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#586657 - 02/16/04 07:39 AM Detroit Diesel Series 60 DDEC4 [email protected] - 8
Doug Hillary Offline


Registered: 05/30/03
Posts: 5102
Loc: Airlie Beach Australia
This vehicle is an IVECO PowerStar 7500 500hp prime mover. It is used on long distance Interstate refrigerated transport

Delvac 1 5w-40
Kms on oil - 110,227
Kms on filters - 110,227
Time on oil - 6 months
Total kms on engine - 949,650

Sample date - 2/2/04
A report from another Lab taken 5 weeks and about 30kkms earlier is shown thus -?-

Aluminum - 3 -2-
Chromium - 6 -5-
Iron - 150 -129-
Copper - 10 -9-
Lead - 150 -123-
Silver - 0 -NA-
Silicon - 12 -11-
Sodium - 6 -9-

[email protected] - 151 -125-
PQ Index - 9 -25-
Nitration - 76 Abs/cm -43-
Water ppm - 905 -<0.0%-
Soot index - 3.6 -466-
TBN - 3.6 to D4739 -5.7-

Please advise how you view this oil which was changed at this point
Note the change in measurement of Water and Soot

Regards

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#586658 - 02/16/04 07:56 AM Re: Detroit Diesel Series 60 DDEC4 [email protected] - 8
Chris142 Offline


Registered: 06/05/03
Posts: 14766
Loc: apple valley, ca
Looks like a lot of iron and lead (in my opinion).

The last company I ran for had 80 trucks with DD60's 430-500 hp. Had lots of camshafts go flat, I'm wondering if thats where your iron and lead are coming from.

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#586659 - 02/20/04 04:14 AM Re: Detroit Diesel Series 60 DDEC4 [email protected] - 8
GregH Offline


Registered: 05/08/03
Posts: 211
Loc: Rome, Ga
Doug, I think the mileage, useage, and high numbers on the samples are beyond most folks experience, otherwise I think you would have recieved more replies. As far as I am concerned you are in uncharted waters.
GregH

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#586660 - 02/20/04 05:01 AM Re: Detroit Diesel Series 60 DDEC4 [email protected] - 8
Doug Hillary Offline


Registered: 05/30/03
Posts: 5102
Loc: Airlie Beach Australia
Hi,
Greg and Chris,
yes for many people the numbers are probably a little daunting
I will wait a bit longer and then post any developments here. This engine will be re-sampled in the next 14 days

Chris - we did have had a cam lobe issue on some DD engines here in Australia. I had one engine that had this problem and two cams were provided under warranty. The problem appeared to be a lack of hardening and appeared before 150k. It occurred suddenly being picked up by a miss at idle and was not detected via UOAs.

They were manufacturing quality problems.

Some fleets who used sub-standard oils that were incorrect for the engine have encountered high temp deposits and accellerated cam wear, but the latter is really very rare

Thanks for your interest

Doug

[ February 20, 2004, 09:08 PM: Message edited by: Doug Hillary ]

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#586661 - 03/05/04 04:35 AM Re: Detroit Diesel Series 60 DDEC4 [email protected] - 8
TooSlick Offline


Registered: 08/02/02
Posts: 5785
Loc: Dixie
This sample really degraded rapidly in the last 18,000km. You might want to use a nitration level of 40 Abs/cm as one of your max condemnation limits. This sample also showed significant thickening @ 40C, even on the first sample. That generally means Oxidation and soot levels are getting critical. I must say, the data from these two labs correlates extremely well. So at least, the sampling technique is excellent. [Smile]

Given the elevated lead wear, I'd almost suspect a slow coolant leak in this motor?

Was the same oil filter used for the entire run?

Ted

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#586662 - 03/06/04 07:20 AM Re: Detroit Diesel Series 60 DDEC4 [email protected] - 8
Doug Hillary Offline


Registered: 05/30/03
Posts: 5102
Loc: Airlie Beach Australia
Hi,
Ted - thanks for your reply please note the following;

Laboratory - Yes, the two Labs are Castrol's and ExxonMobil's and both are excellent

Nitration - Detroit Diesel's(DD's) limit is 50abs/cm - when using Delvac 1 we extend this to 60

Oil viscosity - yes the oil did thicken beyond our upper parameter of 134. The centrifuge device was inoperative in this unit due to a maintenance oversight so please refer to the next thread on this under a suffix "8"

Filters - The Donaldson Extended Life Filters ( ELF3998) are not changed during an OCI they are virtually redundant due to our use of MANN-HUMMEL centrifuge by-pass filters

Soot level - the soot level is nearing our upper limit of 3.9

The oil was changed due to the period being above our limit of 100kkms

The following points are noted;
1 - upper viscosity limit exceeded
2 - upper iron limit reached
3 - lead is unusually high

This engine is now on 20kkms "monitoring" intervals as we suspect that 1 and 3 above are only due to the inoperative centrifuge

Refer to the next thread on this engine under the suffix "8"

Regards
Doug [Cheers!]

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#586663 - 04/05/04 08:40 AM Re: Detroit Diesel Series 60 DDEC4 [email protected] - 8
Chris142 Offline


Registered: 06/05/03
Posts: 14766
Loc: apple valley, ca
quote:
Originally posted by Doug Hillary:



Chris - we did have had a cam lobe issue on some DD engines here in Australia. I had one engine that had this problem and two cams were provided under warranty. The problem appeared to be a lack of hardening and appeared before 150k. It occurred suddenly being picked up by a miss at idle and was not detected via UOAs.

They were manufacturing quality problems.

Some fleets who used sub-standard oils that were incorrect for the engine have encountered high temp deposits and accellerated cam wear, but the latter is really very rare


Doug

I had the same symptoms. I guess once the boost pressure comes up the air will go into the cylinder even when the valves are not opening enough. [Big Grin]

Ours all had problems around 400,000 miles. Even with 15,000 mile oil changes and Delo 15w/40.

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#586664 - 04/05/04 10:17 AM Re: Detroit Diesel Series 60 DDEC4 [email protected] - 8
Doug Hillary Offline


Registered: 05/30/03
Posts: 5102
Loc: Airlie Beach Australia
Hi Chris,

Were your engines a similar spec to these?

We fitted wastegate turbos after about 500kkms to minimise top end deterioration

Regards
Doug

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#586665 - 04/06/04 06:23 AM Re: Detroit Diesel Series 60 DDEC4 [email protected] - 8
Chris142 Offline


Registered: 06/05/03
Posts: 14766
Loc: apple valley, ca
quote:
Originally posted by Doug Hillary:
Hi Chris,

Were your engines a similar spec to these?


I think so. I was just a driver. They were 12.7 Series 60's, 470 hp cut back to 430.

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#586666 - 04/06/04 10:03 PM Re: Detroit Diesel Series 60 DDEC4 [email protected] - 8
Doug Hillary Offline


Registered: 05/30/03
Posts: 5102
Loc: Airlie Beach Australia
Hi Chris,

never "just a Driver" - that role is an important one

If the engines were post '97 they would likely be DDEC4. The differences were amazing with the DDEC2 being the "best" as they were not "restrained" by the ever tightening emmision controls
Strange that - the DDEC2's were the best for fuel economy too. So much for emmision controls - less power and smoke but you burn more fuel!

Regards

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#586667 - 04/08/04 07:56 AM Re: Detroit Diesel Series 60 DDEC4 [email protected] - 8
Chris142 Offline


Registered: 06/05/03
Posts: 14766
Loc: apple valley, ca
The trucks were 1998's and 1999's.
[Off Topic!] Speaking of fuel milage. Isn't it odd how 10 trucks that are identical in every way can get such drastic fuel usage.

I drove truck #132. I managed 6.29 mpg.

Truck #144 got 6.02 mpg.
Truck #143 got 5.8 mpg.

I later got a brand new 02'Pete and was getting 5.85 mpg from the get go. This was a 430/500, Really ran strong!

All the trucks had the same transmissions, axle ratios etc.

If I could I'd drive for you! You sound like a guy that appreciates good help. Here in the usa drivers work for free. I quit almost 2 years ago but still have my license and hope to buy my own truck sometime soon.

[ April 08, 2004, 10:58 PM: Message edited by: Chris142 ]

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#586668 - 04/08/04 08:07 AM Re: Detroit Diesel Series 60 DDEC4 [email protected] - 8
Doug Hillary Offline


Registered: 05/30/03
Posts: 5102
Loc: Airlie Beach Australia
Hi Chris,

I'd offer you a job if you were here!

An Interstate Driver here earns between $A50k and $A70k per year

Well, they were the late series engines you drove and your fuel economy range is about the same as with mine

People here seem to believe that a particular engine oil brand/type shows up in fuel economy. We have always had difficulty with that as the wind,load type etc etc and the Driver's attitude have a HUGH influence - well beyond that of a certain engine oil!

Kind Regards
Doug [Cheers!]

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#586669 - 04/18/04 03:43 PM Re: Detroit Diesel Series 60 DDEC4 [email protected] - 8
Shannow Offline


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 35003
Loc: Oz
quote:
Originally posted by Doug Hillary:

Strange that - the DDEC2's were the best for fuel economy too. So much for emmision controls - less power and smoke but you burn more fuel!

Doug,
that was the strange part about ADR 27A when it hit Oz (the EGR, hot air induction and stuff).

All my pre ADR 27 cars got pretty good mileage and power, while the post ADR 27 were down on power and mileage, but got ridiculously low economy to boot.

I had a pretty good argument with some registration type people that although my ppm exhaust emissions were illegal, my grammes per mile were so much better after playing with my U.C. Torana. They let me keep it on the road.

quote:
Originally posted by Doug Hillary:
An Interstate Driver here earns between $A50k and $A70k per year

I'm in the wrong job [Frown]

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#4327093 - 02/11/17 09:21 PM Re: Detroit Diesel Series 60 DDEC4 [email protected] - 8 [Re: Doug Hillary]
NStuart Offline


Registered: 12/28/16
Posts: 62
Loc: Sav ga
I know this is a really really old post, but I'd love to hear more about this simply bc these numbers are dangerous a 60 series per detroit..... Op are you still around?
_________________________
Detroit 14l 1,035,000 mi and counting
96 ram 5.9 gas 80k built tranny
85 cj7 4.2 performance build
08 cbr600rr graffiti

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#4331621 - 02/17/17 12:53 AM Re: Detroit Diesel Series 60 DDEC4 [email protected] - 8 [Re: NStuart]
Doug Hillary Offline


Registered: 05/30/03
Posts: 5102
Loc: Airlie Beach Australia
NStuart,

Yes
_________________________
Regards
Doug

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