Dang I missed the pictures.
I'll stick with TaterandNoodle's response.
I'll stick with TaterandNoodle's response.
15,697mi Amsoil 30wDiesel ACD'06 Grand Prix LS4 v8
- Thread starter blakeinspace
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First two quarts low is a bit much for accurate sampleing against a control like the universal averages. Next the magnets on the oil can could be throwing off the true iron reading. In other words the wear rate might well be the same or higher but now instead of that iron being in the oil to be read by the lab it is stuck to the inside of the oil filter can due to magnets.
The thickening is too be expected with a sample two qurts low on oil ven M1 0W40 which shears badly would read thick more then likely under the condition you mentioned.
Between your 3 make up quarts and the two quarts your missing quarts I could almost do two oil changes. tbn is meaningless with the make up oil you have to add.It is like doing an oil change while driving!LOL
The thickening is too be expected with a sample two qurts low on oil ven M1 0W40 which shears badly would read thick more then likely under the condition you mentioned.
Between your 3 make up quarts and the two quarts your missing quarts I could almost do two oil changes. tbn is meaningless with the make up oil you have to add.It is like doing an oil change while driving!LOL
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: NYSteve
Why do you say that?
He always says this with Amsoil extended OCI's. Never has produced any evidence that there is a problem. It's the internet and he has a fixation. Most people just ignore his posts.
No,I actually just thought the oil was run too far. Lol.
Originally Posted By: NYSteve
Why do you say that?
He always says this with Amsoil extended OCI's. Never has produced any evidence that there is a problem. It's the internet and he has a fixation. Most people just ignore his posts.
No,I actually just thought the oil was run too far. Lol.
In an application that burns this much oil if kept topped up properly and a bypass filter was used one could easily go years with out changing since it is geting in situ oil changes!
I could not live with a vechile that used that much oil it wouldhave to go or I would have to methodicaly rebuild it to better then OEM specifactions. I have never owned a vechile that routinely burnt oil let alone a synthetic oil. On three occassions in the last 80,000 miles my Camry has burnt 1/4 of a quart. Each time it has been when I went from many OCI's with OTC synthetics to an oil with lots or all ester content and it never persits.
I just can not understand why people keep buying vechile that tose wear metal like mad and eat oil at an alarming rate!It is disturbing to me.I especialy can not see the need for regular UOA in such a situation since it will be extremely skewed!
I could not live with a vechile that used that much oil it wouldhave to go or I would have to methodicaly rebuild it to better then OEM specifactions. I have never owned a vechile that routinely burnt oil let alone a synthetic oil. On three occassions in the last 80,000 miles my Camry has burnt 1/4 of a quart. Each time it has been when I went from many OCI's with OTC synthetics to an oil with lots or all ester content and it never persits.
I just can not understand why people keep buying vechile that tose wear metal like mad and eat oil at an alarming rate!It is disturbing to me.I especialy can not see the need for regular UOA in such a situation since it will be extremely skewed!
Look at the first column, Iron was 21 ppm for 16k miles, universal averages are 20 ppm for 5800 miles. This is a fantastic UOA, if he had topped off the oil a month before, the visc would be much closer to a 10-30, and TBN would be even higher. I am very impressed with the ACD oil.
Originally Posted By: LargeCarManX2
Remember *******
* Two times (2X) OEM* recommendation, not to exceed 15,000 miles or one year, whichever comes first.
That means, if your OEM say's 3K OCI's and at 7K the engine goes bye, bye, because of the oil...Your Poop out of luck with Amsoil.
Sorry for the late reply... I have been out of pocket for a few weeks.
I am not so sure about what you typed is correct. If my engine fails for a mechanical condition and is under warranty... GM will repair it regardless of what brand is in the sump.
As for 2x the OEM suggestion... well that would put me at about 24k miles as my OLM went to single digits around 11.8k!
I think I see what you are getting at though... you are talking about having Amsoil corp covering a motor rebuild? Hmmm... not sure they could ascertain oil mileage based on a sample. I do find it very wierd that they only recommend a 15k interval for a gasoline engine and up to 50k on a diesel. I would think a diesel motor and fuel would be a lot hardier/dirtier on oil.
Remember *******
* Two times (2X) OEM* recommendation, not to exceed 15,000 miles or one year, whichever comes first.
That means, if your OEM say's 3K OCI's and at 7K the engine goes bye, bye, because of the oil...Your Poop out of luck with Amsoil.
Sorry for the late reply... I have been out of pocket for a few weeks.
I am not so sure about what you typed is correct. If my engine fails for a mechanical condition and is under warranty... GM will repair it regardless of what brand is in the sump.
As for 2x the OEM suggestion... well that would put me at about 24k miles as my OLM went to single digits around 11.8k!
I think I see what you are getting at though... you are talking about having Amsoil corp covering a motor rebuild? Hmmm... not sure they could ascertain oil mileage based on a sample. I do find it very wierd that they only recommend a 15k interval for a gasoline engine and up to 50k on a diesel. I would think a diesel motor and fuel would be a lot hardier/dirtier on oil.
Originally Posted By: FZ1
Running it too far.
uh... ok.
I guess be happy with your PP and M1 filter and 7.5k OCI's.
Good combo that should serve you well in most any application.
I guess I could tell you that you would be better off with some SuperFlo and a Fram on a 3k OCI... but what good does that do either of us?
BTW... did you even look at/comprehend the fuel% data?
5 OCI's and that number has not budged. Take a look at other Blackstone reports... see a trend?
Running it too far.
uh... ok.
I guess be happy with your PP and M1 filter and 7.5k OCI's.
Good combo that should serve you well in most any application.
I guess I could tell you that you would be better off with some SuperFlo and a Fram on a 3k OCI... but what good does that do either of us?
BTW... did you even look at/comprehend the fuel% data?
5 OCI's and that number has not budged. Take a look at other Blackstone reports... see a trend?
Originally Posted By: JohnBrowning
...in the last 80,000 miles my Camry has burnt 1/4 of a quart...
I just can not understand why people keep buying vechile that tose wear metal like mad and eat oil at an alarming rate!It is disturbing to me.I especialy can not see the need for regular UOA in such a situation since it will be extremely skewed!
John, thanks for the replies. Believe me... I'd prefer that my motor did not burn a drop... I didn't know it was a consumer when I bought it. I asked the dealership about it... they claimed it was well within tolerence... (if you want a shocking laugh... that number was 1 qt/1000 miles.) Since being an owner of an LSx series motor... I have learned they generally burn oil at about my rate and throw a lot of copper. Not really too much I can do about it at this point other than not buy GM again.
I too have a japanese import (Infinit I-30 with 226k on the odometer) that sips oil about as frugally as your Camry. I guess it is something to do with manufacturer tolerances.
As for the iron... seems like you'd want it on the magnet and not just floating in your oil. Many GM cars actually come with a mag tip oil plug.
Yeah, and I get your point about the consumption (make-up oil) vs. long OCI. It is like getting an oil change in as you drive. That honestly is the main reason I did not top off since 10k. I wanted to see what Amsoil looked like 'abused' in my car. Looks pretty darn good I'd say (when compared to the Univerasal Average).
I heed your advice men... I will stay on top of keeping the car at the full dipstick this run.
...in the last 80,000 miles my Camry has burnt 1/4 of a quart...
I just can not understand why people keep buying vechile that tose wear metal like mad and eat oil at an alarming rate!It is disturbing to me.I especialy can not see the need for regular UOA in such a situation since it will be extremely skewed!
John, thanks for the replies. Believe me... I'd prefer that my motor did not burn a drop... I didn't know it was a consumer when I bought it. I asked the dealership about it... they claimed it was well within tolerence... (if you want a shocking laugh... that number was 1 qt/1000 miles.) Since being an owner of an LSx series motor... I have learned they generally burn oil at about my rate and throw a lot of copper. Not really too much I can do about it at this point other than not buy GM again.
I too have a japanese import (Infinit I-30 with 226k on the odometer) that sips oil about as frugally as your Camry. I guess it is something to do with manufacturer tolerances.
As for the iron... seems like you'd want it on the magnet and not just floating in your oil. Many GM cars actually come with a mag tip oil plug.
Yeah, and I get your point about the consumption (make-up oil) vs. long OCI. It is like getting an oil change in as you drive. That honestly is the main reason I did not top off since 10k. I wanted to see what Amsoil looked like 'abused' in my car. Looks pretty darn good I'd say (when compared to the Univerasal Average).
I heed your advice men... I will stay on top of keeping the car at the full dipstick this run.
Originally Posted By: FZ1
Just tryin' to prevent you from "wet sanding" your internal components by running all those contaminants for so many miles.
Just tryin' to prevent you from "wet sanding" your internal components by running all those contaminants for so many miles.
No wonder we all freak out about iron. They highlighted Iron on your report, and if you factor in the mileage, you're still a good bit under the average.
At 20 ppm or so for 5800 miles avg, you ran it to 14.4K and weren't anywhere near the equivalent in iron.
That looks like a good run overall to me.
At 20 ppm or so for 5800 miles avg, you ran it to 14.4K and weren't anywhere near the equivalent in iron.
That looks like a good run overall to me.
Originally Posted By: FZ1
Just tryin' to prevent you from "wet sanding" your internal components by running all those contaminants for so many miles. I do,however,bet its very "polished",looking, in there.
If he were to spend MORE money and use MORE oil and run 5 800 miles the results would be IDENTICAL or WORSE. 100ppm is SMALL and is still nothing really to worry about unless it is gold. there is nothing wrong here and the fact that he got a UOA typically means that he actually maintains the rest of his car quite well.
I disagree with JB though...if the magnets + oil filter + oil = oiling system and a UOA is the representation of the oil's life in said oiling system then why is using magnets skewing the results?
All things considered if I bough a Pontiac GXP with most things being equal and used his oiling system, I'd have similar results.
The conclusion, is that using the magnets on the oil filter, Amsoil's oil filter and ACD in an LS4 with all other things equal, expect to run 16,000 miles with some consumption requiring some top-up.
Just tryin' to prevent you from "wet sanding" your internal components by running all those contaminants for so many miles. I do,however,bet its very "polished",looking, in there.
If he were to spend MORE money and use MORE oil and run 5 800 miles the results would be IDENTICAL or WORSE. 100ppm is SMALL and is still nothing really to worry about unless it is gold. there is nothing wrong here and the fact that he got a UOA typically means that he actually maintains the rest of his car quite well.
I disagree with JB though...if the magnets + oil filter + oil = oiling system and a UOA is the representation of the oil's life in said oiling system then why is using magnets skewing the results?
All things considered if I bough a Pontiac GXP with most things being equal and used his oiling system, I'd have similar results.
The conclusion, is that using the magnets on the oil filter, Amsoil's oil filter and ACD in an LS4 with all other things equal, expect to run 16,000 miles with some consumption requiring some top-up.
Quote:
I do find it very wierd that they (Amsoil) only recommend a 15k interval for a gasoline engine and up to 50k on a diesel. I would think a diesel motor and fuel would be a lot hardier/dirtier on oil.
Does any reader happen to have an answer for this question?
I do find it very wierd that they (Amsoil) only recommend a 15k interval for a gasoline engine and up to 50k on a diesel. I would think a diesel motor and fuel would be a lot hardier/dirtier on oil.
Does any reader happen to have an answer for this question?
You think its weird they would recommend the same mileage as the severe service interval for all of the gasoline engine oils except SSO and XL line?
Quote:
SERVICE LIFE
AMSOIL Synthetic 10W-30 Motor Oil is recommended for extended drain intervals in unmodified(1), mechanically sound(2) gasoline fueled vehicles as follows:
• Normal Service(3) – Up to 25,000 miles or one year, whichever comes first.
• Severe Service(4) – Up to 15,000 miles or one year, whichever comes first.
It makes perfect sense to me.
Quote:
SERVICE LIFE
AMSOIL Synthetic 10W-30 Motor Oil is recommended for extended drain intervals in unmodified(1), mechanically sound(2) gasoline fueled vehicles as follows:
• Normal Service(3) – Up to 25,000 miles or one year, whichever comes first.
• Severe Service(4) – Up to 15,000 miles or one year, whichever comes first.
It makes perfect sense to me.
Most diesel engines have huge sumps and do few cold starts. Diesel oils also are designed to suspend solids (soot). Gas engines have tiny sumps and normally have many more cold starts than diesels. So the gas engines are actually harder on the oil than diesels since the quantity of the oil is much smaller.
Originally Posted By: blakeinspace
John, thanks for the replies. Believe me... I'd prefer that my motor did not burn a drop... I didn't know it was a consumer when I bought it. I asked the dealership about it... they claimed it was well within tolerence... (if you want a shocking laugh... that number was 1 qt/1000 miles.) Since being an owner of an LSx series motor... I have learned they generally burn oil at about my rate and throw a lot of copper. Not really too much I can do about it at this point other than not buy GM again.
I too have a japanese import (Infinit I-30 with 226k on the odometer) that sips oil about as frugally as your Camry. I guess it is something to do with manufacturer tolerances.
blake, I just want to throw a few comments in here for what they're worth...
GM is not the only manufacturer with that kind of figure for oil consumption. I have read many owner's manuals with that same (or similar) laughable figure in them. GM's, Toyota's, Nissan's, Mercedes, VW's, BMW's, etc have had some off the wall figure like that. Honestly, it's just to avoid warranty claims where possible. They don't want to fix it if they don't absolutely have to. Simple as that.
I can also offer you some other examples of my own personal experiences. I have a 2002 Chev Venture van that I use for towing. 220,000 km on the clock and counting. Oil consumption? 1 qt per 10,000 miles. Only had one problem with it since my mother purchased it brand new - intake manifold gaskets. Still runs great.
My brother has a 2003 Vibe (aka Toyota Matrix) with the 1.8L Toyota Corolla engine. We can't keep enough oil in there. 1 qt / 1500 miles or so. Pretty awful if you ask me. Not abused either. Very well cared for, and conservative OCI's with good oil. After some Amsoil Engine flush treatments, and a switch to 0W40, it's pretty good now (1 qt / 2500 miles - much more manageable). Later I found out that many of these engines were plauged with ring problems (undersized pistons, oversized rings, and a lot consumption that results). Not exactly what I'd expect from a company as highly regarded as Toyota.
My Altima burns oil sometimes. When I drive it gently, or mostly in the city (which I don't really do much of anymore), it usually burns next to nothing. But for the past few years, I've been commuting 70 miles per day, all highway, some stop and go traffic, the rest 90 mph cruising, and some passing. It uses 1qt / 4000 miles under these circumstances. My old 96 3.3L V6 Intrepid didn't burn nearly as much under the same circumstances.
You have a good car. Keep it full, as it will reduce fuel loading, temps, and thus reduce consumption and associated ring deposits.
John, thanks for the replies. Believe me... I'd prefer that my motor did not burn a drop... I didn't know it was a consumer when I bought it. I asked the dealership about it... they claimed it was well within tolerence... (if you want a shocking laugh... that number was 1 qt/1000 miles.) Since being an owner of an LSx series motor... I have learned they generally burn oil at about my rate and throw a lot of copper. Not really too much I can do about it at this point other than not buy GM again.
I too have a japanese import (Infinit I-30 with 226k on the odometer) that sips oil about as frugally as your Camry. I guess it is something to do with manufacturer tolerances.
blake, I just want to throw a few comments in here for what they're worth...
GM is not the only manufacturer with that kind of figure for oil consumption. I have read many owner's manuals with that same (or similar) laughable figure in them. GM's, Toyota's, Nissan's, Mercedes, VW's, BMW's, etc have had some off the wall figure like that. Honestly, it's just to avoid warranty claims where possible. They don't want to fix it if they don't absolutely have to. Simple as that.
I can also offer you some other examples of my own personal experiences. I have a 2002 Chev Venture van that I use for towing. 220,000 km on the clock and counting. Oil consumption? 1 qt per 10,000 miles. Only had one problem with it since my mother purchased it brand new - intake manifold gaskets. Still runs great.
My brother has a 2003 Vibe (aka Toyota Matrix) with the 1.8L Toyota Corolla engine. We can't keep enough oil in there. 1 qt / 1500 miles or so. Pretty awful if you ask me. Not abused either. Very well cared for, and conservative OCI's with good oil. After some Amsoil Engine flush treatments, and a switch to 0W40, it's pretty good now (1 qt / 2500 miles - much more manageable). Later I found out that many of these engines were plauged with ring problems (undersized pistons, oversized rings, and a lot consumption that results). Not exactly what I'd expect from a company as highly regarded as Toyota.
My Altima burns oil sometimes. When I drive it gently, or mostly in the city (which I don't really do much of anymore), it usually burns next to nothing. But for the past few years, I've been commuting 70 miles per day, all highway, some stop and go traffic, the rest 90 mph cruising, and some passing. It uses 1qt / 4000 miles under these circumstances. My old 96 3.3L V6 Intrepid didn't burn nearly as much under the same circumstances.
You have a good car. Keep it full, as it will reduce fuel loading, temps, and thus reduce consumption and associated ring deposits.
il_signore97 ...commuting 70 miles per day said:
Originally Posted By: TaterandNoodles
You think its weird they would recommend the same mileage as the severe service interval for all of the gasoline engine oils except SSO and XL line?
Quote:
SERVICE LIFE
AMSOIL Synthetic 10W-30 Motor Oil is recommended for extended drain intervals in unmodified(1), mechanically sound(2) gasoline fueled vehicles as follows:
• Normal Service(3) – Up to 25,000 miles or one year, whichever comes first.
• Severe Service(4) – Up to 15,000 miles or one year, whichever comes first.
It makes perfect sense to me.
hey tater... no, not that. My apologies for not being clear.
This run was on Amsoil ACD, a diesel oil. My question is about the limits from the Amsoil website... about diesel interval vs. gasoline interval.
"SERVICE LIFE
AMSOIL Synthetic 10W-30/SAE 30 Heavy Duty Diesel Oil (ACD) is recommended for extended drain intervals in engines that are unmodified and in good operating condition.
Diesel Engine Service
Three times (3X) OEM* recommendation, not to exceed 50,000 miles/600 hours or one year, whichever comes first. Drain intervals may be extended further with oil analysis.
Gasoline Engine Service
Two times (2X) OEM* recommendation, not to exceed 15,000 miles or one year, whichever comes first."
http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/acd.aspx
So in a Mercedes 300D... I (max recommendation) could go 45k, but in my good ole gassy, same oil... only 15k? And that is why I referenced thinking that diesel motors were 'dirtier'...
You think its weird they would recommend the same mileage as the severe service interval for all of the gasoline engine oils except SSO and XL line?
Quote:
SERVICE LIFE
AMSOIL Synthetic 10W-30 Motor Oil is recommended for extended drain intervals in unmodified(1), mechanically sound(2) gasoline fueled vehicles as follows:
• Normal Service(3) – Up to 25,000 miles or one year, whichever comes first.
• Severe Service(4) – Up to 15,000 miles or one year, whichever comes first.
It makes perfect sense to me.
hey tater... no, not that. My apologies for not being clear.
This run was on Amsoil ACD, a diesel oil. My question is about the limits from the Amsoil website... about diesel interval vs. gasoline interval.
"SERVICE LIFE
AMSOIL Synthetic 10W-30/SAE 30 Heavy Duty Diesel Oil (ACD) is recommended for extended drain intervals in engines that are unmodified and in good operating condition.
Diesel Engine Service
Three times (3X) OEM* recommendation, not to exceed 50,000 miles/600 hours or one year, whichever comes first. Drain intervals may be extended further with oil analysis.
Gasoline Engine Service
Two times (2X) OEM* recommendation, not to exceed 15,000 miles or one year, whichever comes first."
http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/acd.aspx
So in a Mercedes 300D... I (max recommendation) could go 45k, but in my good ole gassy, same oil... only 15k? And that is why I referenced thinking that diesel motors were 'dirtier'...
Blake I understood. My question to you would be why would you assume that an oil designed for a diesel should perform better then an oil designed for a gasoline engine when used in a gasoline applications?
Don't get me wrong I am driving a car filled with ACD myself. ACD may last 50k miles when used in a diesel application but which application is the question. REDDOG has a sample of schaeffers oil in a diesel application with 100 hours that looks really good. If you check the manufacturer specs that engine holds nearly 9 gallons of oil and specs a 250 hour change interval for dino. For reference 250 hours run at 33 mph average is nearly 9k miles on dino. If your engine held 8 gallons of oil it would look pretty darn good right now and your interval would be considerably longer.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1730261&gonew=1#UNREAD
My little tractor with a 1.3L diesel engine holds 6 quarts of oil. My 1.6L gasser only holds 3.5 quarts. If I could double the capacity of my gasser I should be able to go 30k miles rather then the 15k I can do.
Don't get me wrong I am driving a car filled with ACD myself. ACD may last 50k miles when used in a diesel application but which application is the question. REDDOG has a sample of schaeffers oil in a diesel application with 100 hours that looks really good. If you check the manufacturer specs that engine holds nearly 9 gallons of oil and specs a 250 hour change interval for dino. For reference 250 hours run at 33 mph average is nearly 9k miles on dino. If your engine held 8 gallons of oil it would look pretty darn good right now and your interval would be considerably longer.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1730261&gonew=1#UNREAD
My little tractor with a 1.3L diesel engine holds 6 quarts of oil. My 1.6L gasser only holds 3.5 quarts. If I could double the capacity of my gasser I should be able to go 30k miles rather then the 15k I can do.
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