13,000-mile results are in!

[3 Mad Ponchos]

It's not really what I expected to see, but the oil is carrying on nicely. Replacing the filter seemed to do more for particle counts than for insolubles. The filter change "bought" about 5,000 miles of life -- compare to the 8k sample. No wonder Amsoil wants filter changes with their regimen.

http://oilstudy.spacebears.com

Also note the new VOA for Mobil 1, courtesy of Blackstone.

Cheers, 3MP

 

[TR3-2001SE]

This may generate more questions than answers. If the filter does clean out ware metals then the only true UOA would be done without a filter to see how the oil is doing. Filters become a lot more important to this whole process of oil changes. Very interesting stuff. Can't wait to see what others think of this latest UOA. TBN is very low so maybe it is time to change. Viscosity has risen but not by much. Lead is dropping which is really amazing.

 

[Greaser]

I still think dollar for dollar Mobil rocks!

 

[joee12]

Great stuff Brian!! I have been waiting for the next interval at 14,000 miles. -Joe

BTW, missed you at chat last night -Joe

 

[Terry]

Oil and engine are completely stable in all respects for 13,000 miles. The M1 boost in Calcium is bolstering the TBN and apparant stable wear rates, more so than the filter change.

The M1 reformulation addition made this oil hold out for 3000 miles longer than previously projected.


Insolubles is rising slowly even with the filter change. This is affecting valve guide seal wear and is a yellow flag but not red yet.

FWIW About 12 ounces of LC would bring this oil right back to 0.2 to 0.3 % IMHO. Solvency issue we discussed on the board here. Which would affect the valve guide seal wear I see.

Any change in oil consumption rate and MPG values to report?

Any build up or glaze in PCV hoses or valve ? Any buildup under the oil fill cap ?

Continue but the next sample may be end of the road for this M1 load, in my opinion.

 

[3 Mad Ponchos]

Oil consumption is unchanged. I've noted a drop in mpg lately, but hadn't attributed it to the oil -- could just as well be the near-constant A/C use, or slightly more city miles than normal. Will check for buildup on the 710 cap but off the top of my head I don't recall seeing any last time I topped it off.

Cheers, 3MP

 

[buster]

quote:

---

I still think dollar for dollar Mobil rocks!

---

Man, without a doubt! This report, the other 10k mile Audi UOA, and even the 30k mile Mobil 1 report just proves Mobil 1 is a great oil. There is a reason why Mobil 1 is the world's #1 synthetic motor oil.

BTW, consumption is not as great as once thought. 4oz are taken for each sample so in reality this car has only used 1-1.5qts over the 13k mile period. That is very good. I'm running M1 10w-30 now and have zero consumption so far at 700 miles running at highway speeds this week of 85mph. Can't complain. Rx helped of course.

[ July 12, 2003, 12:37 AM: Message edited by: buster ]

 

[Pablo]

Of course you are only confirming Al Amatuzio here

ironically with the wrong oil

- some doubted my 20K on ASL....

And as usual I disagree with buster....

I have a strange feeling we are going for 20K with the oils and the winner will simply be the one with the least wear metals.

BTW great report and as always: CARRY ON!

 

[buster]

quote:

---

There is a reason why Mobil 1 is the world's #1 synthetic motor oil.

---

I know, I know..marketing from a big oil company plays a part.

I think others are just as good, trust me.

 

[Patman]

It's interesting to see the wear metals come down so much but I doubt it's because the new oil filter is taking out more wear metals, but instead it's because there is so much fresh oil being added this time, and with the stuff that came out, it changed the results that way. In other words, some oil came out, more new oil went in, so the fresh oil diluted things, making the wear metals show lower. So for anyone who does a filter change and then does a UOA later on, it's not a true reflection of how your engine is wearing, it'll make things look better than they really are.

Although the ultimate goal is to help our engines last longer, so for those of you on a one year oil change interval, the mid year oil filter change is still an excellent idea, as you can see here, it breathes new life into the oil in a big way! Just don't expect the UOAs to be a 100% representation that's all.

[ July 12, 2003, 06:52 AM: Message edited by: Patman ]

 

[Patman]

One thing I am curious about though. Calcium and magnesium levels are very high still, but yet the TBN is lower than at the beginning. Perhaps I don't fully understand how TBN is calculated, but how is it that the TBN is lower from new when the additive package at 13k looks better than it did at the beginning?

 

[Patman]

quote:

---

FWIW About 12 ounces of LC would bring this oil right back to 0.2 to 0.3 % IMHO. Solvency issue we discussed on the board here. Which would affect the valve guide seal wear I see.

---

If you don't mind sharing this info with the group, how can you tell there is valve guide seal wear in this UOA?

 

[buster]

Do you think it would have been better to sample the oil every 2-3k to avoid so much makeup oil? Adding 4oz every 1k miles adds up to quite a bit and really doesn't help any. If anything it is alowing this oil to go on further.

 

[3 Mad Ponchos]

If I knew then what I know now, Buster, I might have done 2k intervals.

When I started I didn't expect the oil to last much longer than 7-8k. Therefore 1k intervals seemed perfectly reasonable.

Even so, I think it has been very interesting to see the slight fluctuations over time. And also, when this test is done I will apply the SAE correction to TBN to see what it would have looked like without make-up oil.

Cheers, 3MP

 

[cheetahdriver]

ok, i love being right.

the oil filter change has brought the oil so far back, that with 5k oil filter changes and top offs, you might be able to weld the drain plug up. i agree that this is the main affect amsoil is banking on for their extended drain intervals.

anyone want to bet on oil life now? 20k, 30k? i think insolubles will be what finally gets you to change the oil, which begs the question about filters again. would a different filter brand be better on the extended runs? OTOH, the napa gold is, if their air filters are a guide, one of the better filters out there.

the really funny thing about this is the 5W-30 is not the long drain interval oil for mobil. i will soon have a test back on 10k with the 0W-40 in my miata, will be interesting to see the results and comparison, although the super skate 4 banger to the GM v8 may make more of a difference than the oil.

wonderful test, just wonderful.

 

[Dr. T]

What is the 'full' oil capacity of the Camaro?

 

[Patman]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dr. T:
What is the 'full' oil capacity of the Camaro?

---

The book lists 5.5 quarts, but I know 3MP puts his level at an even 6 here.

 

[3 Mad Ponchos]

Ya, 5.5 never shows up as full on the dippy.

Cheers, 3MP

 

[TooSlick]

3mp,

No big surprise in the drop in wear metal concentration in this data. If you add 1.5 qts of fresh oil to a 6.0 qt sump, you reduce the wear metal concentrations by approx 25%. Run the engine from 12k to 13k miles, and this new concentration should increase by about 8%. So I would expect ALL the wear metal concentrations in your 13k sample to be approx 17% lower than before. I really don't think the new filter is removing submicronic particles. You are simply diluting the sample with fresh oil ....

The most interesting thing to me is the apparent huge difference in the way Blackstone used to do the TBN test and the #'s they are generating now. It certainly puts a bunch of old oil analyses in a different light. I happen to think the new method generates numbers than are much more believable. You will note that even with the addition of 1.5 qts of fresh oil, the TBN dropped from 3.2 to 2.5 in the last 1000 miles. It will be interesting to see how this changes the next time around.

TooSlick
Dixie Synthetics

 

[TooSlick]

Buster,

I think you have to keep some things in perspective regarding this test ....You started with a 6 qt sump and have since added 5 quarts of makeup oil. So I'm not surprised at all the Mobil 1 has lasted for 13,000+ miles. I think a petroleum oil like Schaeffers would easily last 10k+ miles under these conditions and I believe that Bob would agree?

In retrospect, it would have been better to sample every 3k miles with a suction device, so that you weren't adding so much fresh oil. Don't get me wrong, I think this is a very worthwhile and interesting test, but I probably would have configured it a bit differently to make it more demanding ....

TooSlick