10k Mobil 1 (long)

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Here's what I got at the 10k* mark (9 month). The engine is in a 99 Jeep TJ diven a good mix of highway and local driving. The vehicle drives four 50 mile comutes per week to and from work but has accumulated 69k miles in just 3 years (around 2k per month). The jeep naturally gets more use in the summer due to vacations and general recreational use. Until now (and looking at the data - I must have been off on a few estimates in regard to mileage) I've just changed to oil twice a year in the spring and the fall. I tend to do it just after the last near freezing weather ...and just after the summer heat in the brief moderate temperature season (around 50-65 degrees). The mileage, as mentioned, is somewhat biased to the summer season ...and since the accumulated mileage has averaged 23k per year ...I'm obviously having at least one oil interval that is over 7.5k ..which was my assumed interval. In fact it appears that I've been averaging 12k per oil change (*probably 9k and 15k). I modified the engine with the addtion of a high volume oil pump at 2500 which is when I went to synthetic oil (Mobil 1 in it's various configurations). The engine was further modified last year with the addition of a remote dual oil filter set up from Jegs (PermaCool). I opted for the Chevy style dual mount so I could use the 2 Qt chevy truck filters (Napa Gold #1794). The system now has 9.5 quarts of capacity and has never had any measurable consumption issues.

This is my first analysis. I had also broken my routine on the seasonal oil change. At the normal interval, this time, I merely changed out the filters and topped off the system. This sample was in the engine 9 months ..but given that almost half of my capacity is in the filters themselves ...?????

Anyway ..here it is:

Aluminum 7
Chromium 2
Iron 78
Copper 6
Lead 23
Tin 1
Moly 64
Nickel 2
Maganese 1
Silver 0
Titanium 0
Potassium 2
Boron 75
Silicon 13
Sodium 9
Calcium 2795
Magnesium 183
Phos 773
Zinc 966
HS (?) 0

TBN was at 2.5 ..so it was assumed that this oil was shot.

Blackstone commented that most of the stuff here was normal or perhaps "typical" would be more appropriate a term with the exception of LEAD with was a bit high @ 23 ppm. No coolant or fuel was present.

I've now gone to Delvac 1 and am eager to see results from that during this most recent change over. If the numbers are favorable ...I will extend that drain interval to 9 months and see what that future analysis yields (I'll keep better track on the mileage). I may have to detune this system to make it economical. I may switch to the 1 quart chevy filters to make this work out better for a six month interval if the oil fatigue appears time weighted instead of mileage.

All comments are welcome!
 
What type of oil is this? Didn't Blackstone give you the viscosity?

It's not a good looking report considering your big 9.5 qt capacity (even for a 10K mi interval).

Why the mods and were they done on this interval?
 
Doesn't look good especially with a 9qt. capacity. Iron is way to high and the TBN does say the oil is shot. D1 might do better, but in this engine Amsoil might be a better choice. Stronger additive package for extended drains.

[ April 17, 2003, 10:47 PM: Message edited by: buster ]
 
quote:

What type of oil is this? Didn't Blackstone give you the viscosity?

Mobil 1 10w30

Yes,
SUS Viscosity @ 210 = 60.6
Flashpoint = 410
Fuel no antifreeze
no water
insolubles 0.5
quote:


Why the mods and were they done on this interval?

I've used Mobil 1 since it came out. I didn't like the lower oil pressure that is inherent with synthetics (other oils have caught "down" to this). Some imperical data (a machinest that works on high performance engines - also a neighbor) had noted that although synthetics were great for the valve train (lifters) ..they didn't fair so well for bearings (the oil has evolved, I'm sure). Hence, I was going to react, as many of us do, with overkill. I rarely have less than 40 psi at idle and typically peak out at the 58 psi relief limit at any road speed. The pump has been in since 2500 miles ..or for the past 66,000 miles.

The addition of the added filter media was just the next evolution in that "overkill".

The all encompassing "why" is that I don't believe that the auto manufacturers pay enough attention to lubrication and cooling. I would venture to say that if these two items have ample reserve capacity (for insult) ..that most otherwise soundly designed engines could last indefinitely without major service.
 
quote:

Doesn't look good especially with a 9qt. capacity. Iron is way to high and the TBN does say the oil is shot.

Yes, I was somewhat dismayed by this. I had hoped that the added capacity would lessen any fatique or additive depletion issues. Apparently I was mistaken.

quote:


D1 might do better, but in this engine Amsoil might be a better choice. Stronger additive package for extended drains.

You may be correct. I've normally used Mobil 1 out of some name brand loyalty (it's never let me down) ...but given that Delvac 1 is not widely available in this region (at WallMart anyway in SE Penna) at discount..I may try AMSOIL if the numbers aren't favorable on the next analysis. The cost gap gets pretty narrow between the two when you have to have either Delvac or Amsoil shipped to you (or pay diesel service center $$ for Delvac 1).
 
Can't wait to see the D1 oil at 12,000 miles, try some Amsoil or Mobil 1 oil filters and use a smaller filter or install an Amsoil bypass filter. Your mileage and a heavier duty oil could get you a 1 year 25,000 oil change .
 
Gary,

The regular Amsoil 10w30, "ATM" works very well in these Jeep engines. With a 9.5 qt sump capacity, you should be able to run a full year between changes and still see very low wear numbers. Iron and Lead are very high here, given the enlarged sump capacity.

TooSlick
Dixie Synthetics
 
Well, I was about to say good report given the miles but there are two factors that lean it towards below expected IMO. First, your sump capacity is up to 9 quarts which is probalby double of the OEM

Second, you have a dual remote bypass which should make the numbers look absolutely fantastic and, in fact, they looked no better then an ave sump and normal spin on filter. Hmm, is this a bypass filter or simply a dual filter setup using regular larger capacity spin on filters. If just a dual setup this may lead one to believe that dual filters peform no better then a single spin on as the filters basically do nothing in captureing 1-5 micron particles. . Now if a true bypass then it really is not performing.

If this were my set up I would reevaluate what oil I am using and definitely the change interval. The bypass does not appear to have much affect in your engine.

[ April 18, 2003, 09:18 AM: Message edited by: Spector ]
 
I don't think it has bypass...just two full-flows...
Pretty poor results, especially considering the amount of oil in the system.
Not sure that any oil would make the HUGE improvement that is needed here.
Didn't someone say that just blindly installing a high volume pump can do more harm than good?
dunno.gif
 
I have not seen any better results on analysis with oversize full-flow filters. Use the factory recommend filter. If you want additional cleaning and capacity, add a bypass. Over 2000 responses to full flow filters in that forum on this site, and this analysis proves my theory, go with the recommended ff and your engine will survive as good or better. Analysis talks, theory and specs are just paper comparisons.
On this engine if you have room for a dual FF head and bracket, you definetly have room for a bypass filter. Money well spent on a proven method to clean the oil. JMO
 
vetteman - I respectfully disagree - I think on a gas turbo with a smallish oil sump, adding two LARGE full flow filters is a huge return on investment....

I can't speak for this set-up - but the oil looked rather tired for the size of the sump. I think 3madpancho's study will talk to us about M1 at 10K miles.

Not sure what to say about the aftermarket oil pump - but where is the Mo? (protection and ppm)
 
You don't say, but I'm assuming this is the 4.0 inline six? If so, I might buck some of the folks saying this is a "bad" result. Care to post Blackstones Universal Averages just for a comparison?

Every analysis I have seen on this engine has high iron. My last analysis with 3500 miles on an '88 Cherokee with the 4.0l had an iron in the low 50's. I have been told by several reliable sources that on this engine, and that interval that 20-30 would be an excellent result. That seems high compared to a lot of other engines, but is very typical for this "tractor" motor. I'm also guessing like just about everyone that this winter was on the colder side, which makes the numbers look even worse.

Lead does look a little high, but again, this engine seems to throw out higher numbers than most.

TBN is shot, the oil is done on this measurement.

Isn't the sump capacity stock 6 qts? Then only a 1/3 of your capacity now is from the dual remote setup.

[ April 18, 2003, 10:45 AM: Message edited by: MNgopher ]
 

quote:

The cost gap gets pretty narrow between the two when you have to have either Delvac or Amsoil shipped to you (or pay diesel service center $$ for Delvac 1).
Try here:
PPC - Located in Richland Pa. (20 miles west of Reading on Rt. 422 (717-866-5588). This is where I get mine. Its 4-gal jugs for $82

Closer to you in Harleysville. 215-513-1891

[ April 26, 2003, 02:30 PM: Message edited by: BOBISTHEOILGUY ]
 
Pablo,
Look at the complete thing I wrote. I stated that if you have the room for a dual ff setup, you have the room for a bypass and it will give you the extra capacity and some cooling, plus help keep your wear metals in check. Cost is only slightly higher for a single bypass. Just another way to increase capacity, get additional cooling and help keep the oil clean.

No I don't sell bypass filters, have to contact an Amsoil Dealer or Ralph Wood for that.
 
Looks to me like it's SL formula TriSynthetic, as it has moly in it, but also has magnesium, something SuperSyn has very little of (and SJ TriSynthetic has no moly)
 
When we put in high volume oil pumps in high performance cars,we would allways hog out the drain-back holes in order to get to oil off the top end and back into the sump as fast as possible.I don't know if this is your problem,too much oil up top and not enough in the sump to lube the cylinder walls,but could be.
 
Or ...

The Jeep engines don't particularly care for Mobil 1. Perhaps they like a thicker/heavier hydrodynamic film?
dunno.gif


Although, if this were the case, I'd suspect lead would be higher from the bearings.

--- Bror Jace
 
what m1 was this?

tri-syn or super syn? If supersyn, then it might mean Mobil has now skimped on its M1 like Castrol Syntec - possibly using a group III/IV blend?

[ April 18, 2003, 12:53 PM: Message edited by: metroplex ]
 
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