05 f150 5.4 towing
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certainly the drop in oil pressure is due to towing. and 5000 lbs, while fairly heavy, is nowhere near the limit for this truck. the numbers seem to be completely within spec. I'd probably bump up to a 5-30 but you certainly dont have to.
I don't think it's a drop in oil pressure so much as it is the oil temperature not coming up to temperature when not towing
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I never experienced an oil pressure drop in my 2010 5.4L 3V when towing and in its 160K miles about 45% of that was spent towing. I used 5W-20 oils from 0K to about 105K and then switched over to 0W-20. I am not saying that you are not experiencing a drop in pressure, just wanted to share a different experience with the 3V.
Originally Posted By: Miller88
I don't think it's a drop in oil pressure so much as it is the oil temperature not coming up to temperature when not towing
How does the oil not get up to temperature when not towing? Is the coolant also afflicted?
I don't think it's a drop in oil pressure so much as it is the oil temperature not coming up to temperature when not towing
How does the oil not get up to temperature when not towing? Is the coolant also afflicted?
OVERKILL
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Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: Miller88
I don't think it's a drop in oil pressure so much as it is the oil temperature not coming up to temperature when not towing
How does the oil not get up to temperature when not towing? Is the coolant also afflicted?
Depends on cooler design, sump volume....etc. My M5 was always running "low" oil temps that would go up if you sat in bumper to bumper in the heat of the summer with no airflow or really beat on it. Driving it around the oil temp was a fair bit cooler.
Originally Posted By: Miller88
I don't think it's a drop in oil pressure so much as it is the oil temperature not coming up to temperature when not towing
How does the oil not get up to temperature when not towing? Is the coolant also afflicted?
Depends on cooler design, sump volume....etc. My M5 was always running "low" oil temps that would go up if you sat in bumper to bumper in the heat of the summer with no airflow or really beat on it. Driving it around the oil temp was a fair bit cooler.
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: Miller88
I don't think it's a drop in oil pressure so much as it is the oil temperature not coming up to temperature when not towing
How does the oil not get up to temperature when not towing? Is the coolant also afflicted?
Depends on cooler design, sump volume....etc. My M5 was always running "low" oil temps that would go up if you sat in bumper to bumper in the heat of the summer with no airflow or really beat on it. Driving it around the oil temp was a fair bit cooler.
The oil temp in normal driving in normal conditions is the normal oil temp. If it's higher than that it's higher than normal.
Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: Miller88
I don't think it's a drop in oil pressure so much as it is the oil temperature not coming up to temperature when not towing
How does the oil not get up to temperature when not towing? Is the coolant also afflicted?
Depends on cooler design, sump volume....etc. My M5 was always running "low" oil temps that would go up if you sat in bumper to bumper in the heat of the summer with no airflow or really beat on it. Driving it around the oil temp was a fair bit cooler.
The oil temp in normal driving in normal conditions is the normal oil temp. If it's higher than that it's higher than normal.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: Miller88
I don't think it's a drop in oil pressure so much as it is the oil temperature not coming up to temperature when not towing
How does the oil not get up to temperature when not towing? Is the coolant also afflicted?
Depends on cooler design, sump volume....etc. My M5 was always running "low" oil temps that would go up if you sat in bumper to bumper in the heat of the summer with no airflow or really beat on it. Driving it around the oil temp was a fair bit cooler.
The oil temp in normal driving in normal conditions is the normal oil temp. If it's higher than that it's higher than normal.
Guess it depends on how you look at it. "Normal" has a value assigned to it which is generally about the same as or a bit higher than coolant temp. So say roughly 190-210F. When oil temp is below that, it is "low" using that definition. Also, oil temp takes longer to come up than coolant temp if you don't have a heat exchanger.
Using your definition, two identical engines fitted to different platforms could have vastly different "normal" oil temperatures. Two identical vehicles, one short tripped in town and one driven for extended highway bouts would have different "normal" oil temperatures. Two identical cars, one in Arizona and one in Saskatchewan would have different "normal" oil temperatures.
I think this is a case of "textbook normal" vs the average temp the oil runs at in a given application, which is what you are defining as "normal". One is a set range of temperatures, the other is a variable that is manipulated by a myriad of inputs.
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: Miller88
I don't think it's a drop in oil pressure so much as it is the oil temperature not coming up to temperature when not towing
How does the oil not get up to temperature when not towing? Is the coolant also afflicted?
Depends on cooler design, sump volume....etc. My M5 was always running "low" oil temps that would go up if you sat in bumper to bumper in the heat of the summer with no airflow or really beat on it. Driving it around the oil temp was a fair bit cooler.
The oil temp in normal driving in normal conditions is the normal oil temp. If it's higher than that it's higher than normal.
Guess it depends on how you look at it. "Normal" has a value assigned to it which is generally about the same as or a bit higher than coolant temp. So say roughly 190-210F. When oil temp is below that, it is "low" using that definition. Also, oil temp takes longer to come up than coolant temp if you don't have a heat exchanger.
Using your definition, two identical engines fitted to different platforms could have vastly different "normal" oil temperatures. Two identical vehicles, one short tripped in town and one driven for extended highway bouts would have different "normal" oil temperatures. Two identical cars, one in Arizona and one in Saskatchewan would have different "normal" oil temperatures.
I think this is a case of "textbook normal" vs the average temp the oil runs at in a given application, which is what you are defining as "normal". One is a set range of temperatures, the other is a variable that is manipulated by a myriad of inputs.
This doesn't sound like anything that would concern me. 30 psi at idle is plenty, and 5k lbs isn't a heavy load for that truck. Moving up to a 5W-30 isn't going to hurt anything, but it doesn't sound like it's really necessary either.
Heck, 30 psi is almost double what the Jeep shows at hot idle on the gauge (and if I'm towing or otherwise get it good and hot, I've seen idle pressures in the single digits!)
Heck, 30 psi is almost double what the Jeep shows at hot idle on the gauge (and if I'm towing or otherwise get it good and hot, I've seen idle pressures in the single digits!)
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Guess it depends on how you look at it. "Normal" has a value assigned to it which is generally about the same as or a bit higher than coolant temp. So say roughly 190-210F. When oil temp is below that, it is "low" using that definition. Also, oil temp takes longer to come up than coolant temp if you don't have a heat exchanger.
Using your definition, two identical engines fitted to different platforms could have vastly different "normal" oil temperatures. Two identical vehicles, one short tripped in town and one driven for extended highway bouts would have different "normal" oil temperatures. Two identical cars, one in Arizona and one in Saskatchewan would have different "normal" oil temperatures.
I think this is a case of "textbook normal" vs the average temp the oil runs at in a given application, which is what you are defining as "normal". One is a set range of temperatures, the other is a variable that is manipulated by a myriad of inputs.
Identical engines in different platforms should have different cooling strategies. My F150 5.0 has an oil to water cooler and a bigger radiator. The Mustang GT 5.0 doesn't. Step up to the TrackPack and you get an oil cooler and bigger rad.
Like you alluded to "normal" is a range. Maybe optimal is a better term. Anyway, if your cooling system is so good the oil doesn't get to proper temp under normal driving conditions, in your area, you should fix it
Guess it depends on how you look at it. "Normal" has a value assigned to it which is generally about the same as or a bit higher than coolant temp. So say roughly 190-210F. When oil temp is below that, it is "low" using that definition. Also, oil temp takes longer to come up than coolant temp if you don't have a heat exchanger.
Using your definition, two identical engines fitted to different platforms could have vastly different "normal" oil temperatures. Two identical vehicles, one short tripped in town and one driven for extended highway bouts would have different "normal" oil temperatures. Two identical cars, one in Arizona and one in Saskatchewan would have different "normal" oil temperatures.
I think this is a case of "textbook normal" vs the average temp the oil runs at in a given application, which is what you are defining as "normal". One is a set range of temperatures, the other is a variable that is manipulated by a myriad of inputs.
Identical engines in different platforms should have different cooling strategies. My F150 5.0 has an oil to water cooler and a bigger radiator. The Mustang GT 5.0 doesn't. Step up to the TrackPack and you get an oil cooler and bigger rad.
Like you alluded to "normal" is a range. Maybe optimal is a better term. Anyway, if your cooling system is so good the oil doesn't get to proper temp under normal driving conditions, in your area, you should fix it
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Honestly think that most of what you are seeing is normal, particulalry now that the OP told us the oil temp goes up 10-15 degrees when towing (which somewhat mirrors my results).
It isn't a matter of the oil not reaching "normal" temps under non-towing conditions. The oil temp in my '04 varies considerably with the ambient air temp even when the coolant temp is identical. Oil temp can be 170ish in cold winter conditions and over 200 in the summer - and any increase in temp results in slightly lower oil pressure. Similarly, slap on a trailer and work it hard, and the oil temp can be 10+ degrees warmer than non-towing, and still be running nearly identical coolant temps.
Normal in these rigs depends greatly on the ambient air condition and how hard the engine is being worked. I can run all day with the coolant at 194, and the oil temp will never get over 172 in the winter, when in the summer it goes over 200 with the same load.
Honestly don't believe there is anything to be concerned about here.
It isn't a matter of the oil not reaching "normal" temps under non-towing conditions. The oil temp in my '04 varies considerably with the ambient air temp even when the coolant temp is identical. Oil temp can be 170ish in cold winter conditions and over 200 in the summer - and any increase in temp results in slightly lower oil pressure. Similarly, slap on a trailer and work it hard, and the oil temp can be 10+ degrees warmer than non-towing, and still be running nearly identical coolant temps.
Normal in these rigs depends greatly on the ambient air condition and how hard the engine is being worked. I can run all day with the coolant at 194, and the oil temp will never get over 172 in the winter, when in the summer it goes over 200 with the same load.
Honestly don't believe there is anything to be concerned about here.
OVERKILL
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Originally Posted By: hatt
Identical engines in different platforms should have different cooling strategies. My F150 5.0 has an oil to water cooler and a bigger radiator. The Mustang GT 5.0 doesn't.
Exactly. So those are just two of the variables I spoke of in terms observed oil temperature. Depending on how they are driven, they will see different average oil temperatures. There are a number of inputs. Your F-150 should have a more consistent average oil temperature than the Mustang due to the heat exchanger. That's what I've noticed with my SRT-8, since it uses a coolant/oil heat exchanger that isn't exposed and employs no additional air cooling, the oil temp is very close to coolant temp the majority of the time and comes up to temp very quickly.
Originally Posted By: hatt
Step up to the TrackPack and you get an oil cooler and bigger rad.
Yup, and again a different range of operating oil temperatures because of that.
Originally Posted By: hatt
Like you alluded to "normal" is a range.
It wasn't an allusion, rather a statement. Normal is a range of temperature that the oil is meant to be operated at. There are operating conditions that will prevent the oil from reaching that temperature range, be they ambient related or driving style related. A car that perpetually drives in-town short trips a few km at a time but requires 20 minutes for the oil temp to come up will never, under those conditions, experience "normal" oil temperatures.
Originally Posted By: hatt
Maybe optimal is a better term. Anyway, if your cooling system is so good the oil doesn't get to proper temp under normal driving conditions, in your area, you should fix it
You can't fix it, that's the way it operates and was designed. It had a thermostat on the oil circuit that was open if the oil was cold to heat it and would open if the oil was hot to cool it. But in between those two extremes the oil would, under normal driving conditions with reasonable airflow, run "cool". In stop and go it would come up to the "normal" range.
Can, and do you track oil temperature on your truck? Do your operating conditions vary? My Expedition has no way to monitor oil temp but when it is -30C, without load, it can't even keep the coolant up to temp. It just has too much coolant to heat and too many ways for that heat to be shed. Yes, that's an extreme example, but oil temperature varies the same way, particularly when there's no heat exchanger and you have an exposed, or finned sump.
Yes, perhaps "optimal" is indeed a better term. The optimal range is what would be targeted for "normal" oil temperatures. Observed average oil temperatures, or operational "normal" may not be optimal
Identical engines in different platforms should have different cooling strategies. My F150 5.0 has an oil to water cooler and a bigger radiator. The Mustang GT 5.0 doesn't.
Exactly. So those are just two of the variables I spoke of in terms observed oil temperature. Depending on how they are driven, they will see different average oil temperatures. There are a number of inputs. Your F-150 should have a more consistent average oil temperature than the Mustang due to the heat exchanger. That's what I've noticed with my SRT-8, since it uses a coolant/oil heat exchanger that isn't exposed and employs no additional air cooling, the oil temp is very close to coolant temp the majority of the time and comes up to temp very quickly.
Originally Posted By: hatt
Step up to the TrackPack and you get an oil cooler and bigger rad.
Yup, and again a different range of operating oil temperatures because of that.
Originally Posted By: hatt
Like you alluded to "normal" is a range.
It wasn't an allusion, rather a statement. Normal is a range of temperature that the oil is meant to be operated at. There are operating conditions that will prevent the oil from reaching that temperature range, be they ambient related or driving style related. A car that perpetually drives in-town short trips a few km at a time but requires 20 minutes for the oil temp to come up will never, under those conditions, experience "normal" oil temperatures.
Originally Posted By: hatt
Maybe optimal is a better term. Anyway, if your cooling system is so good the oil doesn't get to proper temp under normal driving conditions, in your area, you should fix it
You can't fix it, that's the way it operates and was designed. It had a thermostat on the oil circuit that was open if the oil was cold to heat it and would open if the oil was hot to cool it. But in between those two extremes the oil would, under normal driving conditions with reasonable airflow, run "cool". In stop and go it would come up to the "normal" range.
Can, and do you track oil temperature on your truck? Do your operating conditions vary? My Expedition has no way to monitor oil temp but when it is -30C, without load, it can't even keep the coolant up to temp. It just has too much coolant to heat and too many ways for that heat to be shed. Yes, that's an extreme example, but oil temperature varies the same way, particularly when there's no heat exchanger and you have an exposed, or finned sump.
Yes, perhaps "optimal" is indeed a better term. The optimal range is what would be targeted for "normal" oil temperatures. Observed average oil temperatures, or operational "normal" may not be optimal
No I can't track oil temps. I'm sure I don't have to worry about them up getting up to temp however. It's 85 degrees today.
Shouldn't you get one of the radiator covers like the big rigs use when you're driving in arctic conditions?
Shouldn't you get one of the radiator covers like the big rigs use when you're driving in arctic conditions?
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on a normal day driving on the highway for over an hour I see a oil temp of 180 to 190
you can see the pressure drop proportional to increase in temp
after towing for over an hour it seems the temp of oil does not increase proportional with how the pressure drops
a few people in the past has mentioned possible shear thinning where the oil is just getting destroyed
a technician at for mentioned the possibility of blow by issues
at this point thanks to the advice im not so much worried as I am curious
all this observation was done on the motorcraft oil on a 60 to 70 degree day
I have not had a chance to run any testes with the mobil 1
you can see the pressure drop proportional to increase in temp
after towing for over an hour it seems the temp of oil does not increase proportional with how the pressure drops
a few people in the past has mentioned possible shear thinning where the oil is just getting destroyed
a technician at for mentioned the possibility of blow by issues
at this point thanks to the advice im not so much worried as I am curious
all this observation was done on the motorcraft oil on a 60 to 70 degree day
I have not had a chance to run any testes with the mobil 1
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: hatt
No I can't track oil temps. I'm sure I don't have to worry about them up getting up to temp however. It's 85 degrees today.
Shouldn't you get one of the radiator covers like the big rigs use when you're driving in arctic conditions?
I actually thought about it, LOL!! It has a HUGE rad, big clutch fan, rear heat, and holds 30-something litres of coolant. The wife's Charger (which I drive in the winter) has a much smaller rad, much less exposure on the front-end, and an electric fan. It comes up to temp MUCH faster. It also has an isolated engine bay with the plastic underbelly which I am sure helps too
No I can't track oil temps. I'm sure I don't have to worry about them up getting up to temp however. It's 85 degrees today.
Shouldn't you get one of the radiator covers like the big rigs use when you're driving in arctic conditions?
I actually thought about it, LOL!! It has a HUGE rad, big clutch fan, rear heat, and holds 30-something litres of coolant. The wife's Charger (which I drive in the winter) has a much smaller rad, much less exposure on the front-end, and an electric fan. It comes up to temp MUCH faster. It also has an isolated engine bay with the plastic underbelly which I am sure helps too
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Originally Posted By: Soak_n_Fused
a few people in the past has mentioned possible shear thinning where the oil is just getting destroyed.
Your 5.4L is not THAT hard on oil that it is shearing until the oil is destroyed. I have seen very little shearing and I have 21 UOAs to study with Pennzoil Ultra, Mobil Super 5000, and Mobil 1 AFE.
a few people in the past has mentioned possible shear thinning where the oil is just getting destroyed.
Your 5.4L is not THAT hard on oil that it is shearing until the oil is destroyed. I have seen very little shearing and I have 21 UOAs to study with Pennzoil Ultra, Mobil Super 5000, and Mobil 1 AFE.
No factory oil temp guage on mine, but through the magic of a Scanguage ii, and an oil temp sensor in the pan (used by the engine management of the VCT - at least on the earlier 3V 5.4's), walah, I have an oil temp guage on my '04 F150.
I have the same engine in my Lincoln Navigator. Heavier truck, and I haul 2.5 times more weight than you do, and almost twice the mileage. My truck had no oil cooler for the first 95k of its life.
While I am now using M1 0w40, let me tell you that I never had a problem show up on a UOA using 5w20. I ran 10-11k OCI's using my oil filter for 2 OCI's with conventional Mobil Super 5000, and saw wear below normal rates, no shearing at all, and no other issues.
Of course, you should do UOA's to see how your engine is actually living, but I and 2015_PSD can tell you conclusively that these engines when functioning correctly have absolutely positively no need for a thicker oil, and will show no additional benefits from a thicker oil.
My change to 40 was purely to silence my phasers that I'm not ready to replace yet.
If I had new phasers and only 78k miles, I wouldn't even waste a second of my life considering an oil other than 5w20.
The phasers need only 25psi of oil pressure to function correctly. If you're making more than 30 at very hot idle, I'd follow Rihanna's advice and "shut up and drive".
While I am now using M1 0w40, let me tell you that I never had a problem show up on a UOA using 5w20. I ran 10-11k OCI's using my oil filter for 2 OCI's with conventional Mobil Super 5000, and saw wear below normal rates, no shearing at all, and no other issues.
Of course, you should do UOA's to see how your engine is actually living, but I and 2015_PSD can tell you conclusively that these engines when functioning correctly have absolutely positively no need for a thicker oil, and will show no additional benefits from a thicker oil.
My change to 40 was purely to silence my phasers that I'm not ready to replace yet.
If I had new phasers and only 78k miles, I wouldn't even waste a second of my life considering an oil other than 5w20.
The phasers need only 25psi of oil pressure to function correctly. If you're making more than 30 at very hot idle, I'd follow Rihanna's advice and "shut up and drive".
I would just like to add I hauled an extremely heavy load last night 15000 lbs! ( this is the first chance I have had with the mobil-1 5w20 ep) I noticed higher oil pressure at hot idle.
I will also add the before and after of decibels running at hot idle are noticeably different
this thing runs so quiet now especially on startup
how often should I change this oil they say 15000 miles
I was thinking about 6000 miles that would be about twice a year for me so spring and fall
also is my motorcraft filter good for this distance?
I will also add the before and after of decibels running at hot idle are noticeably different
this thing runs so quiet now especially on startup
how often should I change this oil they say 15000 miles
I was thinking about 6000 miles that would be about twice a year for me so spring and fall
also is my motorcraft filter good for this distance?
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