04 hyundai accent gl 1.6L DOCH 128,000 km problem

[seanhawn]

Back in March I had my timing belt and water pump replaced. Trusted a family friend to do the job and save me a ton of money. Some family friend....while doing the timing a 2 valves where bent. Both intake valve in the 3rd cylinder. The head was removed and the valves replaced. When I got the car back from the family friend, the car would smell of gas at idle and was getting a CEL for "Cam Position Sensor Malfunction". Was told by the friend to replace the sensor, So I did....no change. After doing research found that if the timing was off, it could cause this CEL code. So me and a buddy retimed the car. Told 8 hours in the rain to retime the car. Found that the family friend was retarded on the cam to cam timing chain; (the intake cam was retarded 3 teeth). Aslo found the the crank was advanced 1 tooth. We retimed everything and all lined up with the marks. Crank at 1, Cam at 12, intake cam sprocket at 9, and exhaust cam at 3. Turned the car over 5 times by hand, checked the marks, started it, let it run, check everything again. Everything lined up. Got rid of the CEL for cam position sensor, however, now the car would chug at idle and would now get CEL code 2188 (running rich at idle) and every now and then get misfire code for all cylinders, as well as, random misfire. The car ran great beofre the initial timing. When I got it back the car ran good at idle and had no power when driving. When I retimed it the car now runs like [censored] at idle and good driving.
What could be wrong? Everything lined up, right on when I timed it (checked it like 8 times). Things i have tired:
new plugs and wires
new coil pack
new MAP sensor
new idle speed actuator
new TPS
new PCV
checked for intake and vaccum leaks by spraying carb cleaner around
did compression test (all cylinders around 195 to 200; don't remember exact number)
did vaccum test (needle little low, but not study under low rpms, but normal and study when rpms ncreased)
new fuel filter
new head gasket and bolts
new valve cover gasket
Did live data test, result as follows:

car at idle, engine hot
fuel system: Closed loop
Throttle: 0 deg
Coolant: 204 F
STFT: -7.0 %
LTFT: -5.4 %
Manifold Pressure: 15.3 in. hg.
RPMS: 829
Load Valve: 5.0 %
Ing. Advanced: -2.5 deg
Intake Air: 140 F
Sensor 1 O2S Output: 0.710V
Sensor 1 STFT: 6.2 %
Sensor 2 O2S Output: 0.795V
Sensor 2 STFT: 99.0 %
Thanks for any and all advice.

 

[mechanicx]

The only thing that popped out to me is that your map pressure seems low. Most car have about 20 in hg vacuum at idle and should be steady. You said the the vacuum gauge read low and not steady. If we assume valve timing is correct and compression is good maybe there is an intake leak somewhere. Does it idle rough after a cold start and in open loop?

 

[cmf]

Wow I'm sorry to hear about that whole scenario.

99% STFT is odd, and most manufacturers currently use the downstream O2 sensor to calculate the fuel trim. Although I am not sure how much Hyundai has it set to affect it. It can range from minimal to being enough to throw a code/affect idle. 99% is as lean as the reading can get, which would tell the car that it needs to be richer. I wouldn't expect the problem to be from the actual sensor itself though, but rather from a leak in the exhaust system prior to the sensor.

 

[OVERKILL]

I wonder if you've got some more bent valves that he didn't notice.....

 

[toyota62]

Seen on few hyundai's purge solenoid stuck on/sticking intermittently.

 

[seanhawn]

It idles rough all the time. Less when the rpms are higher but u can still feel it miss. Open loop happens when the car is run for awhile, correct?

I do have a missing stud on the exhuast manifold, that the family friend (former friend) broke when he needed to get the head off. Right on the corner too. As far as I know it is not leaking. My co-worker said you would hear it and he listened and said it wasn't.

If i had bent valves there would be no compression, right? and the car would run as bad at speed as it does at idle. That shouldn't change. It was a thought before that maybe a valve maybe sticking but I dont get any valve noise, other than when the car is started cold and the oil pressure has to build up.

I am not getting any codes for the evap valve, however when I removed the vaccum tube from the valve, the car ran a little bit better. I did not plug the tube though. Should I give that a try? Is there a way of testing the evap valve?

Thanks for the thought. Any of ideas?

 

[cmf]

No, open loop is when the car is just started. It goes into closed loop when the O2 sensors are heated enough.

Btw http://hmaservice.com/ has free shop manuals for all Hyundai vehicles if you ever want a step by step of how to do something in the future.

 

[seanhawn]

Already used that site however has been that much help for this problem. Have used the site to get the diagrams for the timing I redid.

 

[The_Eric]

Originally Posted By: cmf
Wow I'm sorry to hear about that whole scenario.

99% STFT is odd, and most manufacturers currently use the downstream O2 sensor to calculate the fuel trim. Although I am not sure how much Hyundai has it set to affect it. It can range from minimal to being enough to throw a code/affect idle. 99% is as lean as the reading can get, which would tell the car that it needs to be richer. I wouldn't expect the problem to be from the actual sensor itself though, but rather from a leak in the exhaust system prior to the sensor.


The STFT @ 99% isn't odd. It's because it's for the (non existent) bank two. I believe my Hyundai does the same thing.


How long did it take for this code to come in? Also, what is the front o2 sensor doing? How rapidly is it switching rich/lean? And finally, you're confident/positive that the timing is now correct?

 

[seanhawn]

I am 99 percent sure the timing is dead on. The 1 percent is because. The intake cam sprocket dot didn't exactly line up like in the service manual. Off maybe a millimeter at most. Tired over and over and no way I could. Dont know how quickly the 02 is switching as I don't know how to check. The live feed only showed the info every 15 seconds or so. The code didn't come on till the day after we timed the car right. However the car was chugging the first day.

 

[seanhawn]

A co-worker suggested the same thing as toyota62 "purge solenoid stuck on/sticking intermittently." I removed the vaccum hose on the evap canister from the solenoid. I could hear a putting sound. Car still ran the same. I then removed the vaccum hose from the intake manifold side of the solenoid and the RPMS rose to 1000. Car ran better but not perfect. If I plugged the vaccum hose the car ran like [censored] again. Does this tell me anything?

 

[seanhawn]

Where is the best place to hook up a vaccum tester for the most accurate reading?

 

[The_Eric]

Originally Posted By: seanhawn
Dont know how quickly the 02 is switching as I don't know how to check. The live feed only showed the info every 15 seconds or so.


That's kind of a bummer. What kind of scanner are you using and do all the sensor values take that long to refresh?

Originally Posted By: seanhawn
I then removed the vaccum hose from the intake manifold side of the solenoid and the RPMS rose to 1000. Car ran better but not perfect. If I plugged the vaccum hose the car ran like [censored] again. Does this tell me anything?


More air (via induced vacuum leak) and the engine runs better? Sounds rich to me. The high sensor 1 O2 voltage shows this as well, but it's hard to say for sure as it's only a snap shot.

Originally Posted By: seanhawn
Where is the best place to hook up a vaccum tester for the most accurate reading?


Any port that you can find a good vacuum source. One is pretty much as good as another.



If your refresh rate is really that slow, you're going to have to get a faster scanner to accurately monitor the O2 sensors.

 

[seanhawn]

Went for my emissions test today and it failed. Of course, I know my CAT Is going. Starting to smeel rotten eggs at idle. So I took it to the dealer for real time data. No definitive answers. They said the coolant temp was fluctuating between minus 20 to 148. TPS was reading 100% all the time. O2 sensor fluctuation heavily. Other sensors fluctuated heavily. timing is dead on. Compression at 200 psi for all cylinders.
They suspect that it is the main relay or ecu or the coolant sensor. The only sensor I have not changed. Does this seem possible?

 

[The_Eric]

If they suspect the coolant sensor or tps, then being a dealer they should have the resources to test them. If they test out okay and the wiring is good, then I could see it being the main relay or ecm.

 

[seanhawn]

Found the problem. They said they replaced the coolant sensor, and the main relay. Did not fix the problem. They said it was the ECM. They swapped it with one from a car in their lot and it fixed the problem. Apparently the ECM was still under warranty, up to 130,000 km. By the time they told me this I was at 129,992 km. They order the ECM, and installed it. They said ECM they got was a lemon and had to reorder. It was on back order. They finally got it and the problem was fixed. Only to leave me with another mess.

• The ECM was installed vertically not horizontally like it should be. With only 1 make shift bracket and 1 nut, allowing the ECM to move. For now I have secure the top of the ECM with zip ties.
• The main wireharness was removed from the firewall up to the fusebox under the hood. Clips were broke and not replaced. As well as, the tape and cover was cut and left open.¸
• The spark plugs were replaced with badly worn ones. I have since replaced with brand new ones.
• The air box bolts that hold it in are missing. It is just sitting there.

Don't know what to do or where to go from here. Any suggestions? Havent had the time to go back to the dealership as my wife and I need the car. We both work different shifts.

What would casue the car to use excess gas. Driving habits are the same as before. The car is running better and now using more gas. Doesn't make sense. The car idles normally. Drives normally. Has more power some times then other times. The car is not running rich. No CEL, No codes. The car smells alittle rich when cars cold. Has no rich smell when warm. Exhaust smells like exhaust. Don't understand why the wires were removed, as there is nothing on my invoice about it. There in nothing on my invoice about the main relay being replaced, like they said, not that I was charged for it.

What could cause the excess gas use now?

What should I do about the ecm placement?

What should I do about the wires?

What would cause more power some drives and it struggle a little other times?

BTW the car passed emissions with flying colours. That is if the dealership used my car to pass it.

Thanks for any help

 

[seanhawn]

Could a partially clogged CAT be the problem. As I had mentioned before my CAT smelt like it was on it's way out. But after the ecm change the smell is no longer there.
Does this mean that the CAT is ok?
The car passed emission fine. Should it be replaced or the O2 sensor replaced?

Please read posts before this

 

[91344George]

@sean:

You need to go back to the dealer and speak with the service manager and inform him that the work that was done was improper and faulty....tell them they need to redo the ECM installation CORRECTLY, and also tell them they need to refund your money for the OLD worn out plugs they installed!

It's really too bad that you didn't confront the service manager just after the work was done (or not done actually)

Don't be ugly but insist that they remedy the issues they left your car with and refund the labor and parts for the plugs.

Actually it sounds like that ECM might not be correct for your model either, maybe that is the source for the mpg issues.

No wonder they get the name STealerships today.