GM recommendation: 15w50 for track driving
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Originally Posted By: dparm
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Originally Posted By: dparm
Originally Posted By: Mitch Alsup
And you are worried about another $100 in oil !?!
It's way more than $100. The sump is gigantic and you have to replace it with 5w30 once you are done on the track, so you are effectively paying for two full oil changes. Also, there is the simple logistical problem of going to the dealer twice.
I agree that it's "cheap insurance".
Would getting a drill powered extractor, a 20l pail, and then save it work with a dry sump? Should be pretty fast and painless if it works.
Not sure. It's a dry sump system. The owner's manual has a very rudimentary overview of how to do it:
1. Remove the two drain plugs. One is for the external oil tank (via oil transfer supply line) and the other is for the crankcase sump.
2. Remove the filter
3. Reinstall drain plugs
4. Replace filter.
5. Add oil.
6. Run the engine for 15 seconds, turn it off, and check the level.
Also, that's a gray area with the warranty: GM could say "how do we know you did that every time"?
Maybe just find out who the vette warranty manager is for your area and ask them first. I guess if nothing else you'll get a sense if he's an enthusiast or not.
Seems a little stupid that they go to the trouble of a dry sump for tracking the car, and then spec an oil that you have change out to run on the track... They should pay some GM engineer some overtime to figure out if 15w50 wrecks the cats or not and be done with it.
I suspect your not going to burn enough oil or do enough road miles to wreck the cats in any case, as they must get lots of heat and rich fuel mixture going through them on a track day. Being of low moral character, I'd just get the 5w30 changes at the dealer on time and then change it to whatever you want to run at the track until you get your next free oil change, no need to mention anything about tracking it all...
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Originally Posted By: dparm
Originally Posted By: Mitch Alsup
And you are worried about another $100 in oil !?!
It's way more than $100. The sump is gigantic and you have to replace it with 5w30 once you are done on the track, so you are effectively paying for two full oil changes. Also, there is the simple logistical problem of going to the dealer twice.
I agree that it's "cheap insurance".
Would getting a drill powered extractor, a 20l pail, and then save it work with a dry sump? Should be pretty fast and painless if it works.
Not sure. It's a dry sump system. The owner's manual has a very rudimentary overview of how to do it:
1. Remove the two drain plugs. One is for the external oil tank (via oil transfer supply line) and the other is for the crankcase sump.
2. Remove the filter
3. Reinstall drain plugs
4. Replace filter.
5. Add oil.
6. Run the engine for 15 seconds, turn it off, and check the level.
Also, that's a gray area with the warranty: GM could say "how do we know you did that every time"?
Maybe just find out who the vette warranty manager is for your area and ask them first. I guess if nothing else you'll get a sense if he's an enthusiast or not.
Seems a little stupid that they go to the trouble of a dry sump for tracking the car, and then spec an oil that you have change out to run on the track... They should pay some GM engineer some overtime to figure out if 15w50 wrecks the cats or not and be done with it.
I suspect your not going to burn enough oil or do enough road miles to wreck the cats in any case, as they must get lots of heat and rich fuel mixture going through them on a track day. Being of low moral character, I'd just get the 5w30 changes at the dealer on time and then change it to whatever you want to run at the track until you get your next free oil change, no need to mention anything about tracking it all...
When you head to the track, drain the oil tank, refill with 15W-50. When you get home, drain the tank and add 5W-30. Don't worry about the pan. Most of the oil resides in the tank for a dry sump system anyways. Should cut down on time and oil required. You'll end with a bit of a mix, but that won't hurt anything and makes for a simpler, cheaper process. Depending on where you are in your oil change interval, you could skip the filter replacement.
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You guys are CLEARLY not thinking "outside of the box" with this....
"Change" the oil does NOT necessarily mean "drain and discard it".
If you can't figure out a way to recover your drained oil and refill the tank with it again, you obviously aren't hanging out with mechanically oriented guys. There are way more than 1 way to skin this cat.
"Change" the oil does NOT necessarily mean "drain and discard it".
If you can't figure out a way to recover your drained oil and refill the tank with it again, you obviously aren't hanging out with mechanically oriented guys. There are way more than 1 way to skin this cat.
After a few drain and fill swaps, you soon would have a 50/50 mix of the two oils.
I guess the statement that 5w30 is can handle what almost all of the racers can throw at it is not good enough for BITOG standards? If it can hold pressure to adequate levels and doesn't exceed temperature limits, wouldn't it just be easier to use it and shorten the OCIs that include track time?
Another option is to run the race oil all the time and know that the cat might only make it through 7 lives and be one of those costs of racing down the road just like brakes, brake fluid, etc...
Another option is to run the race oil all the time and know that the cat might only make it through 7 lives and be one of those costs of racing down the road just like brakes, brake fluid, etc...
My pet peeve is the Corvette engine is 5W30 and the 420 HP 6.2L in the 1500s is magically a 0w20 engine, with no towing up hill on hot days option.
The 1500 6.2L with dealer Borla exhaust and fresh air intake makes 435 HP, just like the 69 427.
The 1500 6.2L with dealer Borla exhaust and fresh air intake makes 435 HP, just like the 69 427.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: userfriendly
The 1500 6.2L with dealer Borla exhaust and fresh air intake makes 435 HP, just like the 69 427.
That's NET vs GROSS however, which can be a huge difference.
The 1500 6.2L with dealer Borla exhaust and fresh air intake makes 435 HP, just like the 69 427.
That's NET vs GROSS however, which can be a huge difference.
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: userfriendly
The 1500 6.2L with dealer Borla exhaust and fresh air intake makes 435 HP, just like the 69 427.
That's NET vs GROSS however, which can be a huge difference.
A Gross difference to be sure! Likely that 6.2 is more powerful AND more flexible with the moving cam...
Originally Posted By: userfriendly
The 1500 6.2L with dealer Borla exhaust and fresh air intake makes 435 HP, just like the 69 427.
That's NET vs GROSS however, which can be a huge difference.
A Gross difference to be sure! Likely that 6.2 is more powerful AND more flexible with the moving cam...
Originally Posted By: dparm
Originally Posted By: Mitch Alsup
And you are worried about another $100 in oil !?!
It's way more than $100. The sump is gigantic and you have to replace it with 5w30 once you are done on the track, so you are effectively paying for two full oil changes. Also, there is the simple logistical problem of going to the dealer twice.
I agree that it's "cheap insurance".
Drain 10W-30 oil into a big plastic bucket.
Fill with 15W-50 oil
track day
drain 15W-50 oil into a different big plastic bucket
fill with the 10W-30 oil from the first bucket.
No trips to the dealer,
no extra oil change.
Originally Posted By: Mitch Alsup
And you are worried about another $100 in oil !?!
It's way more than $100. The sump is gigantic and you have to replace it with 5w30 once you are done on the track, so you are effectively paying for two full oil changes. Also, there is the simple logistical problem of going to the dealer twice.
I agree that it's "cheap insurance".
Drain 10W-30 oil into a big plastic bucket.
Fill with 15W-50 oil
track day
drain 15W-50 oil into a different big plastic bucket
fill with the 10W-30 oil from the first bucket.
No trips to the dealer,
no extra oil change.
^^^You know it's really funny. That's exactly what we used to do with my old Vettes for track day.
9 quart sump on my 99. Drain it, pull the filter. Put filter directly in the extra clean 5 gallon pail with the oil. It actually was very effective, just a bit awkward to get the oil back into the engine. Filter was a bit slippery, too...
9 quart sump on my 99. Drain it, pull the filter. Put filter directly in the extra clean 5 gallon pail with the oil. It actually was very effective, just a bit awkward to get the oil back into the engine. Filter was a bit slippery, too...
Umm, why are people mentioning 10w30 (an arguably extinct viscosity) for a car under warranty that specifies 5w30?
Run the 15w50 from the beginning of track season to the end of track season. April through November. What the heck; your Vette probably isn't a daily driver anyway.
Run 5w30 dexos the rest of the year. December through March.
Run 5w30 dexos the rest of the year. December through March.
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Originally Posted By: dparm
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Sounds good, but what does the actual written warranty from Chevy say about either oil used or track use?
Track use is generally disqualifying for any engine warranty from any maker of any car.
Believe what you see in writing from the manufacturer and their lawyers, not what some gonzo development guys post someplace.
Their claim that M1 0W-40 was unavailable when they "validated these engines", whatever that's supposed to mean should be your first clue that these guys don't have one.
Tadge Juechter is the chief engineer of the Corvette platform.
http://www.automobilemag.com/news/2014-man-of-the-year-tadge-juechter/
It's very possible that M1 0w40 was undergoing a formulation change right as they were testing.
I would guess the same about GM's non-recommendation of M1 0w40.
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Sounds good, but what does the actual written warranty from Chevy say about either oil used or track use?
Track use is generally disqualifying for any engine warranty from any maker of any car.
Believe what you see in writing from the manufacturer and their lawyers, not what some gonzo development guys post someplace.
Their claim that M1 0W-40 was unavailable when they "validated these engines", whatever that's supposed to mean should be your first clue that these guys don't have one.
Tadge Juechter is the chief engineer of the Corvette platform.
http://www.automobilemag.com/news/2014-man-of-the-year-tadge-juechter/
It's very possible that M1 0w40 was undergoing a formulation change right as they were testing.
I would guess the same about GM's non-recommendation of M1 0w40.
Originally Posted By: userfriendly
My pet peeve is the Corvette engine is 5W30 and the 420 HP 6.2L in the 1500s is magically a 0w20 engine, with no towing up hill on hot days option.
The big difference is the Corvette engine is in a car that can pull 1+ G's lateral, and the engine is subject to oil pressure loss in long, hard turns. A truck pulling a trailer uphill won't have that problem. While some uphill pulls on interstates can last 5-7 minutes, the engine is not being run at 5000+ rpm at WOT to do those pulls. I would be surprised if 95% of the owners would be brave enough to exceed 4000 rpm and 80% throttle for even a minute.
On the other hand, there's my LS1 Camaro, which I beat like a rented mule at track days for 14 years on 5w30 oils. It finally started to use oil too excessively for track use at 250k miles. It got to the point last year where it would use more than quart of oil in a 30 minute lapping session. Time to put it out to pasture. It's still OK for street driving, though.
I think that GM is making the 50-weight recommendation to provide protection with a thicker oil film in those 2-3 second periods of marginal pressure supply while in a turn. And the extra zddp content will provide a better tribofilm, provided that sufficient time at temperature has been allowed for it to form.
My pet peeve is the Corvette engine is 5W30 and the 420 HP 6.2L in the 1500s is magically a 0w20 engine, with no towing up hill on hot days option.
The big difference is the Corvette engine is in a car that can pull 1+ G's lateral, and the engine is subject to oil pressure loss in long, hard turns. A truck pulling a trailer uphill won't have that problem. While some uphill pulls on interstates can last 5-7 minutes, the engine is not being run at 5000+ rpm at WOT to do those pulls. I would be surprised if 95% of the owners would be brave enough to exceed 4000 rpm and 80% throttle for even a minute.
On the other hand, there's my LS1 Camaro, which I beat like a rented mule at track days for 14 years on 5w30 oils. It finally started to use oil too excessively for track use at 250k miles. It got to the point last year where it would use more than quart of oil in a 30 minute lapping session. Time to put it out to pasture. It's still OK for street driving, though.
I think that GM is making the 50-weight recommendation to provide protection with a thicker oil film in those 2-3 second periods of marginal pressure supply while in a turn. And the extra zddp content will provide a better tribofilm, provided that sufficient time at temperature has been allowed for it to form.
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True, a little added protection that costs nothing is a good thing when fuel economy or a few horsepower is not a factor.
Not much different than towing up a mountain pass on a hot day.
Why then is the 6.2L in 1500s, Yukon Denali and Escalade 0W20 engines instead of 5W30 as in the Camaro 'n Corvettes?
The 4.3L V6 with the same AFM system is a 5W30 engine.
The oldest 5.3 & 6.2L 0W20 engines (2014+ )are only 3 1/2 years old with an average of around 30K miles on them.
Only time will tell if 0W20 was the right engine oil recommendation for these engines over the long haul.
Not much different than towing up a mountain pass on a hot day.
Why then is the 6.2L in 1500s, Yukon Denali and Escalade 0W20 engines instead of 5W30 as in the Camaro 'n Corvettes?
The 4.3L V6 with the same AFM system is a 5W30 engine.
The oldest 5.3 & 6.2L 0W20 engines (2014+ )are only 3 1/2 years old with an average of around 30K miles on them.
Only time will tell if 0W20 was the right engine oil recommendation for these engines over the long haul.
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Originally Posted By: userfriendly
My pet peeve is the Corvette engine is 5W30 and the 420 HP 6.2L in the 1500s is magically a 0w20 engine, with no towing up hill on hot days option.
The big difference is the Corvette engine is in a car that can pull 1+ G's lateral, and the engine is subject to oil pressure loss in long, hard turns. A truck pulling a trailer uphill won't have that problem. While some uphill pulls on interstates can last 5-7 minutes, the engine is not being run at 5000+ rpm at WOT to do those pulls. I would be surprised if 95% of the owners would be brave enough to exceed 4000 rpm and 80% throttle for even a minute.
On the other hand, there's my LS1 Camaro, which I beat like a rented mule at track days for 14 years on 5w30 oils. It finally started to use oil too excessively for track use at 250k miles. It got to the point last year where it would use more than quart of oil in a 30 minute lapping session. Time to put it out to pasture. It's still OK for street driving, though.
I think that GM is making the 50-weight recommendation to provide protection with a thicker oil film in those 2-3 second periods of marginal pressure supply while in a turn. And the extra zddp content will provide a better tribofilm, provided that sufficient time at temperature has been allowed for it to form.
Yes, though my car has the dry sump system.
Originally Posted By: userfriendly
My pet peeve is the Corvette engine is 5W30 and the 420 HP 6.2L in the 1500s is magically a 0w20 engine, with no towing up hill on hot days option.
The big difference is the Corvette engine is in a car that can pull 1+ G's lateral, and the engine is subject to oil pressure loss in long, hard turns. A truck pulling a trailer uphill won't have that problem. While some uphill pulls on interstates can last 5-7 minutes, the engine is not being run at 5000+ rpm at WOT to do those pulls. I would be surprised if 95% of the owners would be brave enough to exceed 4000 rpm and 80% throttle for even a minute.
On the other hand, there's my LS1 Camaro, which I beat like a rented mule at track days for 14 years on 5w30 oils. It finally started to use oil too excessively for track use at 250k miles. It got to the point last year where it would use more than quart of oil in a 30 minute lapping session. Time to put it out to pasture. It's still OK for street driving, though.
I think that GM is making the 50-weight recommendation to provide protection with a thicker oil film in those 2-3 second periods of marginal pressure supply while in a turn. And the extra zddp content will provide a better tribofilm, provided that sufficient time at temperature has been allowed for it to form.
Yes, though my car has the dry sump system.
Originally Posted By: dparm
Yes, though my car has the dry sump system.
Haven't kept up but didn't the dry sump Vettes have issues in hard track use?
Yes, though my car has the dry sump system.
Haven't kept up but didn't the dry sump Vettes have issues in hard track use?
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: dparm
Yes, though my car has the dry sump system.
Haven't kept up but didn't the dry sump Vettes have issues in hard track use?
Not that I've heard of. The dry sump system is not standard on the Stingray -- you must select the Z51 Performance Package to get it.
Originally Posted By: dparm
Yes, though my car has the dry sump system.
Haven't kept up but didn't the dry sump Vettes have issues in hard track use?
Not that I've heard of. The dry sump system is not standard on the Stingray -- you must select the Z51 Performance Package to get it.
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