10k OCI filters

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: goodtimes
Now that I think about it there is the well known and observed fact oil filters can be prefilled. If it was surface tension preventing oil from passing through the media, it works both directions. It also depends on oil viscosity and temperature, but there is no doubt oil flows through the media only by gravity. So maybe I am not so mistaken as charged, and the gurus here are still just guys figuring things out like everyone else. Maybe it is air lock holding the oil inside, but it is not surface tension.


I think it's some of both ... read on.

The only difference is when the oil is trapped inside the filter, and tries to flow outward through the center tube, there seems to be some kind of slight vacuum or such ("air lock" as you call it) induced that also helps hold the oil inside the filter. One example is on an oil filter that is mounted on the engine vertically with base down (ie, Tacoma, RX-7s, etc). If you punch a hole in the top of the filter can it will drain the guts of the filter, but if you don't it will puke oil all over the place when unscrewed. Kind of like how you can hold fluid inside a straw if you put your finger over the end and then remove it from the drink. The fluid won't drain from the straw until you let your finger off the end (ie, opens it to atmosphere).

All I know is the experiment I did proved that even off the car they will hold all the oil inside the can if the ADBV seals 100%.

 

[901Memphis]

Looks like i have almost 13k on this Fram Ultra, i guess i will push it one more OCI to 16-18k depending on where it takes me. Need to get a new oil filter cutter though.

 

[goodtimes]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
Now that I think about it there is the well known and observed fact oil filters can be prefilled. If it was surface tension preventing oil from passing through the media, it works both directions. It also depends on oil viscosity and temperature, but there is no doubt oil flows through the media only by gravity. So maybe I am not so mistaken as charged, and the gurus here are still just guys figuring things out like everyone else. Maybe it is air lock holding the oil inside, but it is not surface tension.


I think it's some of both ... read on.

The only difference is when the oil is trapped inside the filter, and tries to flow outward through the center tube, there seems to be some kind of slight vacuum or such ("air lock" as you call it) induced that also helps hold the oil inside the filter. One example is on an oil filter that is mounted on the engine vertically with base down (ie, Tacoma, RX-7s, etc). If you punch a hole in the top of the filter can it will drain the guts of the filter, but if you don't it will puke oil all over the place when unscrewed. Kind of like how you can hold fluid inside a straw if you put your finger over the end and then remove it from the drink. The fluid won't drain from the straw until you let your finger off the end (ie, opens it to atmosphere).

All I know is the experiment I did proved that even off the car they will hold all the oil inside the can if the ADBV seals 100%.

Oil viscosity, temperature, and negative air pressure, is the mix, because oil does flow through media under gravity 100%, and I am sorry I said I made a mistake because actually the logic was OK. Especially for filters going 20k like the one I responded to. The 90 Maxima I had had a steel center tube on the filter mount going very close to the top of the filter inside. All filters meant for that car had the same height. This kept the oil in the filter. No relief valve to leak air. Then there are the hundreds of cut open filters that have little oil in them. Then there is your test where oil stayed. So actually I think your test proves an airtight (or no) relief valve, airtight adbv, or dirty media, will keep the oil in place and not that it is only a good against oil adbv. Surface tension only comes into play in the media where air is kept out.
So if a person is intent on proving used filters with good adbv's are not plugged up, and still flow, they need to drill a hole in the top of the can.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: goodtimes

The 90 Maxima I had had a steel center tube on the filter mount going very close to the top of the filter inside. All filters meant for that car had the same height. This kept the oil in the filter. No relief valve to leak air. Then there are the hundreds of cut open filters that have little oil in them. Then there is your test where oil stayed. So actually I think your test proves an airtight (or no) relief valve, airtight adbv, or dirty media, will keep the oil in place and not that it is only a good against oil adbv. Surface tension only comes into play in the media where air is kept out.


The filter I tested was only ran 5,000 miles on an engine that was spotless inside, so I know it wasn't plugged up. The same test could be done on a brand new filter with the same results I saw if the ADBV is sealing 100%.

Originally Posted By: goodtimes

So if a person is intent on proving used filters with good adbv's are not plugged up, and still flow, they need to drill a hole in the top of the can.


Or do like I did in my test, just shove something inside a few of the holes in the base plate to make the ADBV open up. I used Q-tips and folded them in half, then stuck them into 3 of the holes in the base. But drilling a hole in the top will work too.

 

[goodtimes]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: goodtimes

The 90 Maxima I had had a steel center tube on the filter mount going very close to the top of the filter inside. All filters meant for that car had the same height. This kept the oil in the filter. No relief valve to leak air. Then there are the hundreds of cut open filters that have little oil in them. Then there is your test where oil stayed. So actually I think your test proves an airtight (or no) relief valve, airtight adbv, or dirty media, will keep the oil in place and not that it is only a good against oil adbv. Surface tension only comes into play in the media where air is kept out.


The filter I tested was only ran 5,000 miles on an engine that was spotless inside, so I know it wasn't plugged up. The same test could be done on a brand new filter with the same results I saw if the ADBV is sealing 100%.

Originally Posted By: goodtimes

So if a person is intent on proving used filters with good adbv's are not plugged up, and still flow, they need to drill a hole in the top of the can.


Or do like I did in my test, just shove something inside a few of the holes in the base plate to make the ADBV open up. I used Q-tips and folded them in half, then stuck them into 3 of the holes in the base. But drilling a hole in the top will work too.


I do not doubt your test in any way. I also said many filters I have opened after draining had very little oil in them. I also know as you, filters can be prefilled so oil passes through by gravity alone. So I think the relief valve, and the adbv, are sealing the oil from air entry very well in your test. My filters may have not sealed so well, plus some have sat for like a couple years. I have enough experience with plumbing vents in my house to know a stopped vent can stop a sink from flowing nearly 100%. So I learned something, which is why I come here. Next I want to post pictures of cut filters etc, which is another thing to learn. Being older, I have modern machine allergy syndrome.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Yep, if a filter fails the ADBV test then the ADBV is leaking and/or the bypass valve as you mentioned. Typically I would think filters with silicone ADBVs will seal better than nitrile valves.

 

[Olas]

Originally Posted By: IveBeenRued
jk_636, how did you determine that the Fram Ultra, RP, and Purolator Synthetic are in the same class? If I had to rank some of the top filters out there at this time I would do it as such (note: not an extensive list):

Fram Ultra rated at 20 micron @ 99% efficiency for 15K miles.
Amsoil EA rated at 20 micron @ 98.7 efficiency for 15-25K miles.
Mobil 1 rated at 25 micron @ 99.9% efficiency for 15K miles.
Purolator Synthetic rated at 25 micron @ 99% efficiency for 10K miles
Royal Purple rated at 25 micron @ 99% efficiency for an undetermined service interval

So if it were me and I wanted to test the top 3 oil filters I would personally drop the Royal Purple and the Purolator Synthetic because they are both outperformed by at least the Fram Ultra, Amsoil EA, and Mobil 1 oil filters.


Mann outperform all of these filters with 9 micron @ 99.9% efficiency for 11k miles, and have an ADBV that seals completely, keeping the filter full indefinitely.

 

[goodtimes]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: goodtimes

The 90 Maxima I had had a steel center tube on the filter mount going very close to the top of the filter inside. All filters meant for that car had the same height. This kept the oil in the filter. No relief valve to leak air. Then there are the hundreds of cut open filters that have little oil in them. Then there is your test where oil stayed. So actually I think your test proves an airtight (or no) relief valve, airtight adbv, or dirty media, will keep the oil in place and not that it is only a good against oil adbv. Surface tension only comes into play in the media where air is kept out.


The filter I tested was only ran 5,000 miles on an engine that was spotless inside, so I know it wasn't plugged up. The same test could be done on a brand new filter with the same results I saw if the ADBV is sealing 100%.

Originally Posted By: goodtimes

So if a person is intent on proving used filters with good adbv's are not plugged up, and still flow, they need to drill a hole in the top of the can.


Or do like I did in my test, just shove something inside a few of the holes in the base plate to make the ADBV open up. I used Q-tips and folded them in half, then stuck them into 3 of the holes in the base. But drilling a hole in the top will work too.

I meant if some one wants to tell if their media is plugged after say 10-15k of use, drill a hole in the top to see if the oil flows out the outlet. I don't use my filters past 5k, except maybe the new Microgreen I just got, I may. Filters cost so little for the interval for me, not a high mileage driver, I always have more filters around than cars waiting for them.

 

[901Memphis]

Originally Posted By: Olas
Originally Posted By: IveBeenRued
jk_636, how did you determine that the Fram Ultra, RP, and Purolator Synthetic are in the same class? If I had to rank some of the top filters out there at this time I would do it as such (note: not an extensive list):

Fram Ultra rated at 20 micron @ 99% efficiency for 15K miles.
Amsoil EA rated at 20 micron @ 98.7 efficiency for 15-25K miles.
Mobil 1 rated at 25 micron @ 99.9% efficiency for 15K miles.
Purolator Synthetic rated at 25 micron @ 99% efficiency for 10K miles
Royal Purple rated at 25 micron @ 99% efficiency for an undetermined service interval

So if it were me and I wanted to test the top 3 oil filters I would personally drop the Royal Purple and the Purolator Synthetic because they are both outperformed by at least the Fram Ultra, Amsoil EA, and Mobil 1 oil filters.


Mann outperform all of these filters with 9 micron @ 99.9% efficiency for 11k miles, and have an ADBV that seals completely, keeping the filter full indefinitely.



Not possible to achieve that kind of filtration in a full flow filter!

 

[jk_636]

Does anyone have a link to this filter? A filter that offers 99% efficiency at 9 microns takes the cake and makes this whole conversation useles. If what your saying is true I want one for every ICE I own!

FYI...if one was to exist with specs like that, it would obviously only be made by Purolator.....

 

[Olas]

Originally Posted By: jk_636
Does anyone have a link to this filter? A filter that offers 99% efficiency at 9 microns takes the cake and makes this whole conversation useles. If what your saying is true I want one for every ICE I own!

FYI...if one was to exist with specs like that, it would obviously only be made by Purolator.....

Use the search function

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=929689

 

[Olas]

Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Originally Posted By: Olas
Originally Posted By: IveBeenRued
jk_636, how did you determine that the Fram Ultra, RP, and Purolator Synthetic are in the same class? If I had to rank some of the top filters out there at this time I would do it as such (note: not an extensive list):

Fram Ultra rated at 20 micron @ 99% efficiency for 15K miles.
Amsoil EA rated at 20 micron @ 98.7 efficiency for 15-25K miles.
Mobil 1 rated at 25 micron @ 99.9% efficiency for 15K miles.
Purolator Synthetic rated at 25 micron @ 99% efficiency for 10K miles
Royal Purple rated at 25 micron @ 99% efficiency for an undetermined service interval

So if it were me and I wanted to test the top 3 oil filters I would personally drop the Royal Purple and the Purolator Synthetic because they are both outperformed by at least the Fram Ultra, Amsoil EA, and Mobil 1 oil filters.


Mann outperform all of these filters with 9 micron @ 99.9% efficiency for 11k miles, and have an ADBV that seals completely, keeping the filter full indefinitely.



Not possible to achieve that kind of filtration in a full flow filter!


Really? So call out the guy who posted this thread
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=929689

 

[goodtimes]

Someone talking on the phone is not proof of anything, and it is 8 years ago. Mann does not take care of the tearing problem in it's filters in 2015. They put their name on an established well regarded American oil filter maker, who did things right, and proceed to make a defective product.
You would think someone in Germany would wake up, maybe they don't have the internet yet, or the guy on the phone is too old to use it.
There, that keeps the thread alive.