Tesla...

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Musk is going to be the next Bernie Madoff. There's a lot to love about Musk and his dream. There's not a whole lot to love about the reality of Tesla motors.

Failed goal after failed goal. Overvalued stock. Pipe dream after pipe dream.

I'd they started now, it would take 50 years to bring our power grid to the point where it could handle the nightly charging of an electric vehicle in every household.

Model T? Hardly. The Model T was affordable and less complex than the existing cars at the time. Musk has duplicated the very limited production super-expensive only-for-the-wealthy halo cars that Ford and the Model T superceded.

His next model simply promises to match what nissan did with the Leaf years ago.

100 years ago, this man would have been dragging his cart from town to town selling hair tonics and cloud seeds.

I actually agree with you on this.
I think today hybrids are only possible solution when it comes to electrically driven car.
Then, about conservation: what about recycling batteries? How much energy that takes?
Like you said, model T was cheap, Tesla is extremely expensive for people who usually have some gas guzzler in garage, but Tesla makes them feel better.
In the end, where is electricity if hypothetically all of us go electric? Coal? Thank you Musk, but I would rather drive internal combustion car then having coal plant next door.

 

[Lyman]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: Blkstanger
Originally Posted By: CT8
Where will the electricity come from to charge all the electric cars?

Solar panels with this setup. http://www.teslamotors.com/powerwall And I don't even believe in global warming.


Got any idea on the solar panel square footage to charge an 85KWHr battery (during daylight hours) ?
I'd guess it would take a lot bigger property then I own LOL

 

[cashmoney]

Musk is a brilliant guy and a visionary business man. The US needs many more like him to lead us into the future and keep high value technology and engineering jobs home in the US. Interesting posts on this tread, jealousy, willful ignorance, and sour grapes appear to be alive and well.

 

[bvance554]

30 years from now we'll dig up the old National Geographics and such and have a good laugh. I know I did a couple years ago when I leafed through my parents 70-80's issues. There was the threat of peak oil, the idea of a hybrid car, and how we're ushering in the little ice age.

 

[CT8]

Volcanic activity has been on the increase in the past decades and volcanoes belch lots of CO2 which is really good for plant growth. and reduces oxidation.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: cashmoney
Interesting posts on this tread, jealousy, willful ignorance, and sour grapes appear to be alive and well.

There's nothing wrong with vision and the desire to keep high tech jobs at home. If we all decide that Musk et al are absolutely correct and demand plug in electrics, we'll get them, for sure. However, any engineer in the U.S. would agree with what was already mentioned. What would happen to the grid.

We have enough trouble all over North America keeping things going when it's hot and everyone runs the AC. Plug in tens of millions of plug ins all and once and watch what happens.

Any energy or environmental problems we're having in the world (or North America or the U.S. or however specific one wishes to be) are a lot bigger than the use of gasoline in cars. Ultimately, there needs to be an energy source, and "electricity" isn't it, since that comes from somewhere.

It wouldn't be much different than if someone convinced everyone in Canada to switch to electric heat because it's not "good" for us to burn natural gas for heat. That completely ignores the role natural gas plays in electricity generation here, not to mention what would happen to the grid if it went down to -40 and everyone had electric heat.

Visionaries are needed. Being a visionary, however, doesn't entitle one to publicize harebrained plans without being called out on it.

Note that I didn't once use reactionary thinking such as saving the conventional automotive industry or not wanting to destroy oil companies or the local gas station or trucking and all the like. My criticism is constructive. Without grid capacity and electrical source issues settled, this is nothing but snake oil salesmanship.

He might as well sell a fuel cell that gets hydrogen from electrolysis powered by the fuel cell. Both will be equally effective unless power generation fundamentally changes.

 

[Shannow]

Article was balancing on a knife edge of fact most of the way through.

Fact is in Oz that I could drive a VW Amarok Turbodiesel 8 speed dual cab turbodiesel for the annual running costs of a Leaf.

http://www.racq.com.au/~/media/pdf/racq%20pdfs/cars%20and%20driving/private-vehicle-expenses-0715.ashx

 

[Vikas]

Quote:
Whats your take on it? Other than a snarky shot at me.
I'm pretty much with you but talking about Tesla in this forum is equivalent to talking about virtues of vegetarian diet at the Annual Beef Convention! One has to know who pays the bills of your target audience. If I am not mistaken, you probably know that as much as I do given your background.

 

[ls1mike]

I did not read the article but...
There are a bunch of Teslas out here in my area, close to Bainbridge Island and Seattle. Last time I went grocery shopping at out local specialty market there were 4 of them in the parking lot.

 

[Oldmoparguy1]

Originally Posted By: CT8
Volcanic activity has been on the increase in the past decades and volcanoes belch lots of CO2 which is really good for plant growth. and reduces oxidation.

Exactly.

For the life of me, I just don't understand why the man made climate change crowd has latched on to CO2 as their holy grail. As a so called greenhouse gas, it is a very minor player. There are a number of IR reflective gases that have a far greater impact on climate temperatures. The greatest greenhouse gas is water vapor. Without it, earth would be an ice planet as it once was many millions of years ago.

Fossil fuels, coal, oil, carbon based gases, are all natural products, the combination of water and atmospheric gases, catalyzed by sunlight is an ongoing process and never stops. All life on earth comes from this basic process.

If you do the research as I have done, you will find that agriculture is a major source of CO2 and methane, another IR reflective gas.. Thes gases follow the process, not precede it.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: Oldmoparguy1
Originally Posted By: CT8
Volcanic activity has been on the increase in the past decades and volcanoes belch lots of CO2 which is really good for plant growth. and reduces oxidation.

Exactly.


Well how did the volcanoes all get in lock step with each other ????

Originally Posted By: hattaresguy

You would expect volcanoes to display some more random behaviour wouldn't you ?

 

[SteveSRT8]

No actually we would expect volcanoes to exhibit cyclical behavior.

Just like our climate! It's all linked together, nothing on this planet ever stays the same for long and likely never will.

We just don't live long enough to appreciate the differences...

 

[philipp10]

Personally not that impressed with the Tesla. Even at 35k it’s a huge premium over a convention car. I can get a similar mass market car in the 22k range and the 12k covers a lot of gasoline. As far as saving the earth? Don’t buy it either. That 35k includes a fair amount of energy just to manufacture the car.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: philipp10
Personally not that impressed with the Tesla. Even at 35k it’s a huge premium over a convention car. I can get a similar mass market car in the 22k range and the 12k covers a lot of gasoline. As far as saving the earth? Don’t buy it either. That 35k includes a fair amount of energy just to manufacture the car.


All true. And the last line is the best.

How much energy and waste will the Gigafactory be responsible for...

 

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: philipp10
Personally not that impressed with the Tesla. Even at 35k it’s a huge premium over a convention car. I can get a similar mass market car in the 22k range and the 12k covers a lot of gasoline. As far as saving the earth? Don’t buy it either. That 35k includes a fair amount of energy just to manufacture the car.


All true. And the last line is the best.

How much energy and waste will the Gigafactory be responsible for...

Cars in general are a "wasteful". I don't know if building a F150 or Tesla uses more energy, but atleast once the Tesla is built, it could be powered by renewables.
Getting nice refined fossil fuels into our gas tanks isn't without a cost as well. Tar sands and shale oil aren't free to get out the ground, the $30-60 per barrel cost of production isn't spent all on CEO bonuses. It takes machinery, chemicals, which takes energy to make and transport and dispose of.
If the full environmental cost was accounted for, I would think an electric vehicle powered by locally produced renewable electricity is less expensive than maintaining the global fossil fuel infrastructure for production, refining, and distribution, for a gas car.

 

[SeaJay]

Last I looked, burning coal and natural gas accounts for a good chunk of electicity generation. Diesel oil, or #2 oil is still used in some plants.

 

[surfstar]

Originally Posted By: SeaJay
Last I looked, burning coal and natural gas accounts for a good chunk of electicity generation. Diesel oil, or #2 oil is still used in some plants.


Guess what large power plants are very good at? Efficiency. Taking electricity from a power plant and putting it into your car for fuel, is much more efficient than extracting oil from the ground, refining it into gasoline, transferring it into a tank in the ground, then into your car, which then burns it, quite inefficiently, as fuel.

So look a little harder.

 

[surfstar]

So, all of you armchair scientists who believe fossil fuels are endless and regenerated magically at the same rate that we burn them: say what?

It took millions of years for the plant life deposit and decay that created oil and gas reservoirs. We are depleted them and releasing all of that stored carbon in a matter of decades or centuries. The timescale difference is what we're effing up. Too much, too fast.

Heck even the almighty pious one is trying to get his flock to think about climate change instead of keeping your heads in the sand.



And Wait But Why is a great blog, especially on the other topics such as The Fermi Paradox, Putting Time in Perspective and others. Those who don't appreciate his writing style are likely too old to be in his audience. I agree that he let his fanboy for Elon shine through quite strongly on this one, though. Doesn't change the fact that e-cars should be the future. The Sun is a truly untapped energy source.

 

[surfstar]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: philipp10
Personally not that impressed with the Tesla. Even at 35k it’s a huge premium over a convention car. I can get a similar mass market car in the 22k range and the 12k covers a lot of gasoline. As far as saving the earth? Don’t buy it either. That 35k includes a fair amount of energy just to manufacture the car.


All true. And the last line is the best.

How much energy and waste will the Gigafactory be responsible for...


It is supposed to be net zero, once built.


Your guys' political bias is quite strong on Tesla. Read the blog at all? The last successful startup car company in America was "Chrysler in 1925—90 years ago". Tesla is indeed a possible look towards the future.

Guess who doesn't want to go that way? All the existing auto manufacturers who are tooled up to spit out the current cars and have been invested in that for decades. E-cars don't need anywhere as much maintenance, so all those overpriced service centers will suffer. No oil changes, no gas to burn. Its a huge change and everyone currently entrenched in the auto and oil industry will try to delay it for as long as possible. Why? Profits. The all mightily dollar is the only reason for them to delay facing the facts about our emissions and what we should be doing to change them.

 

[Benito]

Originally Posted By: surfstar
So, all of you armchair scientists ....


Not just any armchair. A La-Z-Boy for sure.