Mobil 1 Full-Synthetic: Full synthetic or not?

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted By: annoymyhat
Why do I keep reading on various websites that Mobil 1 Full-Synthetic motor oil isn't actually fully synthetic anymore?

Is this just a rumor?

API lets oils made of Group III, IV, or V base oils (or any blends of them) legally sold as fully synthetic. Some people will say that Group III is not really synthetic because it's actually highly processed petroleum oil. While Group IV may be slightly superior in some aspects, Group III can also be superior to Group IV, such as in viscosity index. Group V, which is any man-made base oil that is not Group IV, also has its own disadvantages and advantages.

There are fifteen presentations at the Articles link on the YUBASE® Web site, some very recent. All great reads. YUBASE® is the No. 1 worldwide manufacturer of Group III base oil. If you read these presentations, you will understand how Group III compares to other base oils.

Last but not least, API also explicitly emphasizes that "synthetic" is a marketing term and not a technical term.

 

[345hemi]

Amsoil base stock is made by Mobil. So is Amway oil not synthetic anymore? Redline is a group V but who wants to spend that much money for oil?

 

[45ACP]

Originally Posted By: annoymyhat
So...are you implying that most "full synthetic" motor oils are actually not? Or just Mobil 1?


Syntec, anyone?

Its the former..

.. but 100% correct, it doesnt matter.

 

[fxrider]

Originally Posted By: 345hemi
Amsoil base stock is made by Mobil. So is Amway oil not synthetic anymore? Redline is a group V but who wants to spend that much money for oil?
No need to bash Amsoil.

 

[45ACP]

Originally Posted By: Capa
Gotta love the Group 4 & 5 guys. When will they realize they are 1 to 2 decades behind

\

Quick Q about that, aside from cost, there is no real problem with primarily/exclusively Group IV (Royal Purple) or Group V (Redline, better than Royal Purple) oil, right?

 

[45ACP]

Originally Posted By: fxrider
Originally Posted By: 345hemi
Amsoil base stock is made by Mobil. So is Amway oil not synthetic anymore? Redline is a group V but who wants to spend that much money for oil?
No need to bash Amsoil.


Im waiting for Pablo to chime in here. I believe poster offended AMSOIL with this comment.

(sarcasm)

But, really, Pablo can tell us if it is true.

Mobil makes Supertech too, so.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: 45ACP
Originally Posted By: annoymyhat
So...are you implying that most "full synthetic" motor oils are actually not? Or just Mobil 1?


Syntec, anyone?

Its the former..

.. but 100% correct, it doesnt matter.


Only in Germany.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: 345hemi
Amsoil base stock is made by Mobil. So is Amway oil not synthetic anymore? Redline is a group V but who wants to spend that much money for oil?


Exxon-Mobil is the world's largest manufacturer of PAO base stocks, AN's all all sorts of exciting chemicals.

They will sell PAO to anybody who wants to buy it.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: 45ACP
Originally Posted By: fxrider
Originally Posted By: 345hemi
Amsoil base stock is made by Mobil. So is Amway oil not synthetic anymore? Redline is a group V but who wants to spend that much money for oil?
No need to bash Amsoil.


Im waiting for Pablo to chime in here. I believe poster offended AMSOIL with this comment.

(sarcasm)

But, really, Pablo can tell us if it is true.

Mobil makes Supertech too, so.


Mobil makes SOME Supertech, Walmart has multiple suppliers. I think the majority of it is made by WPP IIRC.

Also, AMSOIL doesn't JUST use Mobil as their source of PAO. Mobil may be the largest, but that doesn't make them the only one.

 

[84zmyfavorite]

Im a German, and I Do prefer Synthetic Oils that have a base oil thats Group 4, Group 5, or those two mixed together. Ive got 22 quarts of 2010 Castrol 0w-30 waiting to be used in a number of Jeep 4.0s!

 

[annoymyhat]

It's still 5W30 for the 2012 MS3. I just changed it out today.

 

[annoymyhat]

What about in Germany? (just out of curiosity) What constitutes "synthetic" there?

 

[annoymyhat]

I'm new here, so blame that ;-)

 

[chubbs1]

Just because a motor oil is grp IV or V does not mean it is going to give you the best protection. In certain applications it will protect better (very cold, racing/extreme heat). There are properties of different base-stock that have certain benefits, therefore a mix like Mobil 1 or Pennzoil Platinum etc may give you just as good or better results than "GC" or Redline. Comb the UOA section and you will see what I mean.

 

[buster]

There are many good synthetic base oils to choose from. Group III+, PAO's of different quality, and many esters.

 

[virginoil]

So all major oil manufacturers are now back on the same playing field.

All oils brands claiming to be synthetic have one thing for sure, most are non or reduced content of PAO.

BITOG with all its wisdom needs to come up with a new definition for what constitutes synthetic oil, what make up oils can be used to fit the synthetic class etc.

One thing for sure. PAO is now gone or obsolete.

Like Chubb1 said above,
"here are properties of different base-stock that have certain benefits, therefore a mix like Mobil 1 or Pennzoil Platinum etc may give you just as good or better results than "GC" or Redline. Comb the UOA section and you will see what I mean."

Looks like Castrol were ahead of their time when they caused Mobil to go to the FTC for Group 3 v 4 case.

It probably more relevant now that builder approvals, API, ACEA, Ilsax etc are even more important to ensure the oil make up is bench marked and tested against agreed and accepted criteria.

Otherwise who knows what is in the brew?

 

[buster]

Quote:
It probably more relevant now that builder approvals, API, ACEA, Ilsax etc are even more important to ensure the oil make up is bench marked and tested against agreed and accepted criteria.

Otherwise who knows what is in the brew?


Agree.

All of these companies are trying to differentiate their products in some way. Most of it is marketing.

 

[annoymyhat]

Wow. This forum is great. Thanks for all of the responses. A lot of it's over my head, but you guys gave me a lot of things to consider. Very interesting topic!

 

[LeakySeals]

Some on here smarter than me say the "new" synthetics are better for the engine than PAO. Whooda thunk that!

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Gokhan


There are fifteen presentations at the Articles link on the YUBASE® Web site, some very recent. All great reads. YUBASE® is the No. 1 worldwide manufacturer of Group III base oil. If you read these presentations, you will understand how Group III compares to other base oils.


Good point.

Let's have a thought about this:

Ethylene, the feedstock for PAO production is made by the following:

High molecular weight hydrocarbons are cracked over zeolite catalysts.

Kniel, Ludwig; Winter, Olaf; Stork, Karl (1980). Ethylene, keystone to the petrochemical industry. New York: M. Dekker. ISBN 0-8247-6914-7.

Group III basestock is made by the following:

Hydrocracking in the presence of an elevated partial pressure of hydrogen gas, and/or alumina/zeolite catalysts in a catalytic cracker.

Reza Sadeghbeigi (2000). Fluid Catalytic Cracking Handbook (2nd ed.). Gulf Publishing. ISBN 0-88415-289-8.

So where does it all come from? Oh yeah, crude oil, not some magic PAO well.

The difference? Number and severity of the steps and separations, all of which take energy.

If I can use a lower energy process, hat takes less steps nd gives me a finished product with very much of the same basic performance, why wouldnt I? Especially when I can blend in other stuff that will enhance performance (basestocks and adds) at fairly low treatment rates.

I think some people think that PAO and POE come from a magical synthetic basestock well...

What will they say when they learn that their ethylene is coming from coal????