2 Cycle oil - Can I mix brands - Rotax ultralight

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Isaac

Isaac

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Oct 1, 2009
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Panama Rep. of Panama - Central America
Hello guys, Sorry is this has been ask before.

I fly a Quicksilver Ultralight with Rotax 582 engine. This engine use a 2 cycle oil injection pump. So I dont have to premix the fuel for the main fuel tank.

This engine has around 150 hours of use and from day one, I have been using Royal Purple 2 cycle oil that I was importing from USA.

The thing is That I am out of stock and nobody sells that brand here in my country and importing it, it will take a lot of time.

Since my Rotax engine has a tank specially to poor there the 2 cycle oil, can I mix or use another brand of 2 cycle oil like Penzoil, Castrol, Havoline?

Do the engine will suffer if it use another 2 cycle oil?
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Can I mix Synthetic with Mineral or Synthetic with synthetic or mineral with mineral?

Thx for you time and help,

Isaac
 
Do not mix 2-cycle oils. Each has a different chemistry. What Pennzoil and Castrol 2-cycle oils are available to you where your at?

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to BITOG
 
Johnny- I agree with you but want to bring up another point so people aren't confused. This does not apply to all 2-stroke oils. In the marine world all TCW-3 2-stroke oils are compatable with each other. You can mix and match brands. You can also mix and match TCW-3 dino, semi-syn, and syn. Didn't want this to confuse the boat and jet ski owners on the forum.
 
I won't disagree with that, but at 3,000 feet I would not want to do it.

You do not want to mix a marine 2-cycle oil like TCW-3 with a 2-cycle oil that was designed for air cooled engines like a TC rated oil. You get the wrong mix and bad things can happen.
 
Although we've never seen a related failure, all the tech reps I've talked to over the years have always recommended not mixing unlike oils, whether designed for water cooled or air cooled engines. That means even in the same brand, do not mix dino with syn or semi-syn oils. And of course, buy an oil designed for being injected rather than one designed to be pre-mixed.

I can't think of a worse place to find out it was a bad idea than in the seat of an ultralight.
 
A few years back I flew a Tierra II ultralight/experimental that utilized the Rotax 582 engine. In over 400 hours of use, I mixed
Phillips 66 Injex, Pennzoil TC-W 3, and Amsoil synthetic. Never seemed to make a bit of difference. I never flushed the oil tank, just poured whatever I had in there. I did change the caburetor jetting up or down every 25 degrees (F) to compensate for the big changes in temperature here in Wisconsin. And believe me, this thing needed 5 to 7 miutes of full throttle at takeoff to get to a cruise altitude. I did use the Rotax oil in the rotary valve reservoir, but that used so little oil, consumption was a non issue.

My 2 cents.
 
hatetowork- I agree with you and John on no compromise for the ultra-lite air cooled engine oil. I was talking about marine oils and the info your techs gave you regarding them is incorrect. I am Johnny's age and retired. I have owned boats for over 40 yrs. I currently own 2 boats. 5 yrs ago I started a outboard repair shop. I am a certified Yamaha and Merc master tech. I fish 3 days a week and work on outboards 3 days a week. TCW-3 is a min spec created by the NMMA. It is similar to the API SM spec that has to be met by PCMO's. Oils must meet the min spec. Good oils exceed the specs in both of these apps. Like all SM PCMO's all TCW-3 oils are compatable with each other regardless of make or whether dino,semi-syn,or syn. Some direct injected engines such as Yam HPDI,Merc OPTI-MAX,and Evenrude E-TECH spec full syn oil but you also have the option of running semi-syn to save money. All of these will run on dino TCW-3 just fine if the specd oil is unavailable. This is even stated in the service manuals for these engines. Johnny will appreciate this. Yamalube is semi-syn,Merc Opti Oil, and BRP X-D 100 are full syn. Go to any boating and fishing forum and ask what oil people are using in their DFI motors. 9 out of 10 use Pennzoil full syn because it is less expensive and produces LESS carbon build-up. Didn't mean to rant on here but I wanted to clarify this for you. Another myth is that if you mix 2 different brands of 2 stroke oil it will cause gelling in your oil tank. The guy that started that rumor should be slowly castrated with a piece of monofilament fishing line!
 
Originally Posted By: gwdriver
Another myth is that if you mix 2 different brands of 2 stroke oil it will cause gelling in your oil tank. The guy that started that rumor should be slowly castrated with a piece of monofilament fishing line!



If I ever start a rumor, I'm never gonna admit it to you!! LOL
 
Originally Posted By: Johnny
Do not mix 2-cycle oils. Each has a different chemistry. What Pennzoil and Castrol 2-cycle oils are available to you where your at?


Hello guys,

Thank you all for your comments.

Jhonny, I know I can find in my country brans like Castrol, Penzoil, Haoline, Chevron, Bell Ray, Yamalube. etc What exactly 2 cycle oil they carry, I dont know.

Bell Ray, I know they carry MC1 and other that have some letters like HR or whatever.

I have been talking with the Karting guys, they import "NOW" Amsoil and Motul but no Royal Purple

Finding another brand of 2 cycle oil here in my country will be no problem........... My only concern is if I can mix one of them with the one I have in the 2 cycle tank AND if the engine can get damage
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Thx,

Isaac
 
Originally Posted By: Johnny
I won't disagree with that, but at 3,000 feet I would not want to do it.

You do not want to mix a marine 2-cycle oil like TCW-3 with a 2-cycle oil that was designed for air cooled engines like a TC rated oil. You get the wrong mix and bad things can happen.


I forget to mention that my Rotax 582 engine is water cooled.

Its a detuned version of the ones you find on Jets Ski or Ski Do that produce 9,000 RPM but the diference is that we dont need HI RPMs. The max RPM I get with this engine is 6,200 on take off and crusing is around 5,000 to 5,500.

keep in mind that this engine use a reduction gear to move a big prop at around 2,000 RPM

Also my country is at sea level and we usually fly at betwen 1,500 to 2,000 feets. Here in Central America is very hot and I will say almost 100% humidity

THX,


Isaac
 
If the following link is the current specs on the Rotax 582, then you do not want to use a TCW-3 marine approved 2-cycle oil. Even though the TC spec is old, you want to use a good 2-cycle oil designed for air cooled engines, even though yours is water cooled. I know in the states the Pennzoil Air Cooled 2-cycle oil is thought of very highly in the ultralight circles, but I do not know if you can get that where your at.

Several of the brands you mentioned make quality 2-cycle oils. I do not know what Royal Purple oil you were using, so just to be safe, I would drain as much out as I could before switching brands.

http://www.rotaxservice.com/rotax_engines/rotax_582ULs.htm
 
Originally Posted By: Johnny
What are the specs on the back of the bottle?


This is what I found on the Penzoil Web Page

PRODUCT DESCRIPTION
PENNZOIL® MULTI-PURPOSE TWO-CYCLE OIL is certified by the National Marine
Manufacturer's Association (NMMA) as an approved NMMA TC-W3® lubricant. It contains Pennzoil premium quality
lubricating oil plus ashless additives and increased detergency to give the best quality protection in all types of high
performance two-cycle engines calling for TC-W®, TC-WII®, and TC-W3® oils. PENNZOIL® PREMIUM OUTBOARD
AND MULTI-PURPOSE TWO-CYCLE OIL also exceeds the performance requirements of the API TC Service
Classification which is commonly recommended for air-cooled two-cycle engines.

PENNZOIL® MULTI-PURPOSE TWO-CYCLE OIL may also be used in other
applications calling for TC-W®, TC-WII® or TC-W3® approved oils. PENNZOIL® PREMIUM OUTBOARD AND
MULTI-PURPOSE TWO-CYCLE OIL exceeds the API TC Service Classification requirements. This means PENNZOIL®
PREMIUM OUTBOARD AND MULTI-PURPOSE TWO-CYCLE OIL is suitable for use in air-cooled, two-cycle utilityengines, such as those found on string trimmers, chain saws, lawn mowers, motorcycles, mopeds, and golf carts.

What I dont undertand is why Rotax recomend API TC 2 cycle oil for my Rotax 582 Water Cooled engine? Its my undertanding that API TC is for air cooled 2 cycle engines
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Thx,

Isaac
 
Originally Posted By: Isaac

What I dont undertand is why Rotax recomend API TC 2 cycle oil for my Rotax 582 Water Cooled engine? Its my undertanding that API TC is for air cooled 2 cycle engines
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I'm just speculating, but I suspect operating conditions (ambient temperatures, engine load, and cylinder temperatures) are such that the the TC class oils perform better.

Pennzoil Outdoor Multipurpose Two Cycle Oil was previously called "Premium Outboard and Multipurpose Two Cycle Oil". (The product data sheet on the web site still has the old name on it)

The cheapest place I found the Pennzoil Outdoor MP was Target ($3.46/quart). My local Wal-mart carries the gallons, at $14.97/gal.

Pennzoil did an ultralight test with it (280 hours), and it fared pretty well. (Note: The old product name was used at the time of the test)
http://www.ultralightnews.com/features/oiltest.htm

Havoline TC-W3 (also TC), made by Chevron, also an ultralight favorite.
 
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