2.5L Jeep Wrangler - How bad is this? Help!

[Seth_TJ]

Hey all,

Finally got my second UOA back here. Looks a lot different than the first.

First one is Mobil 1 Tri-Syn the old formulation. The second one is the new Super-Syn. Mileage is indicated on the UOA's. The engine has less than 70k on it. I can't believe there could be anything major wrong. I've taken good care of it Mobil 1 since 13k miles when I bought it.

First one had Redline SI-1 injector cleaner used a good bit. Second tank only had a little put in at the very end right before I tested (forgot I was not going to use any). K&N airfilter on both expect for the last 500 miles on the second one. Was going to clean the K&N so I put my stock one back in.


OLD UOA:

Just got this one:

Thanks for any input you guys can give me on this.

Sorry about the different sizes on the pics. I was in a hurry. Might have to go fullscreen to read them

-Seth

 

[Ryan00TJ]

Here is my last UOA on my 00 TJ with the 2.5L I4 to compare to. This report was in the wintertime and saw alot of cold short trips which is probably why the iron was pretty high. I was driving only 2-4 miles to college and the oil didn't really have much time to warm up.

http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000388

 

[TR3-2001SE]

I would first consult Terry who is an expert at understanding what this means. As just a hack I would say either the redline SI-1 is effecting your analysis or you have a more serious problem with your engine. Without Terry's advise I would do a short interval on dino oil and install a magnetic oil plug. Then I would do an auto-rx cleaning just in hopes it would clean some of what is going on out. Then a 3000 mile interval and retest. If no improvement I would trade the jeep on something else. Let us know how it goes as we are all interested in learning about this UOA stuff.

 

[Last_Z]

I don't think Blackstone hit the panic button hard enough, so I will!
The first analysis looks like the old Tri-Synthetic oil and the second was the introduction of Super-Syn, which still had some magnesium in it. The magnesium (or type of) in some oils have been blamed for bearing wear. You have small amounts of sodium and potassium in these samples, but I don't know if it's coolant or additives in the old formulations. The silicon is not really that bad and it didn't affect tin and nickel much, but I would definitely stick with a paper filter. I would stay away from any and all additives (fuel and oil) and keep the OCI to 3k miles, just to get an earlier look. Also, try a different oil brand and something that's a bit thicker (GC 0W-30, Amsoil 10W-30 or a thin 40W oil) and see if that helps. From what people have stated here, Tri-Syn didn't show very good UOAs. Your insolubles and fuel dilution isn't bad either, so I think this would better be left for the pros like Terry Dyson.....he should be able to help you pinpoint the cause of this wear.
I would definitely be freaked out with a report like this!

 

[Pablo]

I didn't think Redline SI-1 was that agressive?? I used to use it....but only did a UOA with oil once or twice and don't remember much unusual.

For sure Terry would know the history.

OK Pb is high...but Cu and Sn didn't follow. That is interesting. You don't happen to have some leaded gas or lead additive...? But that doesn't explain the iron.

Here's what I think: I think this motor may benifit from a XW-40, Maybe a 15w40.

 

[Seth_TJ]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pablo:
I didn't think Redline SI-1 was that agressive??

---

Guys... The first test there with the old Tri-Syn well I used Redline concentrated as a quick cleanup and then as a maintenance amount ever 2 tanks of gas. So if it was doing something it would have shown up big time on that first test. The second time I used the smaller suggested maintenance amount by accident at the end ONE time. So if it made any difference at all it would have shown in the first one and not the second one.

I am worried about this though. My engine is still running strong and I haven't noticed any overheating or anything. If I think of anything else weird I'll let you guys know. I just don't know what bearing or what could be causing this.

Also am I taking it that Mobil 1 isn't a superior oil anymore or just for maybe my application?


How can I get a hold of Terry?

 

[Pablo]

Here's Terry:

Terry, site sponsor Dyson

I think maybe M1 at 30 is a bit thin for this engine, but what are others using?

 

[Bobert]

Synthetic is not giving you the returns it should. Maybe a couple short runs of some Pennzoil Long Life 15w40 for 2500 miles each and see if things improve.

 

[Seth_TJ]

Also didn't know if it would matter or not but I know the oil was a little less than what I had put in first since it was slightly lower on the stick. My Jeep leaks a little bit of oil (always has) maybe 2 drops a week in the garage or less. So it was just a little less than what it originally had in it when I took the sample. I didn't know if this would make it look "more concentrated" or not. I didn't add any makeup oil.

I can't believe this oil wouldn't be good for this motor?

 

[Gary Allan]

Seth ..this engine is an iron hog (it's the same block minus two cylinders of the 4.0). Your first UOA resembles mine ..except mine for the 4.0 was around 9-10k ..but I've got double the oil capacity. My 4.0 didn't do well with xw-30 ..but REALLY came down in wear with Delvac I 5w-40. My SE (2.5)..I haven't done a UOA on yet ..but I've used all 5w-40 synthetics in it since around 2500 miles (39k on it now).

Go heavier for this engine. I know it's not a rev monster ..but it's derived from a "torque monster" and probably needs oil with more moxie than a light weight.

 

[Bror Jace]

For what it's worth, Terry requested I stop using Red Line SI-1 (or any other non-FP cleaner) in my Nissan SpecV after my less-than-stellar UOA a month ago.

At the very least, it reduces the variables involved in determining why elevated wear indicators might be showing up in UOAs.

--- Bror Jace