0W20 oil

[Oil Changer]

Well then, you confirmed via the link what you knew all along. Dump in Mobil 1 15W-50. When your truck hits 167K like your other vehicles, write back and tell us how right you were.

You say, "Mercedes went to these very thin and wide temp range oils as a marketing ploy in my opinion." Marketing ploy? In your opinion, what does MB stand to gain?

You also say, " I [sic] quick reading seems to indicate that 0W20 is not the oil for all driving conditions and environments."

and

"I think it is clear they are not mandating the use of 0W-20 for all users. Any contray opinions?"

That's all well and good but how much time are you going to spend using this vehicle in such extreme circumstances that the 0W-20 will not be valid?

Why is it that you feel that 0W-20 will not protect your engine?

 

[Torrid]

Originally Posted By: BeerCan

Why do you suppose toyota used and arrow, instead of a blunt line in that chart?
Why no mention of any other oil grade?


It sounds like they didn't intend any other grades to be used. GM is also adamant not to use anything other than 5w30 in any of the performance cars even with extremely high heat. Synthetics are very resistant to thermal breakdown and the manufacturers definitely trust them to hold up. I wouldn't worry about it and follow the manual. I used to be apprehensive to use anything lighter than a xw40 in my LS1, but I get great oil pressure and a slight bump in fuel economy just using the recommended 5w30. No brainer if you ask me.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: ron in sc
Originally Posted By: JAC43
What does this same engine on different continents use?

Link




Thanks for link.

It confirms what I thought. Mercedes went to these very thin and wide temp range oils as a marketing ploy in my opinion.

I would agree with the other posters in the thread you linked to as being right on as far as thin oil being used to meet CAFE standards.

The Pdf posted in the link is as it has always been. Use appropriate oil for temperature range and usage.

It looks like rcy's conclusion is correct.

You are incorrect about Mercedes motivation in the the adoption of as you put it, "very thin and wide temp' range oils as a marketing ploy". That remark and others reveals a misunderstanding of modern motor oils you don't appear to have any interest changing.. Mercedes like most German manufacturers specifies quite viscose motor oils with a HTHSV of no less than 3.5cP. The 0W rating is more an indication of the use of high quality synthetic base oils with a high viscosity index than anything else. It's for the same reason that most premium race oils used today have a 0W rating.

Your equally incorrect CAFE remark doen't explain why Toyota and other manufacturers have backed spec'd 20wt oil up to 10years or more in some cases.

 

[ron in sc]

All fair questions.


Quote:
You say, "Mercedes went to these very thin and wide temp range oils as a marketing ploy in my opinion." Marketing ploy?


I was told that with say an oil that was good from 0 degrees to 100 degrees the customer would not have to change oil in places where they have wide temperature changes. So it cost less for the customer to maintain car. I was also told it helps manf. get better gas mileage and lower emission standards

Quote:
That's all well and good but how much time are you going to spend using this vehicle in such extreme circumstances that the 0W-20 will not be valid.


Vehicle will be driven about 5K per year and will be used to tow on occasion. As long as my ML last it will be used for towing.




Quote:
Why is it that you feel that 0W-20 will not protect your engine?


When I first got my 99 ML one grade of oil was recommened and then later they changed it to I think it was 0W40. With the heat and the towing I do I just felt that thicker oil was better. So I use 15W50. I figure if it was good enough for my 1997 C2S it was good enough for my other mercedes vehicles.

I know I am no expert and tend not to change what I've been doing for a very long time.

Why does Toyota in Australia recommend oil weight and viscosity for 1GR-FE engine based on temperature and usage?

 

[kschachn]

"I just felt". That's a great way to make decisions on motor oil.

Originally Posted By: ron in sc

When I first got my 99 ML one grade of oil was recommend and then later they changed it to I think it was 0W40. With the heat and the towing I do I just felt that thicker oil was better. So I use 15W50. I figure if it was good enough for my 1997 C2S it was good enough for my other Mercedes vehicles.

I know I am no expert and tend not to change what I've been doing for a very long time

 

[wally6934]

Originally Posted By: ron in sc
*The 20 in 0W-20 indicates the viscosity characteristic of the oil when the oil is at high temperature. An oil with a higher viscosity (one with a higher value) may be betterr suited if the vehicle is operated at hgih speeds, or uder extreme load conditions.

My vehicle will be operated in temps exceeding 100 degrees F and never in temps below say 20 degrees F.

I think it is clear they are not mandating the use of 0W-20 for all users. Any contray opinions?




It is perfectly clear to me that Toyota says you can go to a 5w30 or a 10w30. What it comes down to is, do you need it. You will easily get 300K miles from a 0W-20 and maybe get .5% mpg increase. I see the trade off’s as follows, I would not run a dino 0W-20 in you car but i would run a conventional 10w30. The 5W or 10w30 grade will give you a little more protection from engine abuse like jack rabbit starts and neutral drops, or heavy towing. If you want to be super safe and your goal is extreme longevity and your not worried about a few dollars more a year, go with a quality 5W or 10w30 synthetic like Mobile or Pennzoil.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: ron in sc
In my manual the arrow heads end at the temps indicated; they do not go on to infinity. If Toyota wanted to indicate the temp range was higher or lower they would have made a chart indicating as much.


So, under your view of things, what does Toyota recommend when the thermometer dips below -40? Do they prohibit operation of the vehicle?

 

[kschachn]

There's no point in arguing this. If someone thinks that a line with an arrow head "ends" at the arrow head point, then they have no clue. That assertion is one of the dumbest things I have seen on here in a while.

Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: ron in sc
In my manual the arrow heads end at the temps indicated; they do not go on to infinity. If Toyota wanted to indicate the temp range was higher or lower they would have made a chart indicating as much.


So, under your view of things, what does Toyota recommend when the thermometer dips below -40? Do they prohibit operation of the vehicle?

 

[lexus114]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
There's no point in arguing this. If someone thinks that a line with an arrow head "ends" at the arrow head point, then they have no clue. That assertion is one of the dumbest things I have seen on here in a while.

Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: ron in sc
In my manual the arrow heads end at the temps indicated; they do not go on to infinity. If Toyota wanted to indicate the temp range was higher or lower they would have made a chart indicating as much.


So, under your view of things, what does Toyota recommend when the thermometer dips below -40? Do they prohibit operation of the vehicle?




Yup! you must park the vehicle, and prohibit anyone from using it!

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: lexus114
Yup! you must park the vehicle, and prohibit anyone from using it!

First thing tomorrow, I'm going to advise the local Toyota and Lexus dealership to close up shop. After all, their vehicles aren't suitable for our coldest days of the year, even with 0w-20. Apparently, that's what the manual says.

 

[ron in sc]

I spoke with the Toyota Shop Foreman about the right oil and here is what he said:

1-Always use synthetic oil. Page 637 states ILSAC multigrade engine oil.

2-I am not required per the manual or Toyota to use only 0W-20 to maintain my factory warranty. What I am required to do is change the oil that I use at the factory recommended intervals or sooner.

3-He agreed with me that when you drain this very thin oil it comes out like water.

4-He said he did not use these very thin oils in his own cars either.

5-He recommended either 10w30 or 5w30 would be fine for my use,

6-The thinner oils are much less likely to sludge.

7-Toyota has in the past had allegations against it regarding the sludging of engines. This was in all probability the result of the customers’ failure to change their oil at the recommended intervals.

8-Toyota recommends a substantially thinner oil to avoid sludge problems due to the failure of a customer to change the oil at the recommended interval.

9-The thin oil may also give the customer a very small mileage increase.

It’s always amusing although not surprising that a certain number of people will always blindly believe whatever a manufacturer claims about a product or what to use to maintain said product.

 

[rcy]

I know I said I wouldn't post anymore, but I just can't resist...

"It’s always amusing although not surprising that a certain number of people will always blindly believe whatever a shop foreman claims about a product or what to use to maintain said product."

The shop foreman knows more about Toyota's technology than Toyota's engineers...and yet...he's still a shop foreman.

 

[lexus114]

Originally Posted By: rcy
I know I said I wouldn't post anymore, but I just can't resist...

"It’s always amusing although not surprising that a certain number of people will always blindly believe whatever a shop foreman claims about a product or what to use to maintain said product."

The shop foreman knows more about Toyota's technology than Toyota's engineers...and yet...he's still a shop foreman.




Hahahaha!!

 

[ron in sc]

I can not resist either.

The shop foreman who has real experience and is not involved with marketing a product is more like to be candid and honest than a person paid directly by Toyota Motor Corp. and bound by maketing issues.

 

[rcy]

Here is some interesting information from the Toyota website. However, I'm sure the shop foreman knows better than the up to date official Toyota Corporation website.

http://www.toyota.com/owners/web/pages/f...c%20Oil#1197616

"Genuine Toyota motor oil 0W-20 utilizes a Toyota-specific additive package that will provide the best results for oil performance and fuel economy. It’s what the engine was designed to use. However, other 0W-20 synthetic oils can be used, even though they aren’t optimized for Toyota engines.

Disclaimer: 2010 and 2011 Tacoma 4-cylinder and 2010 4Runner 4-cylinder with engine 2TR-FE, while synthetic oil vehicles, have oil change intervals of 5000 miles/6 months.

Also, if 0W-20 is not available, 5W-20 oil may be used, but it must be replaced with 0W-20 within 5000 miles/6 months."

"If 0W-20 synthetic oil is not available, 5W-20 petroleum-based oil may be used. However, it must be replaced at 5000 miles with 0W-20 synthetic oil."

 

[Hokiefyd]

I would be highly skeptical of what a technician at a dealership says. Statement #8 is his opinion and nothing else. He didn't engineer the engine in your vehicle, nor did he test or validate different grades of oil in it. He certainly has a right to have and share his opinion, but I wouldn't hang my hat on it.

 

[rcy]

Originally Posted By: ron in sc
I can not resist either.

The shop foreman who has real experience and is not involved with marketing a product is more like to be candid and honest than a person paid directly by Toyota Motor Corp. and bound by maketing issues.


He has real experience in designing and manufacturing an engine and experience in designing and choosing the correct oil for it?

No, more likely he has always run xxW30 in his vehicles and is ignorant of the qualities of the 0W20 oil. His claim that it runs out like water is fairly indicative of his experience with oil, as are his claims regarding the sludge issues in the past as being the reason for the switch to thinner oils.

 

[LeakySeals]

Toyotas have voracious appetites for oil. Will be interesting to see how this 0w20 thing plays out.

 

[AlienBug]

Originally Posted By: ron in sc
It’s always amusing although not surprising that a certain number of people will always blindly believe whatever a manufacturer claims about a product or what to use to maintain said product.


It's always amusing, though not surprising, that a certain number of people will always ignore a manufacturer's instructions on maintaining their product and instead blindly believe what they were told by a guy who works for the manufacturer, or better still, base their maintenance decisions on "I just felt" and "I was told."

 

[kschachn]

This.

Originally Posted By: AlienBug
Originally Posted By: ron in sc
It’s always amusing although not surprising that a certain number of people will always blindly believe whatever a manufacturer claims about a product or what to use to maintain said product.


It's always amusing, though not surprising, that a certain number of people will always ignore a manufacturer's instructions on maintaining their product and instead blindly believe what they were told by a guy who works for the manufacturer, or better still, base their maintenance decisions on "I just felt" and "I was told."