Auger Gear Box Lubricant

[Rob Taggs]

Been having the usual fun time at work trying to keep my fairly new dump truck and salt/sand spreader working for the upcoming winter weather. Auger gear box according to the manual takes straight 90 weight GL-4 EP gear oil. I drained it after the first 100 hours of use and refill with the correct fluid. It ran fine and continues to do so.

My employer the State of Kansas Department of Transportation is great at never supplying us with anything the manual calls for so I use my own money to put the right lubricants in the equipment I'am assigned (I know I'm nuts!). Told my supervisor that I drained and refilled my Auger Gear box with the correct 90 weight lubricant that the manual calls for. I then got the comment that we always use 80w-90 in all the gear boxes. He also made the comment that when he drains the box on the next go around that the box will be filled with globs of gunk. Funny thing is I ran this same exact lubricant nearly all last winter and this year upon draining the old fluid it was nice and clean, unlike all the other trucks in the Fleet which all came out dirty and full of water.

I can't seem to get anyone at this organization to every crack a manual open to see what is supposed to go in what. Don't get me wrong, I'am not trying to be a know it all. I'am just concerned about the huge expense and responsibility of the truck and equipment I'am assigned. Some examples of what is done at my workplace: Putting 80w-90 in an axle that calls for 85w-140, filling leaking hubs with 80w-90 that call for 75w-90 synthetic, etc... and I forgot to mention that wheel hubs, axles, and transmissions are never drained and refilled unless theres an excessive leak or the fluid looks burned.

This place is a maintenance nightmare. They should be ashamed of their maintenance practices. I just can't understand my supervisor, he gets angry at me for doing the right thing by taking care of my assigned equipment and I'am even putting the expense on my own pocket. Guess it just does not pay to do the right thing.

Thank you for listening to my rant.

Rob T.

 

[Hemi426]

Rob,
That's very admirable and generous doing a thing like that. It shows that you believe in proper care of equipment that the taxpayers footed the bill for. They need more state workers like you.

 

[salesrep]

Imagine what an oil sales rep feels like attempting to sell them the idea of saving time and money with their lubrication practices.

 

[onion]

As a fellow mechanic, I think I understand your predicament... and i'll offer some advice. I've worked on diesel engines, trucks, construction equipment, and agricultural equipment over the years- always at dealerships. Every shop has had different preferences and at least in some respects- their own way of doing things. And it isn't NECESSARILY the 'right' way. Go with the flow; everybody's happy... but if you try to change things and institute new practices, you can be received as a hero, a know-it-all, or an idiot... depending on who you are, what you're doing, and who you're doing it for. Regardless, you're taking on some level of risk.

IMO, you're being TOO conscientious. You gotta ask yourself: what do you want out of this situation? Do you want a steady paycheck and an easy work-day? Or do you want this machinery (which is not YOUR machinery) to last as long as possible?

Sounds like those two options are somewhat mutually exclusive at your workplace. Personally, I've come to prefer the first option (steady paycheck/easy work-day), leaving decisions and liability to the higher-ups except in those situations where I'm confident that I know what I'm talking about AND following standard-operating-procedure is likely to cause ME some problem. It's all about ME... customers and their equipment be [censored]. If I need to come up with a new procedure or make specific recommendations in order to cover my own [censored], then I won't hesitate to do it. But I see no benefit in sticking my neck out and making a point just for the sake of being 'right'.

While I agree with the maintenance approach that you advocate, I just don't see why you should CARE. Applications that require 90W, 85W140, 79W90, or the like will work OK when filled with 80W90. Sure, they may not last as long as they would with the proper oil... but why is that YOUR problem?

And spending your own money on the proper fluids? You're paying your own money AND incurring extra liability. That's insane. You may have good mechanical skills, and you may be knowledgeable about maintenance & lubrication... but you need to work on your people skills and pragmatism.

 

[Rob Taggs]

Onion,

I know that one opens theirself up to all sorts of things when writing on sites but, believe me I'm not lacking in people skills. Just got done with my semi annual evaluation and as always I rated high it that catagory. Management in the organization that I work for is just like most places, there are good managers (Few) and bad managers (Abundant). I'm a firm believer that well over 80% of individuals in management positions do not belong there in all career fields.

Maybe I just give a hoot and care to go the extra mile? I pride myself in caring for equipment and doing a GOOD job. Unlike most coworkers. Yes, the truck in a way is mine. I pay taxes like most people in my state do, so in a small way the dumptruck I'm assigned is mine.

Just because my work place has mechanics , if you can call them that, that don't care to open manuals and do a proper job that does not make it my fault. Simple mechanical fixes that take a matter of minutes takes our mechanics weeks or months. Taking a truck out of service in the middle of winter to do a simple fix but, only to get it back weeks or months later is not acceptable.

If I'm not mistaken the mixing of different brands and weights of lubricants in some cases can cause additive clash? For example, I've seen a dumptruck at work that called for 85w-140 and seen my coworker put in 80w-90 and guess what? At a later date I saw the contents of the axle and it was not pretty. I also mentioned how I emptied the contents of coworkers auger gear boxes only to find them contaminated with water, etc... Heck, if I didn't care enough then who is?

My supervisor and most of the mechanics know what I've been doing and they have their channels that they can go through to have me disciplined. Don't you think it would be useless to come after me for doing the right thing and for doing someone elses job that THEY should be doing in the first place?

Rob

 

[onion]

Well, whatever floats your boat. It's your job... your decision. Personally, I've learned over the years that a man has got to pick his battles. If you try to right every wrong, correct every problem, and combat every instance of ignorance and stupidity that you encounter in life- you're gonna get burnt out... and you're gonna alienate people along the way. That's just my observation.

And as such, if nobody is going to get hurt... and if the consequences of whatever today's stupidity happens to be are not MY problem... then I mind my own business. Let that colorless, odorless, tasteless, silent, and invisible magic-man-in-the-sky sort it out. Not my problem.

But hey, go out and save the world. Battle the forces of evil and ignorance. Be and island of RIGHT in a sea of WRONG. It's given me no satisfaction... but maybe it'll work for you. I doubt it... but there's no accounting for personality or taste.

I'm just another ant in the anthill. And whether you realize it or not, YOU are just as insignificant. I try to deal with life on life's terms rather than on my terms. To do othewise implies magical thinking IMO. And I don't cotton to that.

 

[onion]

But enough philosophizing. Let's talk gear oil:


I've never seen any evidence that anything significant will come of the careless application of 80W90 that you've described. Sure, it's not ideal... but I have a hard time believing that an axle that specifies 85W140 would fail catastrophically in a short amount of time because it was filled with 80W90. Lots of equipment out there specifies either 80W90 or 85W140 (and even hydraulic oil) depending on temperature range. And the temperature ranges usually have a HUGE overlap. Often with agricultural equipment and construction equipment, you have no way of knowing exactly what oil is in a given axle, planetary hub, or the like... so you just make your best guess based on smell and feel, and top it off. I've NEVER seen the mixing of different grades and brands of oil cause a problem. Heard some talk about it... but I've e never seen it, and won't believe it until I do.

I know of an application (Case C-series wheel loaders) where the transmission was originally filled with hydraulic oil. About a year later, Case required that all of said ZF transmissions be drained and refilled with 15W40 motor oil. Naturally, you can't drain 100% of the hydraulic oil out, so there was a LOT of mixing. And it never caused a problem.

I remember my first 'real' mechanical job at a small factory in Houston TX. We built waterblasters and equipment. Long story as to what a waterblaster is and what it's used for, but suffice to say that the power end of the pump is constructed much like a mud pump used in the oilfield, or even a small pressure washer. But it was in between the two in size, powered by a diesel engine ranging from 30 to 300hp depending on the size of the pump. Anyhoo, an entire line of these pumps specified a 50/50 mix of 80W90 gear oil and 15W40 motor oil. Can't say why they chose that combination, but I CAN say that it worked just fine.

And as for your co-worker's auger with water contamination... that has nothing to do with what oil he put in there. There's obviously a leaking seal, vent, or the like. Putting the wrong oil in a gearbox will not make water magically appear.

This is a long and round-about way of saying that you're obsessing over stuff that just doesn't matter. You ARE technically correct in that one should generally follow manufacturers' recommendations when it comes to assorted lube oils. I would do so if the correct oil was available. But in most cases, 80W90 IS 'close enough' that nothing will come of it. And even if something DOES come of it... it ain't your problem. You were just following orders.

But if you keep spending your own money, and keep NOT following orders... then I guarantee that the next failure will be blamed on YOU. They may be wrong in doing so... but being 'wrong' is no obstacle to them right now... why will it be in the future?

 

[Rob Taggs]

Onion,

Thank you for the concern for my job. Maybe I forgot to say that I knew that the contamination in the gear boxes was from water. I did not imply putting different (Other than what the Manual calls for) lubricant in the gear boxes made water magically appear, give me a break. I'm not obsessing, there is a correct way of doing the job, the right way and a wrong way.

This equipment is assigned to me. Just because management, coworkers don't give hoot about their trucks and equipment does not mean I have to be fellow lunkhead. My boss may grumble but, in the end he really does not care. Heck, he is like the rest, he does not even take the time to go through manuals until something breaks down and then all of a sudden the books come open.

I really found it amusing recently when a couple of my coworkers made the comment,






'Rob's truck and equipment never breaks down." Could it be because I take care of the equipment I'm asssigned? I replied, it is probably due to me following whats stated in manuals, changing things out when they are supposed to be. Told them that you do not see my gear box leaking, told them that the guys that do have leaking gear boxes the cure for that is to put Cotton Picker Grease in them, now thats a joke because they still leak even after that-that recommendation comes from the so called mechanics, guess they are too lazy to change a gear box out?

As for any blame befalling me, that is very doubtful. Coworkers have on occasion recklessly or carelessly destroyed equipment and they are still around to do more damage. Don't see how putting the right lubricants into equipment is going to get me fired? I can always pull out the bookwork on my equipment and show the higher ups that they are ones who are wrong.

Theres a saying around my shop, "Short of murdering someone your not going to get fired around here."

Rob

 

[onion]

Well, good luck. You're a more conscientious man than I am.

 

[jaj]

Originally Posted By: Rob Taggs

Theres a saying around my shop, "Short of murdering someone your not going to get fired around here."

Rob


There are some jobs where murdering actually is less despised than "killing union jobs". If the equipment you look after never fails, then you're guilty of eliminating repair work that should be carried out by your and your co-workers.

In some places, "that's a bad thing".

Just sayin'...

 

[widman]

Unfortunately I see it every day in all municipal equipment, as well as a lot of construction companies. I worked with Scania once to find the cause of their transmissions breaking at 70,000 km. The company had ignored the book and ignored my recommendations to use 85W-140. They insisted that if Volvos could run with 80W-90, so could Scanias. They ended up replacing 8 transmissions that were not covered.

My site has dozens of examples of requests for bids published by different gov't agencies that are absolutely stupid. (sorry, Spanish only on those pages).

 

[MNgopher]

Good luck with tying to change the culture of your workplace. I too work for an arm of the government (county government in this case) and I see some of the same things you do. The good news is sometimes the things you do start to get noticed, appreciated, and implemented as standard practice. You may take some ridicule (I do all the time for going above and beyond) but the tide has turned at my employer. Going the extra mile gets noticed, and we get paid for it too (merit pay).

I have an explorer that is more or less assigned to me and two other people. There have been three cases now where I have gone to the mechanic on duty, told them exactly what the problem was, was told they didn't hear anything, and then have exactly what I told them was failing break, stranding the vehicle somewhere needing mobile service or a tow a few weeks later. The head of the maintenance shop wanted someones rear end for the failures and not catching them before they failed. I pointed out I had mentioned them, and one particular mechanic blew it off. Emails and all to document it. Turns out I wasn't the only one with that experience, and said mech was "encouraged" to find employment elsewhere...

I have not gone as far as purchasing my own fluids for my vehicle, but I have done basic repairs (say changing windshield wipers when the mechanics needed to be working on the plow trucks, not our rig.) Its now unwritten policy that we help out with things like that when we can.