0W-XX vs. 5W-XX and oil for my BMW

[Craig in Canada]

Originally Posted By: BobFout
Originally Posted By: Craig in Canada
While it has been debated, I feel that winter is hardest on the oil. Because of the cold there is more fuel (from running rich in "warm up mode") and water (from higher levels of condensation in the block) getting into the oil. Fuel is just about the worst thing for oil. Because of this, I always like to change after winter.


Have you validated this through UOA?


Validated what? More fuel in the oil? I use Blackstone and their fuel dilution numbers seem...variable. Although I don't do a UOA with every OCI, my post-winter #s come back as "
In terms of water, I'll usually get the beige buildup of goo on the underside of the oil cap during the winter which is a water/oil emulsion from cold weather and condensation on the underside of the VCs and the cap itself. This doesn't happen in the summer.

Is that validated?

I see you are in TN. I think your definition of "winter" and mine differs by quite a bit. I would be willing to bet that fuel dilution and condensation do too.

 

[BobFout]

Originally Posted By: Craig in Canada
Originally Posted By: BobFout
Originally Posted By: Craig in Canada
While it has been debated, I feel that winter is hardest on the oil. Because of the cold there is more fuel (from running rich in "warm up mode") and water (from higher levels of condensation in the block) getting into the oil. Fuel is just about the worst thing for oil. Because of this, I always like to change after winter.


Have you validated this through UOA?


Validated what? More fuel in the oil? I use Blackstone and their fuel dilution numbers seem...variable. Although I don't do a UOA with every OCI, my post-winter #s come back as "
In terms of water, I'll usually get the beige buildup of goo on the underside of the oil cap during the winter which is a water/oil emulsion from cold weather and condensation on the underside of the VCs and the cap itself. This doesn't happen in the summer.

Is that validated?

I see you are in TN. I think your definition of "winter" and mine differs by quite a bit. I would be willing to bet that fuel dilution and condensation do too.



Validated there is enough fuel in the oil to warrant an oil change after winter outside the normal OCI. This would affect wear and viscosity. Are you seeing abnormally high wear levels vs. summer and is the oil not maintaining its viscosity during the winter? Is the flashpoint lower than normal? If you're not seeing these, then no, it's not validated.

Less than 0.5% fuel is essentially none. Fuel dilution and condensation are not about perception or definition, they are hard numbers. It's a very binary thing: is fuel or water affecting viscosity and wear, yes or no?

As far as water in the oil, it'll burn off on its own.

I lived in Illinois for 8 years, and the interior of Alaska for 5 years, I think I know what winters are

 

[Craig in Canada]

Originally Posted By: BobFout
Originally Posted By: Craig in Canada
Originally Posted By: BobFout
Originally Posted By: Craig in Canada
While it has been debated, I feel that winter is hardest on the oil. Because of the cold there is more fuel (from running rich in "warm up mode") and water (from higher levels of condensation in the block) getting into the oil. Fuel is just about the worst thing for oil. Because of this, I always like to change after winter.


Have you validated this through UOA?


Validated what? More fuel in the oil? I use Blackstone and their fuel dilution numbers seem...variable. Although I don't do a UOA with every OCI, my post-winter #s come back as "
In terms of water, I'll usually get the beige buildup of goo on the underside of the oil cap during the winter which is a water/oil emulsion from cold weather and condensation on the underside of the VCs and the cap itself. This doesn't happen in the summer.

Is that validated?

I see you are in TN. I think your definition of "winter" and mine differs by quite a bit. I would be willing to bet that fuel dilution and condensation do too.



Validated there is enough fuel in the oil to warrant an oil change after winter outside the normal OCI. This would affect wear and viscosity. Are you seeing abnormally high wear levels vs. summer and is the oil not maintaining its viscosity during the winter? Is the flashpoint lower than normal? If you're not seeing these, then no, it's not validated.

Less than 0.5% fuel is essentially none. Fuel dilution and condensation are not about perception or definition, they are hard numbers. It's a very binary thing: is fuel or water affecting viscosity and wear, yes or no?

As far as water in the oil, it'll burn off on its own.

I lived in Illinois for 8 years, and the interior of Alaska for 5 years, I think I know what winters are

You're asking me to provide a burden of proof as if I stated "everyone in the world must change their oil after winter".

I said no such thing.

I said "I feel that winter is hardest on the oil" as in 'compared to summer'.

Just because it still manages to lubricate doesn't mean that winter isn't harder on oil than summer. If someone was looking to change once a year (and it sounded like the original poster on this thread might be close to that situation and is why I felt it was ON TOPIC) *I* feel that it should be after winter and *I* feel better changing the oil which has been exposed to water and fuel over the season based on my observations.

Just because I don't have a car with a fuel dilution problem and I don't idle it for a half hour a day warming it up doesn't mean that there isn't "more" fuel in the oil from winter use than summer use.

There's already a whole thread here somewhere dedicated to the debate of pre or post-winter oil changes.

 

[BobFout]

Fair enough. You are of course allowed to change your oil whenever you wish.

I asked the questions I did to get people thinking, to not blindly follow suit without data and analysis for their conditions.

 

[Takechan]

Yay, I finally got my oil.

I'll take pictures of the old filter after I change oil tomorrow.

It's been 12,000 km / 7,456 miles and about 11 months since the last change.

When I shake the Castrol it sounds like something very thin compared to the old 5W-40 leftover from the last oil change (Esso Ultron 5W-40 bought more than 1,5 years ago)

Castrol Edge 5W-30 BMW LL-04 (API-SM / ACEA-A3)

OEM BMW filter

 

[Quattro Pete]

"We love machines?" Is this their current slogan in Europe? I guess it's better than "Think with your dipstick!"

How much oil does your engine take?

 

[BobFout]

Originally Posted By: BobFout
Fair enough. You are of course allowed to change your oil whenever you wish.

I asked the questions I did to get people thinking, to not blindly follow suit without data and analysis for their conditions.


A better way for me to put this: Yes, winter is harder on oil. But if it does not affect the oil's ability to do its job (the case for most people), there is no point in changing oil outside of the normal intervals. That's what this boils down to. Numbers, not feelings.

/EDIT: I see what you mean about changing once a year, though for most what season they change isn't an issue.

 

[Takechan]

Quattro Pete,

About 6.5L, so I have a little extra.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Nice. Mine takes about the same.

 

[Johnny]

Originally Posted By: Takechan

One last thing, someone on another BMW forum mentioned LE (Lubrication Engineers) and it sounds like it's even better than what i've ordered. Anyone got any experiences with that? I'm not going to buy it because it's quite expensive.


LE makes some exceptional products, but I cannot imagine what product someone would recommend for use in your BMW. The Castrol Edge you bought is more suitable for your application.

 

[addyguy]

If you don't mind me asking, how much did that oil cost you?