1965 for mustang brake issue?

[finalyzd]

Recently had a new employee do a brake job. On a 65 ford mustang, front rotors, pads, rear drums and shoes, hardware,wheels bearings, axles seals, basically the whole she bang lol. Well took it for a text drive and this thing stops like a freight train, its horrible. Literally had to smash the pedal to stop. Now I spoke with my boss who is a master mechanic and he says it has no power brakes it all manual. I told him that can't be people in the 60's must have been scared as [censored] to drive then. I had my other mechanic who's been working with us for a while now test drive it and he also agrees. Now once again a day later I tell my boss about it and he kind of seems unsure but tells me its just how it is.

I know the braking system wasent the greatest back then but it couldn't have been that bad. Any thoughts?

I was thinking maybe the new guy didn't bleed the system? I wasent there when job was performed

 

[Chris142]

Were front disc brakes available on a Mustang in 65 or is this a aftermarket setup?

 

[finalyzd]

After market setup I believe? I'm not sure.

 

[Brian Barnhart]

I believe front disk brakes and power brakes (or both together) were optional on Mustangs in '65. My wife's original '65 Mustang has manual brakes with drums all around. That being said, many of the early Mustangs have since been upgraded to disk brakes, both OEM style and aftermarket.

It definately takes a little practice to adjust to non-power brakes. They require significantly more pedal effort than the power brakes on today's cars. Though her car won't stop as quickly as most more modern cars, I wouldn't call it unsafe. She was very uncomfortable with the "feel" of the brakes at first, but adjusted quickly.

 

[Chris142]

I'm wondering if there is a mismatch somewhere. Wrong caliper or master cylinder bore size something along those lines.

IMO drum brakes work better w/o power assist because of the way that the shoes turn and grab the drums and there is more material rubbing the drum than with disc.

 

[bdcardinal]

disc brakes were an option. look at the brake pedal, it should say "disc brakes" on it.

 

[dishdude]

In 1997 I was working at Pepboys, and an 80-81 ish Citation came in. Not realizing it had manual brakes, I pulled out onto the road and thought I was going to die the first time I had to stop. The pedal was so high and so hard to press, and the thing barely stopped.

Like you, I couldn't imagine driving around with non power or all drum brakes. yikes!

 

[mechtech2]

Even if everything was done right, the brakes have to set in.
Like shoes for your feet, they have to wear in before they wear out. This is important, and very much makes the pedal feel different, as well as the actual braking.

Rubber brake lines act up after a while internally. so can old calipers or wheel cylinders. And like mentioned, who knows if it was bled, or bled correctly?


"The whole shebang" is likely only 1/2 shebang.

 

[finalyzd]

Originally Posted By: dishdude
In 1997 I was working at Pepboys, and an 80-81 ish Citation came in. Not realizing it had manual brakes, I pulled out onto the road and thought I was going to die the first time I had to stop. The pedal was so high and so hard to press, and the thing barely stopped.

Like you, I couldn't imagine driving around with non power or all drum brakes. yikes!


I thought I was going to crash when I drove it. So I guess I shouldn't worry. Car belongs to the owners neighbor just kinda of worried when the vehicle was picked up and driven off. I greatly implied the drive safe gesture hahaha

 

[Rhymingmechanic]

Did anybody at the shop drive it before the brake job for a comparison? Has the customer driven the car yet? They should be able to tell you whether there's reason for concern, but it would be awkward asking them if the brakes feel right.

I converted a Nova from power to manual brakes during an engine swap. I never drove the car with power, but it wasn't scary with the manual setup in street driving or bracket racing. Front discs were stock.

If you really like white-knuckle driving, drive a four-wheel drum car through standing water. I just about drove the wheels off an old Duster with that setup, and it made me a believer in following distance.

 

[NEOhio_Bob]

I'm a little foggy on this, but I seem to remember that "back in the day" disc brakes nearly always came with power assist because they required higher pressures to work properly. Not sure if it was because of the smaller contact area (disc pads vs. shoes) or the larger area of the caliper piston (vs. wheel cylinder piston), or something altogether different.

Point is that if it is an after market setup added to a car that never had power brakes, this behavior wouldn't really be surprising. All that really matters is if the owner thinks it is "right" and is happy with it.

 

[dnastrau]

I have had a few cars with manual drum brakes and one with manual front disc and none of them were "scary." Some of the power drum 1960s cars that I have driven would positively throw you through the windshield (at least before they got really hot).

My thought is that something is not right here. A lot could have happened to this car since 1965. Perhaps this was a power drum brake car and someone converted it to manual disc but did not change the brake pedal assembly/linkage to a manual brake pedal. The design is different as is the leverage/fulcrum angle. Power brake pedals apply less leverage on the linkage attached to the master cylinder than manual brake pedal assemblies do.

Andrew S.

 

[Scott_Tucker]

Brakes on those cars were pretty scary, even with front discs. I have a 67 with 4 wheel drums that belonged to my grandmother. I have no idea she was able to drive it with her weak little legs.

 

[StormRider]

Pop the hood and look where the master cylinder is bolted. If there is a big vacuum line going to the engine from a big round drum then the car has power brakes, and the vacuum booster is bad.

Unless Mustangs had hydraulic power assist brakes...

 

[Trav]

db I was looking at an old Mustang catalog and don't see the option for power disk only disk and as you pointed out those cars had "Disk Brake" on the pedal.
It appear these cars had 4 piston callipers with manual disk,is this correct?

I would imagine the brake pedal having hard pedal with this setup.

 

[TooManyWheels]

Originally Posted By: Scott_Tucker
Brakes on those cars were pretty scary, even with front discs. I have a 67 with 4 wheel drums that belonged to my grandmother. I have no idea she was able to drive it with her weak little legs.


The element to this thread of "how did they do it" reminds me of the writeups that go around about "Remember when life was simple, you could stay out all day, bike without a helmet, and people weren't coddled like they are now". Somehow we managed to survive....

My 56 Chevy, 63 Falcon, 64 Nova, 65 Skylark, 65 Tempest, and 66 Chevelle did not have power brakes. In fact, my memory is that the first time you drove a power brake car, you had to be careful so you didn't make a complete fool of yourself by making a panic stop or causing a rear end collision. The markings on the brake pedals were there to warn you to be mindful of that....

 

[Boss302fan]

I have a 65 Mustang and the brakes almost put me through the windshield. You need a power brake booster with the front disc's and it needs to be set up correctly.

If you do have a booster then maybe you do not have enough engine vacuum to work the power front disc brakes. I think you need at least 13-14" of vacuum for the booster to work correctly. If you are running anything other then a stock cam, I would bet that your vacuum is low and you may need to add a vacuum canister. You can get those at Summit for under $60 and they work great.

Good luck.

 

[flanso]

I bought a new Mustang GT, A code, in 1965. That year, manual front disc brakes were an option though standard on the GT. Power brakes were also optional but only with all drums. The manual disc set up was quite effective though the caliper pistons were rust prone. I would bet that the car in question has a component that does not belong, most likely the master cylinder. I think the disc brake master cylinder had a different bore size than the much more common, but similar looking, drum brake master cylinder.