2 Cycle Oil Questions

[T120]

Looking at the crankcase, i would be wondering if the fins were partially blocked and you had an overheating prob.
No sign of detonation on crown, but that oil has got really hot. With all that oil/carbon on the gudgeon, it looks like the machine has run at less than full throttle for a while
But it's always hard diagnosing when you're not first on the scene

 

[Cujet]

Here is what TCW3 does to a Echo SRM-225 that specifies a JASO FD oil. The ring is partially stuck and the exhaust port is nasty i got this trimmer from a LCO in my area that ran quicksilver outboard oil in everything.

That particular model has a known carb tuning issue. The problem there may not be related to the type of oil used. Additionally, it is a 50 hour engine, not the same version as the commercial 300 hour Echo engines. Was the ring stuck with carbon, or was it an overheated piston that grabbed the ring?

In the case of OPE 2 strokes, many people do not spend the time to warm them up for 30 seconds or so.

But any way you slice it, I prefer EG-D or FC-FD oils.

 

[jake wells]

That particular model has a known carb tuning issue. The problem there may not be related to the type of oil used. Additionally, it is a 50 hour engine, not the same version as the commercial 300 hour Echo engines. Was the ring stuck with carbon, or was it an overheated piston that grabbed the ring?

In the case of OPE 2 strokes, many people do not spend the time to warm them up for 30 seconds or so.

But any way you slice it, I prefer EG-D or FC-FD oils.

this engine is rated at 300 hours the carb tune was fine the oil was quicksilver tcw3.

 

[Cujet]

this engine is rated at 300 hours the carb tune was fine the oil was quicksilver tcw3.

I've been wrong before, so don't hold me to this, but I thought the Echo 300 hour engines had dual rings and the 50 hour engines had a single ring.

 

[jake wells]

I've been wrong before, so don't hold me to this, but I thought the Echo 300 hour engines had dual rings and the 50 hour engines had a single ring.

My 300 hour echo srm 2320t has one ring.

 

[revhead_ozzy]

To answer your questions, in this situation the ISO-GD would be the same as ISO-L-EGD rating. The mix ratio isn't quite as critical as it's made out to appear but for peace of mind you could mix all of your equipment at 40:1 to ensure you're getting adequate oiling to the rotating pieces. On the same note, you could mix all of your equipment at 50:1 and not have any issues.

The only tidbit of information to be cognizant of with your lawn equipment is that nearly all of the pieces of equipment will tell you to use oil rated for air cooled equipment. Note that there is a difference between air cooled, hand held equipment and water cooled boat motors. Nearly all modern OPE (outdoor power equipment) manufacturers state to NOT USE TC-W3 oil. In your situation, the Lucas oil that claims to meet JASO FD will be perfect for your trimmer.

Sorry to open an old thread, but would a dirt bike like a Yamaha yz125 which has a radiator still be considered “air cooled”?

 

[FowVay]

Sorry to open an old thread, but would a dirt bike like a Yamaha yz125 which has a radiator still be considered “air cooled”?

Dirt bikes are considerably more stressed than outdoor power equipment. For racing dirt bikes I always used the racers rules which have been published by oil companies such as Klotz, Maxima, Torco, etc. These companies that are heavily involved in motorsport racing say that the smaller the displacement and the higher the engines revs, the more oil it needs. Small, high RPM 125cc race bikes should be mixed in the 32:1 range. Larger bore open class bikes that flow a lot of fuel and rev slower can get by with less oil in the fuel. There have been mathematical explanations demonstrating the length of time the oil stays in the pocket of these engines and this is where the recommendations come from.

Note that racing oils from many manufacturers (Klotz is one example) and a few oils sold by the OEM manufacturers (Kawasaki is one example) as their own racing oils are ashless. They aren't relying on metallic ash to keep things clean so the ashless/low ash argument doesn't seem to hold much water with modern formulations.

A couple of my very favorite racing bike oils are Honda HP2 (it's EXCELLENT and inexpensive) and Torco GP7 (it's EXCELLENT and pricey).

Yes, your bike is water cooled but the application is not comparable to a constant RPM boat motor.

 

[lilspenny]

I recently acquired an ECHO SRM-225. The guy who gave it to me also handed me a bottle of powercare 40:1 mix. Looking online my trimmer takes 50:1. Not like the extra oil would hurt but whatever.

The manual states "A two-stroke engine oil meeting ISO-L-EGD (ISO/CD 13738) and J.A.S.O. FD Standards
must be used. Echo brand premium Power Blend X™ Universal 2-Stroke Oil meets these standards. Engine
problems due to inadequate lubrication caused by failure to use an ISO-L-EGD (ISO/CD 13738) and
J.A.S.O. FD certified oil, such as Echo premium Power Blend X™, will void the two-stroke engine warranty."

I have a bottle of semi synthetic lucas 2 stroke oil" that states "Meets ISO GD and JASO FC & FD" Exceeds API TC. I use it for my 2 stroke Toro CCR2450 snowblower.

Is ISO-L-EGD the same as ISO GD?

Will I damage my trimmer by using this oil?

If someone can please "dumb it down" for me that would be great.

I see so much contradicting information online about 2 cycle oil that it's making my head spin!

I also read online if you use a fully synthetic oil it's good for all mixing ratios up to 50:1? True?

How crucial is meeting oil standards?

I apologize for the long post, just trying to have a better understanding on this complicated subject.

50:1 might be thin for some oils. To make it simple Echo makes Red Armor oil. It's FD rated and is sold at Echo dealers, Home Depot, Amazon, and tons of online stores. 50:1 will work unless extreme conditions. Gonna dog it out? 40:1.

 

[Jetronic]

From https://www.mopedarmy.com/wiki/Specifications_for_two_stroke_oil

Specifications for two stroke oil are as follows.

• NMMA TC-W3 – two cycle water-cooled, third generation. TC-W3 obsoletes TC-W & TC-WII. Oils with this spec do not use metal based additives and are ashless. This is an outboard-specific spec -- most mopeds will not use this kind of oil.
• API TC – only API spec established for two cycle engines. It regulates lubricity, detergency, ash content and pre-ignition. Oils with this spec are typically using metal-based, ash-producing additives.
• JASO FA – original spec established regulating lubricity, detergency, initial torque, exhaust smoke and exhaust system blocking (obsolete)
• JASO FB – increased lubricity, detergency, exhaust smoke and exhaust system blocking requirements over FA.
• JASO FC – lubricity and initial torque requirements same as FB, however far higher detergency, exhaust smoke and exhaust system blocking requirements over FB.
• JASO FD – same as FC with far higher detergency requirement.
• ISO-L-EGB – same tests and requirements as JASO FB.
• ISO-L-EGC – same tests and slightly higher detergency requirements (piston varnish) as JASO FC.
• ISO-L-EGD – same tests and requirements as JASO FD.

The bottom line is that any FC/EGC oil or later will provide adequate lubrication when mixed at the proper ratios.

Also of note, very lean oil ratios, like 100 to 1 do result in rapid engine wear. Under most conditions, 32 to 1 provides all the wear protection possible, with the exception of Kart racing engines and a few other very highly stressed engines. Kart engines may use 20 to 1, or even 16 to 1.

I use 32 to 1, EGD in everything from my race bikes to my Echo trimmers.

the manufacturer of the 2 stroke oil I use recommends 25:1, using semi synthetic or full synthetic. You'd almost think they have a clue....

 

[Japanese]

Sorry to open an old thread, but would a dirt bike like a Yamaha yz125 which has a radiator still be considered “air cooled”?

Your bike is water cooled, but it is still a dirt bike and they have their own specifics.
Are you asking because you want to figure out what type of 2-stroke oil to use and gas/oil ratio or something else?