Originally Posted By: whip
It's a team sport. How do you punish the team without punishing the driver?
$$$$$$$$$
It's a team sport. How do you punish the team without punishing the driver?
$$$$$$$$$
F1 - 2016 British Grand Prix
- Thread starter gofast182
- Start date
- Status
Average out the penalties for engine and gearbox changes between the two drivers in the team. So instead of say, a 6-position gearbox penalty for only Nico, make it a 3-position penalty for both Lewis and Nico. At least that would make some of the reliability issues and penalties fair between the drivers and reduce their effect on the championship.
How about if they just do away with the stupid penalties for engine and gear box changes. While they are at it lets forget the " you must run two different tire types during the race". I don't care if the team wants to put a different compound tire on every corner of the car and run that way for the entire race. If they think it will make them faster I say go for it.
The engineers in the pits call the driver and say " we know a secret about your car but we ain't goin to tell you".
The driver is like , " well how many guesses do I get"?
While we are in a rule changing mood let get rid of the "power unit" and replace it with a 2.4 liter NA engine with as many cylinders as you want. The present power units gas, electric, rubber bands or a big fly wheel who really understands how they work.
I know enough about the new power units, they sound like _rap. The old F1 engine would make your hair stand up and give you chills.
Watching the past two years of F1 you forget what you had until you watch some old races and hear those engines.
The engineers in the pits call the driver and say " we know a secret about your car but we ain't goin to tell you".
The driver is like , " well how many guesses do I get"?
While we are in a rule changing mood let get rid of the "power unit" and replace it with a 2.4 liter NA engine with as many cylinders as you want. The present power units gas, electric, rubber bands or a big fly wheel who really understands how they work.
I know enough about the new power units, they sound like _rap. The old F1 engine would make your hair stand up and give you chills.
Watching the past two years of F1 you forget what you had until you watch some old races and hear those engines.
Just finished watching the race. I agree with David Hobbs that if they are going to have a penalty, take away Constructors points.
Originally Posted By: Reggaemon
How about if they just do away with the stupid penalties for engine and gear box changes. While they are at it lets forget the " you must run two different tire types during the race". I don't care if the team wants to put a different compound tire on every corner of the car and run that way for the entire race. If they think it will make them faster I say go for it.
The engineers in the pits call the driver and say " we know a secret about your car but we ain't goin to tell you".
The driver is like , " well how many guesses do I get"?
While we are in a rule changing mood let get rid of the "power unit" and replace it with a 2.4 liter NA engine with as many cylinders as you want. The present power units gas, electric, rubber bands or a big fly wheel who really understands how they work.
I know enough about the new power units, they sound like _rap. The old F1 engine would make your hair stand up and give you chills.
Watching the past two years of F1 you forget what you had until you watch some old races and hear those engines.
Bingo, we have a winner! Best post of the thread!
How about if they just do away with the stupid penalties for engine and gear box changes. While they are at it lets forget the " you must run two different tire types during the race". I don't care if the team wants to put a different compound tire on every corner of the car and run that way for the entire race. If they think it will make them faster I say go for it.
The engineers in the pits call the driver and say " we know a secret about your car but we ain't goin to tell you".
The driver is like , " well how many guesses do I get"?
While we are in a rule changing mood let get rid of the "power unit" and replace it with a 2.4 liter NA engine with as many cylinders as you want. The present power units gas, electric, rubber bands or a big fly wheel who really understands how they work.
I know enough about the new power units, they sound like _rap. The old F1 engine would make your hair stand up and give you chills.
Watching the past two years of F1 you forget what you had until you watch some old races and hear those engines.
Bingo, we have a winner! Best post of the thread!
Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: whip
It's a team sport. How do you punish the team without punishing the driver?
$$$$$$$$$
Merc spent half a billion dollars developing the current power units. Do you think a million dollar fine would stop them from getting both cars to the finish?
Originally Posted By: whip
It's a team sport. How do you punish the team without punishing the driver?
$$$$$$$$$
Merc spent half a billion dollars developing the current power units. Do you think a million dollar fine would stop them from getting both cars to the finish?
Originally Posted By: Reggaemon
How about if they just do away with the stupid penalties for engine and gear box changes. While they are at it lets forget the " you must run two different tire types during the race". I don't care if the team wants to put a different compound tire on every corner of the car and run that way for the entire race. If they think it will make them faster I say go for it.
The engineers in the pits call the driver and say " we know a secret about your car but we ain't goin to tell you".
The driver is like , " well how many guesses do I get"?
While we are in a rule changing mood let get rid of the "power unit" and replace it with a 2.4 liter NA engine with as many cylinders as you want. The present power units gas, electric, rubber bands or a big fly wheel who really understands how they work.
I know enough about the new power units, they sound like _rap. The old F1 engine would make your hair stand up and give you chills.
Watching the past two years of F1 you forget what you had until you watch some old races and hear those engines.
I agree that some of the rules are stupid, but this is what the teams agreed to. As far as the power units, why would you want them to go backwards and use outdated technology? The current lap times almost match the V8 era. They're going just as fast and doing it on half the fuel.
How about if they just do away with the stupid penalties for engine and gear box changes. While they are at it lets forget the " you must run two different tire types during the race". I don't care if the team wants to put a different compound tire on every corner of the car and run that way for the entire race. If they think it will make them faster I say go for it.
The engineers in the pits call the driver and say " we know a secret about your car but we ain't goin to tell you".
The driver is like , " well how many guesses do I get"?
While we are in a rule changing mood let get rid of the "power unit" and replace it with a 2.4 liter NA engine with as many cylinders as you want. The present power units gas, electric, rubber bands or a big fly wheel who really understands how they work.
I know enough about the new power units, they sound like _rap. The old F1 engine would make your hair stand up and give you chills.
Watching the past two years of F1 you forget what you had until you watch some old races and hear those engines.
I agree that some of the rules are stupid, but this is what the teams agreed to. As far as the power units, why would you want them to go backwards and use outdated technology? The current lap times almost match the V8 era. They're going just as fast and doing it on half the fuel.
Originally Posted By: whip
Originally Posted By: Reggaemon
How about if they just do away with the stupid penalties for engine and gear box changes. While they are at it lets forget the " you must run two different tire types during the race". I don't care if the team wants to put a different compound tire on every corner of the car and run that way for the entire race. If they think it will make them faster I say go for it.
The engineers in the pits call the driver and say " we know a secret about your car but we ain't goin to tell you".
The driver is like , " well how many guesses do I get"?
While we are in a rule changing mood let get rid of the "power unit" and replace it with a 2.4 liter NA engine with as many cylinders as you want. The present power units gas, electric, rubber bands or a big fly wheel who really understands how they work.
I know enough about the new power units, they sound like _rap. The old F1 engine would make your hair stand up and give you chills.
Watching the past two years of F1 you forget what you had until you watch some old races and hear those engines.
I agree that some of the rules are stupid, but this is what the teams agreed to. As far as the power units, why would you want them to go backwards and use outdated technology? The current lap times almost match the V8 era. They're going just as fast and doing it on half the fuel.
I agree that the current hybrid setup is much more likely to yield improvements that could be used on a street car, and for a manufacturer, that helps make the expense of developing an F1 engine more palatable. The sound of the old cars is amazing though... Its too bad they didn't stick with a NA gas motor with KERS, a 2L V8 would have to be revved to moon to make its power so we'd get the old sound but still have the hybrid system.
Originally Posted By: Reggaemon
How about if they just do away with the stupid penalties for engine and gear box changes. While they are at it lets forget the " you must run two different tire types during the race". I don't care if the team wants to put a different compound tire on every corner of the car and run that way for the entire race. If they think it will make them faster I say go for it.
The engineers in the pits call the driver and say " we know a secret about your car but we ain't goin to tell you".
The driver is like , " well how many guesses do I get"?
While we are in a rule changing mood let get rid of the "power unit" and replace it with a 2.4 liter NA engine with as many cylinders as you want. The present power units gas, electric, rubber bands or a big fly wheel who really understands how they work.
I know enough about the new power units, they sound like _rap. The old F1 engine would make your hair stand up and give you chills.
Watching the past two years of F1 you forget what you had until you watch some old races and hear those engines.
I agree that some of the rules are stupid, but this is what the teams agreed to. As far as the power units, why would you want them to go backwards and use outdated technology? The current lap times almost match the V8 era. They're going just as fast and doing it on half the fuel.
I agree that the current hybrid setup is much more likely to yield improvements that could be used on a street car, and for a manufacturer, that helps make the expense of developing an F1 engine more palatable. The sound of the old cars is amazing though... Its too bad they didn't stick with a NA gas motor with KERS, a 2L V8 would have to be revved to moon to make its power so we'd get the old sound but still have the hybrid system.
I can understand Hybrid technology, and fuel economy with street cars. But NOT with the most high performance racing cars on the planet. "New" technology with smaller engines does not improve lap times. Just look at the Schumacher era V-10 lap times, compared to today's turbo V-6's. Even with the V-10's running grooved tires, they're much quicker. Put the V-10's on the same tires they're using today, and it wouldn't even be a contest. Racing is about SPEED. Or it least it should be. Economy should be of concern when driving to work..... Not going down the straight at Monza at 225 MPH. When have you ever heard a race fan ask, "I wonder what his gas mileage is"?
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
Just finished watching the race. I agree with David Hobbs that if they are going to have a penalty, take away Constructors points.
Well, that might be helpful, but I think we have to look at the root cause here. The engineers were making the modes very complex, and clearly not very user friendly from the driver's standpoint. Of course, neither they nor the drivers cared, because an engineer would just rattle off some arcane commands to a driver, who would then execute them in hope of a certain result. Now, they can't do that.
Perhaps it's time for engineers to think how to make their menus and modes more friendly for the drivers and less inscrutable. Straighten out some of the spaghetti code and bizarre menus with various dead ends, and you'll avoid a lot of these problems. Everyone complains that the drivers cannot memorize every menu and mode out there. I'm sure that's absolutely correct. I highly doubt, however, that user friendliness has been refined much, if at all.
With respect to advanced engines versus something "older" or different, yes, the teams agreed to this. Mercedes, Ferrari, Honda, and Renault would have little to no interest in the sport if you went back in time twenty years with respect to engine rules and/or technology. Those teams have made it very clear that they want the hybrid package. McLaren and Williams as constructors have also invested far too much into the hybrid aspect of things to want to be going backwards, either. If you gave an option of a "normal" engine by an independent manufacturer without all the hybrid hoops, but with still some sort of performance equivalence, I really wonder how many teams would choose to run it or if it would drive any of the current engine manufacturers out of the sport altogether.
Just finished watching the race. I agree with David Hobbs that if they are going to have a penalty, take away Constructors points.
Well, that might be helpful, but I think we have to look at the root cause here. The engineers were making the modes very complex, and clearly not very user friendly from the driver's standpoint. Of course, neither they nor the drivers cared, because an engineer would just rattle off some arcane commands to a driver, who would then execute them in hope of a certain result. Now, they can't do that.
Perhaps it's time for engineers to think how to make their menus and modes more friendly for the drivers and less inscrutable. Straighten out some of the spaghetti code and bizarre menus with various dead ends, and you'll avoid a lot of these problems. Everyone complains that the drivers cannot memorize every menu and mode out there. I'm sure that's absolutely correct. I highly doubt, however, that user friendliness has been refined much, if at all.
With respect to advanced engines versus something "older" or different, yes, the teams agreed to this. Mercedes, Ferrari, Honda, and Renault would have little to no interest in the sport if you went back in time twenty years with respect to engine rules and/or technology. Those teams have made it very clear that they want the hybrid package. McLaren and Williams as constructors have also invested far too much into the hybrid aspect of things to want to be going backwards, either. If you gave an option of a "normal" engine by an independent manufacturer without all the hybrid hoops, but with still some sort of performance equivalence, I really wonder how many teams would choose to run it or if it would drive any of the current engine manufacturers out of the sport altogether.
Originally Posted By: billt460
I can understand Hybrid technology, and fuel economy with street cars. But NOT with the most high performance racing cars on the planet. "New" technology with smaller engines does not improve lap times. Just look at the Schumacher era V-10 lap times, compared to today's turbo V-6's. Even with the V-10's running grooved tires, they're much quicker. Put the V-10's on the same tires they're using today, and it wouldn't even be a contest. Racing is about SPEED. Or it least it should be. Economy should be of concern when driving to work..... Not going down the straight at Monza at 225 MPH. When have you ever heard a race fan ask, "I wonder what his gas mileage is"?
I'm not so sure about that. It's pretty obvious these cars are mostly traction limited. Sure, more power will allow more downforce, but then you get into tyre longevity. It's not as open and shut as "give 'me more power and they'll be faster". Next year should be fun. More downforce, more rubber... What's not to like.
I can understand Hybrid technology, and fuel economy with street cars. But NOT with the most high performance racing cars on the planet. "New" technology with smaller engines does not improve lap times. Just look at the Schumacher era V-10 lap times, compared to today's turbo V-6's. Even with the V-10's running grooved tires, they're much quicker. Put the V-10's on the same tires they're using today, and it wouldn't even be a contest. Racing is about SPEED. Or it least it should be. Economy should be of concern when driving to work..... Not going down the straight at Monza at 225 MPH. When have you ever heard a race fan ask, "I wonder what his gas mileage is"?
I'm not so sure about that. It's pretty obvious these cars are mostly traction limited. Sure, more power will allow more downforce, but then you get into tyre longevity. It's not as open and shut as "give 'me more power and they'll be faster". Next year should be fun. More downforce, more rubber... What's not to like.
Originally Posted By: Brad_C
It's not as open and shut as "give 'me more power and they'll be faster".
They won't be slower. As I said, we've had a decade of technology pass since the Schumacher V-10 era. And they still can't match the lap times. I won't even get into how horrible these newer engines sound compared to a non turbo V-10.
It's not as open and shut as "give 'me more power and they'll be faster".
They won't be slower. As I said, we've had a decade of technology pass since the Schumacher V-10 era. And they still can't match the lap times. I won't even get into how horrible these newer engines sound compared to a non turbo V-10.
Originally Posted By: whip
Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: whip
It's a team sport. How do you punish the team without punishing the driver?
$$$$$$$$$
Merc spent half a billion dollars developing the current power units. Do you think a million dollar fine would stop them from getting both cars to the finish?
Who said a million? Its all relative. Fines are a proven mechanism for inflicting various degrees of pain on even the biggest companies and individuals for infractions.
This wont harm Google but its sure as [censored] gonna sting.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016...monopoly-abuse/
Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: whip
It's a team sport. How do you punish the team without punishing the driver?
$$$$$$$$$
Merc spent half a billion dollars developing the current power units. Do you think a million dollar fine would stop them from getting both cars to the finish?
Who said a million? Its all relative. Fines are a proven mechanism for inflicting various degrees of pain on even the biggest companies and individuals for infractions.
This wont harm Google but its sure as [censored] gonna sting.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016...monopoly-abuse/
- Status