01 F150 4X4, hard time dis-engaging

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Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
In hind-sight I am wondering if the difference is that I lack 2HI on the Expedition. It only has "Auto/4HI/4LO", which may explain the absence of the vacuum setup in this vehicle, and likely explains why you probably DO have it if you have a "2HI" selector option.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_Trac

Quote:
Auto mode...


This is how Control Trac worked for '97 and on. My Explorer had a version of Control Trac that was unique to '95-'96. It has 2Hi/4Auto/4Lo. It had the vacuum disconnect. It was Control Trac you could turn off, but your only choices are 4WD when the truck decides or full on mud hole mode.



Yes, I had a '97, but I remember test driving a '96 that had the 4-position switch. Our first Expedition, a '98, also had the 4-position switch, but our other two have only had the 3-position ones.
 
That picture overk1ll posted is exactly what we had on our 2003 Expedition. We had 2hi/Auto/4hi/4lo as options on ours. It was electrically operated. I would have expected it to be the same TC in the F-150 as I thought they shared pretty much the entire drivetrain.
 
You don't think I messed up the transfer case by "pushing" it with the front axles still engaged, do you?
 
I really don't think you hurt anything. There are a number of 4x4s that don't disengage the front axles. '00 and up Ranger 4x4s always have the front axles engaged. You lost some fuel economy, that's about it.

Check the transfer case fluid. If it looks good, I wouldn't worry about it anymore.

The best thing you can do for a 4WD system is use it regularly.
 
I know, and that's what I was trying to do and then discovered this. When I jacked up the front end and turned the front wheels, I was amazed just how easy the spun. I mean, it took no effort at all. After thinking about it over some adult beverages last night, it still engages on the spot. Just disengaging it is the problem. There are two solenoids, one for activating and one for disengaging. I'll check that certain solenoid, which is fairly common on Fords and maybe I'll get lucky. With the current state of affairs of money in my household at this particular time, I really can't throw too much money at it right now. If it's a bad IWE or a mystery vacuum hose leak, that problem may just have to remain until I can get some fundage. But, glad to hear that driving it the way it is won't hurt anything. I've learned when engaged, that whinning sound is symbolmatic and typical of the solenoids not fully engaging 4x4 and not locking in the gears fully. I'll just stay out of 4x4 unless I really need it. I'm all ears to any one else that has something on this subject and thanks to all!!!!!
 
Originally Posted By: Schmoe
You don't think I messed up the transfer case by "pushing" it with the front axles still engaged, do you?


No, it would be operating just like mine operates at that point, LOL
 
Is this really a vacuum leak problem or could the actual mechanical switch that engages the front axle bad?
 
Originally Posted By: Schmoe
Is this really a vacuum leak problem or could the actual mechanical switch that engages the front axle bad?


It could, as others indicated earlier, be the shift motor. Did you change the fluid yet?
 
No, I haven't. Boy, the internet is a wonderful thing or too much of a good thing. After reading alot, seems I have a fairly common problem. I think overkill is spot on...it's got to be the shift motor. That would explain that loud bang sound I heard when I went from 4x4 hi to low, that motor is taking it's sweet time shifting the gears in the case itself. Would also explain why it takes some time for it to shift our of 4x4hi to 2hi, it just kind of "works" it way out of the 4x4 mode. It will jump into 4x4hi as soon as I flip the switch, so the motor is working, just taking a little time to get out of 4x4. Pretty common if not used a lot, so changing the fluids could help. Some have had success it lightly taping the motor with a rubber mallet.....but something is going on with the actual motor and it's not vacuum related. However, my IWE are staying engaged full time, that's a vacuum problem or both IWE's are shot. Truck has only 65K on it, but I guess it could happen. I can live with that and probably have for some time and didn't know it, explains the 13 mpg I get, but it's never got great mileage anyway. I know it engages as I can hear it and when I'm on the road, it's hard to turn it when in 4x4 mode, which is normal as with this type of setup, the tires must be able to spin freely but can't on solid surface. Don't have time nor the cash now to swap out the shift motor, but can live with it until spring arrives.
 
Or its the sensor that tells the solenoids to engage or disengage the components of the 4wd system. Don't assume its the motors first - test the parts. In my case, the delayed disengagement was from a bad sensor that cost $25 bucks. Problem solved.

I hate when when people just assume and don't troubleshoot the parts that tell other motors and solenoids what to do...

I had a friend who went down this road with a 4Runner. The truck would not disengge from 4WD. Dealership: Need to rebuild transfer case (internal shift motor) for $2000. Me: Check the sensors. Found the bad one, repaired for less than $150 in parts.
 
Good point. I think the sensor is inside the transfer motor....I think. I'll have to look that up.
 
i REALLY wonder if we are over-thinking this...

the driveline CAN'T disengage if there is any tension on it between F and R wheels.

That's why the BANG. there was tension. you've gone back to 4x2 and the solenoids have the vacuum actuaters (or spring, or motors) pulling, but they can't do their job because they can't pull the gears out of mesh until most of the tension is out.... the BANG is that they finally did their job.

Even the 4x4 levers are often spring loaded (some jeeps, nissan), so the lever might go back to 2-hi but the driveline is still in x4 until the mechanism can release.

Let me guess.... truck was on pavement, dry or wet. Not dirt, mud, or snow. if so, normal. not a problem. just not the correct environment to even test 4wd.

Yes, some T-cases required a reverse to disengage, but in this case reverse and N can help "unwind" driveline tension-- so the buddy's advice has merit. This can especially be the case if tires are unevenly worn, or you turned while in 4x4. sometimes R with a touch of steering can get it to relax too.

M
 
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BTW-- did you say you were rolling in 4wd often... and hear gears and whining noises... are you off-pavement or just driving around town? if you are rolling around town in 4x4, you are absolutely tearing up the driveline and actually compromising your safety during any sort of turn/curve. ?? not sure I completely understand what you are doing?

M
 
I was moving, which you can when going from 2 to 4hi. It was straight line. I've done it every once in a while just to give them a test to see if all the systems are working. Just when I went back to from 4hi to 2, it didn't release and realized that when I was turning a corner. Could feel the pull on the front end. That's never happened before, it usually went back to 2 with no problems. It also made a different sound than normal, that's why I started looking into what the problem was. I'm sure that load bang I heard was the transfer case switching to low 4, finally. This sure points to a stiff transfer shift motor. If the hubs aren't disengaging and I'm trying to get out of 4x4, I can see how this would be a problem with the transfer motor, too much tension and stopping, or going to reverse, relaxes the tension and allow for the transfer motor to do its job. I always drive in 2hi, it's just that the hubs are locked so I'm turning the axle shafts, which won't hurt anything just suck power and gas. If it's not a solenoid, then it's the IWE, which will have to be replaced and the seal is a Ford only part I learned yesterday which means this can get expensive fast. So, I'm in no hurry to fix it, it's technically not broke, just not working as optimal designed.
 
Does any one know if this particular generation always have live front shafts? I'm getting confused, some say yes, and some say no. Supposedly, the axle is locked in at the transfer case, not at the hubs.
 
if you have vacuum lines at the hubs its engaged at both the hubs and the t-case(4hi etc)

if you dont have vacuum lines and the front axle always turns then its live axle setup.

also for 4x4low you need to be stopped in neutral with foot on brake and it can take upto 30sec to go into 4low.
 
Originally Posted By: Rand
if you have vacuum lines at the hubs its engaged at both the hubs and the t-case(4hi etc)

if you dont have vacuum lines and the front axle always turns then its live axle setup.

also for 4x4low you need to be stopped in neutral with foot on brake and it can take upto 30sec to go into 4low.



This. Check for vacuum lines. As I indicated earlier, my Expedition does NOT have them. The hubs are ALWAYS "engaged" (they cannot disengage). In and out of 4x4 is done solely though the transfer case.
 
Originally Posted By: Schmoe
I was moving, which you can when going from 2 to 4hi. It was straight line. I've done it every once in a while just to give them a test to see if all the systems are working. Just when I went back to from 4hi to 2, it didn't release and realized that when I was turning a corner. Could feel the pull on the front end. That's never happened before, it usually went back to 2 with no problems. It also made a different sound than normal, that's why I started looking into what the problem was. I'm sure that load bang I heard was the transfer case switching to low 4, finally. This sure points to a stiff transfer shift motor. If the hubs aren't disengaging and I'm trying to get out of 4x4, I can see how this would be a problem with the transfer motor, too much tension and stopping, or going to reverse, relaxes the tension and allow for the transfer motor to do its job. I always drive in 2hi, it's just that the hubs are locked so I'm turning the axle shafts, which won't hurt anything just suck power and gas. If it's not a solenoid, then it's the IWE, which will have to be replaced and the seal is a Ford only part I learned yesterday which means this can get expensive fast. So, I'm in no hurry to fix it, it's technically not broke, just not working as optimal designed.


if tires are not worn evenly F-R then even cruising in a straight line does not release the tension. I'd bet money the was just the front disengaging. if it did a lo-hi change while moving, there would have been a gawdawful clashing of gears, and if it did engage, one heck of a lurch to the whole vehicle. besides, if you are in 4-lo, there's absolutely no mistaking that you're in 4-lo. whole thing drives wwaaay different...

suggest retest off-road. there are systems out there that are perfectly fine that struggle to disco the front when on pavement. one never gets a feel for it with these new electronically or spring or vacuum actuated systems. tugging on a handle gives you a better idea.

front vacuum disconnects would be under the same tensions too. the clutch is still a toothed mechanism, pushed into place by vacuum, spring, whatever. the warn manual hubs I used to have were indeed manual, but also spring loaded IIRC, so even though I twisted, they could still be engaged.

adding manuals hubs to my live axle nissan 4x4 (1997) saved me a cool 1 mpg, which paid for itself in well under a year! so if you have vacuum hubs, those are worth maintaining.

FWIW, the front hubs disco for fuel economy. the t-case is where the main engagement & disengagement happens.

good luck!

M
 
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Spot on overkill, no vacuum locking hubs, a live axle that engages inside the transfer case. Both disengage and engage are handled by two solenoids located behind the battery. One is a pink hose and the other is a blue hose. The pink one is the disengagement. When it warms up, I'll take my volt meter and check for power, then check for suction. This is a common failure item on Fords. Does anyone know if that solenoid is a Ford only part? The part number from Ford is 6L3Z-9H465-A.
 
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