1999 Grand Prix SE transmission

[sherann54]

My 1999 Grand Prix Se has 69,000 miles on it. We do not drive it that often as you can tell by the miles. It is in super shape. It sets in the gargage most of the time. I bought it brand new. The service engine soon light came on. We took it to the dealer we bought it from and they are saying the computer says the transmission is slipping and we should put a new one in. It is so hard for us to believe with only that amount of miles on it that is what it needs.

Have you had this happen before.

 

[DrDusty86]

I would change the fluid and filter with the correct fluid and reset the light disconnect the battery and turn the headlights on with it disconnected to drain the KAM to force a transmission relearn with new filter and fluid.
I would think that would get you fixed up nicely.

 

[Trav]

Stop driving it till you get this worked out. Its not going to be quite as easy as a fluid and filter and a light reset.
Do you remember what the code was? Was is a long shift code P1811?

 

[sherann54]

I don't know what the code was. They did not say. It is at the garage now. I will call tomorrow and see what it was. Hopefully they did not start tearing it down.

 

[Trav]

P1811 is a very common code with these 4T65E units. Many shops just say rebuild time but its not the case there is a well documented fix for this which has a great success rate.
It cost about $100 inc filter + fluid.

Sorry to here its at a garage, chances are your really screwed i'm sorry to say. When they see this coming its a money maker, course everything was shot inside.

Check this thread out.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1998882#Post1998882

 

[Milkman]

Listen to Trav,

He gives very good advice.

He is an asset to this board.

 

[ls1mike]

Trav is exactly correct. Having had a bunch of 4T65E cars I can tell you they get "Miss" Diagnosed and you they stick you with a big bill for an easy fix.

 

[DrDusty86]

Change the fluid and filter. Did I not say that? I'm curious. Try the easy stuff first. reset the light and see if it comes back after the adaptive relearn and fluid change. VERY simple really. any other advice is foolish and worthless. Miss Diagnosed, CHANGE THE FLUID AND FILTER ALREADY...GOOD LORD PEOPLE.

TRAV'S SKILLS ARE SLIPPING. HIS 2 POSTS CONTRADICT EACH OTHER. ONE SAID IT ISN'T A SIMPLE FIX AND THE OTHER SAID IT IS..ABOUT $100 INCLUDING THE F/F. WHICH IS IT TRAV, CAUSE I'M ALL EARS MR MECHANIC?

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Milkman
Listen to Trav,

He gives very good advice.

He is an asset to this board.



I had the same problem with my Buick Century, the Long Island transmission thieves were real quick to sell me a rebuilt. Trav knocked the job out in less than 2 hours for me, and the transmission is working flawlessly now.

Find out what the code is before allowing them to do any work to your car!

Your off base Dr Dusty. He needs to know the code first, as Trav said. He can change the fluid and filter till [censored] freezes over. If the OP has the code why not do the job right the first time? A fluid filter change isn't going to work. Your way he'd be opening the tranny up twice, very wasteful.

BTW doing it Trav's way changes the fluid and filter too, only he'll be doing it once.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: ls1mike
Trav is exactly correct. Having had a bunch of 4T65E cars I can tell you they get "Miss" Diagnosed and you they stick you with a big bill for an easy fix.


Times a dozen. Trav knows that correct diagnosis is the key to a good repair.

Classic stealership setup. I guess some folks just whip out the credit card and start throwing money at it. That's what they live for, a quick hit for BIG bucks.

Personally I recommend you find the independent shop in your area with a huge backlog of cars stacked all around. Mine does better than OEM rebuilds at competitive pricing with an unlimited mileage warranty!

 

[Trav]

Thanks for explaining that Frank. Thats exactly right he doesn't even have the car and we dont know the code so its all up in the air.
I didn't want to go into a procedures that for sure isn't as simple as a filter and fluid but its not beyond most DIY guys either.

These units have a few issues, one being the 4th gear input shaft rounding off because it was not a hardened shaft up to 2003 and the other is being able to maintain enough pressure to prevent long shift times.
Of course all other typical failures that apply to every auto tranny applies to this one as well, bad pumps, worn clutches, bad solenoids, etc but nothing worse than any other.

Living behind the 3.1 (IIRC in the SE) is not as hard a life for this unit like it would be behind the 3.8 or larger engine and with only 69K on the clock i doubt the 4th shaft has failed (not unheard of but its a bit young for that).
He also did not mention he didn't have 4th gear.
Once the unit begins to slip continuing to drive the car will only cause accelerated clutch wear, a new fluid and filter alone will not correct this known issue as you know first hand.
You have personally seen before and after real time shift time data proving this.

As you said while the pan is down and the filter is out there is a kit designed just for this job. It is even a a excellent preventive maintenance consideration for properly operating units.
Depending on what the code is will certainly help in determining the best course of action.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: DrDusty86
Change the fluid and filter. Did I not say that? I'm curious.


You did. And then more logical advice was provided by somebody with actual experience with this unit.

Quote:
Try the easy stuff first. reset the light and see if it comes back after the adaptive relearn and fluid change. VERY simple really.


Actually, the easiest thing is checking the codes.

Quote:
any other advice is foolish and worthless. Miss Diagnosed, CHANGE THE FLUID AND FILTER ALREADY...GOOD LORD PEOPLE.


I'm not sure how you can possibly construe getting the diagnostic trouble codes, their entire purpose to aide in, as the name implies, diagnostic troubleshooting, as foolish and worthless

That in and of itself is the most ridiculous thing I've heard in awhile.

Trav's fix also requires the fluid and filter to be changed, if the problem, verified by the codes from the transmission, is in fact the one he thinks it is. If that's the case, the OP is changing the fluid/filter twice for no reason. That's why you troubleshoot before just going gonzo with a wrench on something, you know, so you don't have to do it twice

Quote:
TRAV'S SKILLS ARE SLIPPING. HIS 2 POSTS CONTRADICT EACH OTHER. ONE SAID IT ISN'T A SIMPLE FIX AND THE OTHER SAID IT IS..ABOUT $100 INCLUDING THE F/F. WHICH IS IT TRAV, CAUSE I'M ALL EARS MR MECHANIC?


I see reading comprehension isn't your forte:

Originally Posted By: Trav
Stop driving it till you get this worked out. Its not going to be quite as easy as a fluid and filter and a light reset.
Do you remember what the code was? Was is a long shift code P1811?


and then:

Originally Posted By: Trav
P1811 is a very common code with these 4T65E units. Many shops just say rebuild time but its not the case there is a well documented fix for this which has a great success rate.
It cost about $100 inc filter + fluid.


He said it's not quite as easy as a fluid and filter change with a light reset. His subsequent post then says that the fix, which, to be clear, isn't quite as easy as a fluid and filter change, costs about $100.00. I'm not sure how you get a contradiction out of that, it makes perfect sense

So not only do you a rip on the man "yelling" that his "skills" are slipping, but you do it based on something you didn't even read properly. Bravo!

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: Trav

He also did not mention he didn't have 4th gear.


IIRC if the pcm detects slippage in the converter lock up it will default to 3rd gear automatically. This happens often as the pressure drops below commanded values.

 

[Trav]

The 4T65E has slippage in the TC all the time It can engage the TC in 2nd-4th gears.
There is so much TC slippage they use a special woven lining to prevent the TC clutch from going on permanent vacation.

This TC lockup programming below 55 mph can be annoying but it can be tuned out so it locks up only in 4th.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Yep, I'm sure it varies the lock up. Many trans' do that these days. What I should have said is if the commanded value does not match the actual slip then it may default to 3rd gear only. It's a 'limp home' mode that GM uses in many different vehicles and seems to be a basic part of their programming.

 

[Trav]

Sorry i didn't quite understand. Yes your right 3rd and rev IIRC also.

 

[TechnoLoGs]

Originally Posted By: Milkman
Listen to Trav,

He gives very good advice.

He is an asset to this board.



+1

I almost want to travel (back to) Boston Mass.-area to take my cars to him for service at his work.

Folks like Trav make the Bay State (Commonwalth?) proud.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: TechnoLoGs
Originally Posted By: Milkman
Listen to Trav,

He gives very good advice.

He is an asset to this board.



+1

I almost want to travel (back to) Boston Mass.-area to take my cars to him for service at his work.

Folks like Trav make the Bay State (Commonwalth?) proud.


I had an opportunity to see him in action. He'd make a killing on Long Island. He's not a parts changer, he actually does diagnostic work and knows how to troubleshoot, something a parts changer is clueless about.

Before he opened up my tranny he hooked his computer to the car and had me drive it while he recorded shift points and shift times. He saw in real time when the shift finally triggered a code. Then he did the repair, and we took a much longer drive getting the tranny good and hot. Again he recorded shift points and the time it took for the shift. That proved beyond any doubt the repair worked.

Mechanics that work as well and as honestly as he does would have a following the parts changers would envy. That's why his injector cleaning service is growing as quickly as it is.

 

[ls1mike]

Originally Posted By: Trav
This TC lockup programming below 55 mph can be annoying but it can be tuned out so it locks up only in 4th.

Mikey likes.


I have this done to mine.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: Trav
Thanks for explaining that Frank. Thats exactly right he doesn't even have the car and we dont know the code so its all up in the air.
I didn't want to go into a procedures that for sure isn't as simple as a filter and fluid but its not beyond most DIY guys either.

These units have a few issues, one being the 4th gear input shaft rounding off because it was not a hardened shaft up to 2003 and the other is being able to maintain enough pressure to prevent long shift times.
Of course all other typical failures that apply to every auto tranny applies to this one as well, bad pumps, worn clutches, bad solenoids, etc but nothing worse than any other.

Living behind the 3.1 (IIRC in the SE) is not as hard a life for this unit like it would be behind the 3.8 or larger engine and with only 69K on the clock i doubt the 4th shaft has failed (not unheard of but its a bit young for that).
He also did not mention he didn't have 4th gear.
Once the unit begins to slip continuing to drive the car will only cause accelerated clutch wear, a new fluid and filter alone will not correct this known issue as you know first hand.
You have personally seen before and after real time shift time data proving this.

As you said while the pan is down and the filter is out there is a kit designed just for this job. It is even a a excellent preventive maintenance consideration for properly operating units.
Depending on what the code is will certainly help in determining the best course of action.




Yep. By all accounts here chief amigo has slipped so far that his advice consists of not spending money on a drain and fill that may not work,hence not throwing good money away and his explanation is so bad that his "skills" are in question.
Perhaps Trav has forgotten more than most of us will know,so maybe chief amigo needed to get into a different compartment to address this particular situation.
Regardless,dusty your comment deserves Trav an apology.
Chief amigo takes the time to answer all of our questions and I've yet to actually see him wrong,so dusty your comment was a shot that in my eyes requires attention.
And Trav I would like to thank you for all the first hand knowledge you share with us. You are a valuable asset to this community and I thank you for the time and effort to spend trying to help us not spend more than we have to in any given situation.
Overkill: great work ^^^^^^^^. You have a way with words.