echo 2 cycle oil 50:1 in everything. Works great in all my 40:1 and 32:1 OPE, and it is great to not have 3 different cans anymore.

 

[tig1]

I use Amsoil Saber in my Echo weed wacker. Easy starts, little smoke, engine runs great, and would use it in any 2 cyle engine.

 

[chad8]

50-1 jaso FD(even some FC) synthetic or semi in everything. Brand doesn't really matter. If it meets the certification and the manufacturer or distributer puts it on the label , its good oil.
Echo , Husqvarna, Motul, Amsoil, Stihl, and even craftsman all have FC-FD oils blended for them .These are great air cooled high reving , low smoke , low ash , oil.

 

[Tom_T]

I have run 32:1 mix in all of my equipment for years without problems. The Lawnboys' spec this mixture. Owners manuals for my 3 pieces of Tanaka equipment spec 50:1 to 25:1 "only for the state of California use 50:1". The Maruyama manual for the blower I have specs 50:1, but the manual for this same engine in Australia calls for 25:1. None of this equipment is over 8 years old. I believe the EPA has pressured the manufacturers to lean out the oil mix to barely tolerable. I do believe oil has improved over the years but just in fractions, not multiples.

I have no scientific evidence to back this philosophy up, but rather I draw from my experience in corporate decision making.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Donald
Use premix. Quality oil and gas.

Who sells premix? I've never seen it around here.

 

[tdi-rick]

Bloody [censored].

The difference in mix ratios revolves around the BMEP of the engine.

Air cooled Karts still use 16-20:1, water cooled karts and GP road race bike type water cooled engines 20-32:1, GP MX bikes 32:1-40:1.

The only reason you can get away with leaner mix ratios in OPE equipment is that while air cooled they don't generate the internal heat and pressures of race machines.
You will still get longer life by increasing the mix ratio and opening the HS screw slightly for the leaner mix ratio.

Interestingly Stihl dealers here in Australia have found that 660 and up saws have significantly less bore and ring wear with 32:1 over 50:1 mix ratios, and Husky will refuse warranty on the 395 and 3120XP saws unless you use 32 or 25:1 mix ratios.
Harder timber and much longer time spent in the cut here than Europe and NA.

JASO FB/C/D oils use solvents to allow use in oil injector setups and allow easy mixing for pre-mix.
Their kinematic viscosities are usually around 7-9cSt @ 100*C with low flash points (indicating the solvents)

Straight race oils are usually 14-20cSt @ 100*C with much higher flash points indicating little to no solvents used.

32:1 or 40:1 in this fella's OPE using premium (non rated) race oils with no increase in carbonisation, but none of my two strokes are stock either.

 

[bvance554]

I use the 'universal' two stroke oil i buy at Lowes. I don't know the brand. I've used it in a few machines with varying ratios for a few years with no issues.

 

[dareo]

Thank you for the input tdi-rick. I always find recommendations from outside the US (EPA) influence to be highly beneficial. I'd buy amsoil if i could get it via amazon prime or a free shipping ebay buy it now type purchase. Dear Amsoil: This is 2013, people are spoiled and lazy, they want to buy stuff in a few clicks with their amazon account and have it show up in 2 days for free.

I can get 2 gallons of gas, mix in the 8 ounces bottle of supertech and fill the snapper's half gallon tank up with 32:1. Then i can add a some more gas to the can and have a mix closer to 40:1 for the other tools. The Kawasaki tools won't be ran full bore for a long time so i'm thinking i might be over oiling at 32:1, but 50:1 on super tech seems lean.

I will end up with about 2.4 gallons of fuel for a total cost of 10 bucks, in one can, with two ratios.

 

[tdi-rick]

In all honesty, with something like a whipper snipper, 50:1 on a decent JASO FD oil is fine.

Stihl's Ultra, Amsoil Sabre, Echo Powerblend, etc are all fine oils for low BMEP two stroke engine use.
A good syn scooter oil would be fine in use too.
With saws I really do like 40:1 at a minimum, but I tend to use my gear hard too.

Just be aware some very good syn two stroke oils can be extremely aggravating in use, eg Castrol's excellent Power 1 Racing TTS is a an eye burning headache maker for me.
It really does make me ill.

These days I just use Motul 800 2T. (I'd happily use Silkolene Pro SX, M1 Racing 2T, etc too)
No JASO rating as it's a straight racing oil but minimal carbon build up in use, the exhaust fumes are fine and it smells like bananas when mixing !

 

[123Saab]

50:1 Premix.

As I cant get ethanol free gas where I live.

Besides it makes my life easy and all my 2-stroke OPE runs great on it.

I use TruFuel and Husqvarna Premix.

 

[Sequoiasoon]

Where do all the marine TCW3 rated oils play into this? All the vehicle threads adding to fuel etc for extra lubrication, clean burn etc.

I read one article that said the TCW3 don't lubricate at high temps as well as others.

 

[chad8]

tc-w3

Marine engines are water cooled and do not heat up nearly as hot as air cooled.
The oil is heavier and the ad pack is quite different.
You can use an FD oil in an outboard, but do not use tc-w3 in any air cooled motor unless you like buying new equipment.
The bearings do not get lubricated properly .

 

[Panzerman]

The TCW oil leaves behind a lot of hard carbon too. Iv e tore down several engines, that the owners ran outboard oil in and they had stuck rings and a lot of carbon issues. I really don't understand the idea of running the leanest ratio. You could run your car on 3 qts of oil instead of 5, but why? I run all my equipment at 32:1. 40:1 if its full synthetic. more oil will cause some smoke, but that's about it. I will never understand the 100:1 people.