It is a good practice to pre-fill filters. Results are limited but will reduce lag time. Diesel fuel filters should be filled every time.
Do you put oil in the new filter before install it
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Originally Posted By: river_rat
Originally Posted By: mechtech2
If you can, great.
Many filters don't allow this because of having TWO anti drainback valves, or their orientation causes any pre filling to spill out.
If everything else is OK, they fill almost instantaneously, anyway.
Ya. Sometimes I use Mahle OC-47 filters with that extra valve, then I don't bother.
I could pump it in but that's a hassle.
River...
I use the same filter for my VW Golf ....what I do is simply pour a little into the center and exit holes the main thing is to saturate the filtering media so that it is soaked, it is less important to have a lot of oil in the filter if the media is pretty well pre -soaked it takes very little time when you start the car with the new filter for the oil to make it through.
Originally Posted By: mechtech2
If you can, great.
Many filters don't allow this because of having TWO anti drainback valves, or their orientation causes any pre filling to spill out.
If everything else is OK, they fill almost instantaneously, anyway.
Ya. Sometimes I use Mahle OC-47 filters with that extra valve, then I don't bother.
I could pump it in but that's a hassle.
River...
I use the same filter for my VW Golf ....what I do is simply pour a little into the center and exit holes the main thing is to saturate the filtering media so that it is soaked, it is less important to have a lot of oil in the filter if the media is pretty well pre -soaked it takes very little time when you start the car with the new filter for the oil to make it through.
Originally Posted By: HWEaton
Only with diesels. That's what I was always taught. Don't ask me why, I have no good reason why other than I would get chastised if I didn't.
Yea, I've heard with diesel "turbos" if you don't pre-oil the filter, it will "blow" the turbo......said a customer coming to WM Lube, for an oil change on his truck while I was waiting in line...
but yea, pre-oiling the filter sounds like a good idea.
Only with diesels. That's what I was always taught. Don't ask me why, I have no good reason why other than I would get chastised if I didn't.
Yea, I've heard with diesel "turbos" if you don't pre-oil the filter, it will "blow" the turbo......said a customer coming to WM Lube, for an oil change on his truck while I was waiting in line...
but yea, pre-oiling the filter sounds like a good idea.
ALWAYS, without fail.
Yes me too! You want that oil where it needs to be ASAP.
Originally Posted By: onion
With my own vehicles, it depends on how the filter is mounted and what mood I'm in. If the filter is horizontal, then I don't bother. If the filter is vertical, AND it is easy to get to, AND I feel like it, then I fill it up. Not that it really matters much.
At work, it depends on the engine and what I'm doing to it. If I haven't done major work on the engine, then I don't bother (except for engines with a Huey injection system- more on that later). If I've just overhauled an engine, then I always fill up the filters- I want those new bearings to get oil ASAP seeings how they essentially have my name on them. Matter of fact, after an overhaul I prefer to pre-oil the engine if the equipment is available (filling the engine by pumping pressurized oil through the main oil galleys). But we don't have that setup at my current shop.
Originally Posted By: HWEaton
Only with diesels. That's what I was always taught. Don't ask me why, I have no good reason why other than I would get chastised if I didn't.
I don't know which diesels you're referring to or what 'their' reasoning was- but there's good reason for this practice with certain diesel engines. Engines with Huey injection systems use oil pressure to fire the injectors. No oil pressure = no start, so you have to fill the oil filter for much the same reason that you have to fill the fuel filter. I THINK this system was only used in certain medium-duty International and Caterpillar engines (including the Ford Powerstroke)... but there might be others. If you aren't sure, then it's a good practice to fill the oil filter.
To each their own. International says "No" along with Cummins. You are introducing unfiltered oil and fuel into the system. 5 microns is well..... dust. You can't see it when filling you fuel filter with the always clean can, and how do we usually fill it? from the center, that's right. The center is where the filtered "clean" product flows. As far as HUEI injectors, bleed the system or fill it. Starters turn engines, engines turn oil pumps. 10-15 km is recommended as a test drive to remove aeration from the HPOR. I was always told myself to pre-fill, I always did so carefully. After seeing results from Cummins and International testing this result I tend not to be as lazy. Hand pumps and fill holes are engineered for a reason.
Fresh re-builds? disable the injectors if you are concerned. Some manufactures recommend the use of lubriplate or clean engine oil as part of the engine bearing replacement process, so use it!!! What do the engine builders use when assembling? Hmm just a guess here, maybe the same thing? I use an oil pressure canister on some rebuilds, but only if I am able to tap into a proper port on the filter header.
MY OPINION is to just not be that lazy. Unfiltered oil with HUEI injectors? better not be anything I own, the same goes for fuel filters. Filling filters does make life quicker and easier, its like a flat rate job. Cut corners, eff the quality, just get it done fast.
With my own vehicles, it depends on how the filter is mounted and what mood I'm in. If the filter is horizontal, then I don't bother. If the filter is vertical, AND it is easy to get to, AND I feel like it, then I fill it up. Not that it really matters much.
At work, it depends on the engine and what I'm doing to it. If I haven't done major work on the engine, then I don't bother (except for engines with a Huey injection system- more on that later). If I've just overhauled an engine, then I always fill up the filters- I want those new bearings to get oil ASAP seeings how they essentially have my name on them. Matter of fact, after an overhaul I prefer to pre-oil the engine if the equipment is available (filling the engine by pumping pressurized oil through the main oil galleys). But we don't have that setup at my current shop.
Originally Posted By: HWEaton
Only with diesels. That's what I was always taught. Don't ask me why, I have no good reason why other than I would get chastised if I didn't.
I don't know which diesels you're referring to or what 'their' reasoning was- but there's good reason for this practice with certain diesel engines. Engines with Huey injection systems use oil pressure to fire the injectors. No oil pressure = no start, so you have to fill the oil filter for much the same reason that you have to fill the fuel filter. I THINK this system was only used in certain medium-duty International and Caterpillar engines (including the Ford Powerstroke)... but there might be others. If you aren't sure, then it's a good practice to fill the oil filter.
To each their own. International says "No" along with Cummins. You are introducing unfiltered oil and fuel into the system. 5 microns is well..... dust. You can't see it when filling you fuel filter with the always clean can, and how do we usually fill it? from the center, that's right. The center is where the filtered "clean" product flows. As far as HUEI injectors, bleed the system or fill it. Starters turn engines, engines turn oil pumps. 10-15 km is recommended as a test drive to remove aeration from the HPOR. I was always told myself to pre-fill, I always did so carefully. After seeing results from Cummins and International testing this result I tend not to be as lazy. Hand pumps and fill holes are engineered for a reason.
Fresh re-builds? disable the injectors if you are concerned. Some manufactures recommend the use of lubriplate or clean engine oil as part of the engine bearing replacement process, so use it!!! What do the engine builders use when assembling? Hmm just a guess here, maybe the same thing? I use an oil pressure canister on some rebuilds, but only if I am able to tap into a proper port on the filter header.
MY OPINION is to just not be that lazy. Unfiltered oil with HUEI injectors? better not be anything I own, the same goes for fuel filters. Filling filters does make life quicker and easier, its like a flat rate job. Cut corners, eff the quality, just get it done fast.
Originally Posted By: ahoier
Originally Posted By: HWEaton
Only with diesels. That's what I was always taught. Don't ask me why, I have no good reason why other than I would get chastised if I didn't.
Yea, I've heard with diesel "turbos" if you don't pre-oil the filter, it will "blow" the turbo......said a customer coming to WM Lube, for an oil change on his truck while I was waiting in line...
but yea, pre-oiling the filter sounds like a good idea.
This fellow seems to be rather ignorant to his trade. Boost leaks which result in over spooling, improper cool down times, poor oil and service intervals are some of the main "fail" issues. Generally.... not with all, but the turbo is one of the first components to receive oil on initial start up, then the crank and so on and so forth. An ISX for example, the oil feed line for the turbo comes directly out of the filter header.
Originally Posted By: HWEaton
Only with diesels. That's what I was always taught. Don't ask me why, I have no good reason why other than I would get chastised if I didn't.
Yea, I've heard with diesel "turbos" if you don't pre-oil the filter, it will "blow" the turbo......said a customer coming to WM Lube, for an oil change on his truck while I was waiting in line...
but yea, pre-oiling the filter sounds like a good idea.
This fellow seems to be rather ignorant to his trade. Boost leaks which result in over spooling, improper cool down times, poor oil and service intervals are some of the main "fail" issues. Generally.... not with all, but the turbo is one of the first components to receive oil on initial start up, then the crank and so on and so forth. An ISX for example, the oil feed line for the turbo comes directly out of the filter header.
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Quote:
To each their own. International says "No" along with Cummins. You are introducing unfiltered oil and fuel into the system. 5 microns is well..... dust. You can't see it when filling you fuel filter with the always clean can, and how do we usually fill it? from the center, that's right. The center is where the filtered "clean" product flows. As far as HUEI injectors, bleed the system or fill it. Starters turn engines, engines turn oil pumps. 10-15 km is recommended as a test drive to remove aeration from the HPOR. I was always told myself to pre-fill, I always did so carefully. After seeing results from Cummins and International testing this result I tend not to be as lazy. Hand pumps and fill holes are engineered for a reason.
Fresh re-builds? disable the injectors if you are concerned. Some manufactures recommend the use of lubriplate or clean engine oil as part of the engine bearing replacement process, so use it!!! What do the engine builders use when assembling? Hmm just a guess here, maybe the same thing? I use an oil pressure canister on some rebuilds, but only if I am able to tap into a proper port on the filter header.
MY OPINION is to just not be that lazy. Unfiltered oil with HUEI injectors? better not be anything I own, the same goes for fuel filters. Filling filters does make life quicker and easier, its like a flat rate job. Cut corners, eff the quality, just get it done fast.
Quote:
HUEI systems also have a reservoir for the HPOP to draw oil from to prevent the no start issue. If it starts and quits? well there is an issue, leak in the front cover? Worn HPOP? bad IPR? Filters not bled properly?
Well I gotta disagree with you on several counts.
First of all, fuel and oil filters can be filled from the outer holes (and this is exactly what some manufacturers recommend). So if invisible crud concerns you (and it might on my own vehicles, but I personally couldn't care less where customers' equipment is concerned), then be careful and fill from the outside. No dry starts, no excessive cranking, no invisible (imaginary?) crud.
Secondly, I don't know which engines you're familiar with, but LOTS of diesels have no hand pump. You pretty much HAVE to fill the filters or use an external electric priming pump. This is why both Cummins and Detroit specifically say to fill their canister-type filters from the outside holes. And even for those engines with a hand pump- installing a filter dry is a complete waste of time... not to mention a nasty thing to do to your starter. I mean, if you feel like pumping a hand pump (which will very likely leak or just plain not work depending on the age and model of engine) for 5 minutes then grinding on the starter- be my guest. Personally, I'll just fill the filters and start the thing up.
Thirdly: Huey systems. Again, I don't know which engines you're familiar with. But I work on International DT466 engines pretty regularly- and that HUEY oil reservior that you mention is pretty small. Holds maybe half a cup of oil- its purpose is to bleed out any air bubbles and provide a 'cushion' for startup, but it will not compensate for an empty oil filter. I can tell you from experience that if you don't fill the oil filter, it'll start and then die. Then you're gonna have to crank it- for a while. Can't say that I've ever seen a starter directly meet its demise in this exact scenario- but I HAVE seen several starters killed in the shop from excessive cranking. It's something to keep in mind when you bring old junk into the shop- the customer will invariably say: "The [censored] thing started when it came in!". So I try to keep cranking time to a minimum.
Quote:
This fellow seems to be rather ignorant to his trade. Boost leaks which result in over spooling, improper cool down times, poor oil and service intervals are some of the main "fail" issues. Generally.... not with all, but the turbo is one of the first components to receive oil on initial start up, then the crank and so on and so forth. An ISX for example, the oil feed line for the turbo comes directly out of the filter header.
Agreed on all counts. But I'll also add that lost of turbos are oversped and killed by a plugged air filter.
To each their own. International says "No" along with Cummins. You are introducing unfiltered oil and fuel into the system. 5 microns is well..... dust. You can't see it when filling you fuel filter with the always clean can, and how do we usually fill it? from the center, that's right. The center is where the filtered "clean" product flows. As far as HUEI injectors, bleed the system or fill it. Starters turn engines, engines turn oil pumps. 10-15 km is recommended as a test drive to remove aeration from the HPOR. I was always told myself to pre-fill, I always did so carefully. After seeing results from Cummins and International testing this result I tend not to be as lazy. Hand pumps and fill holes are engineered for a reason.
Fresh re-builds? disable the injectors if you are concerned. Some manufactures recommend the use of lubriplate or clean engine oil as part of the engine bearing replacement process, so use it!!! What do the engine builders use when assembling? Hmm just a guess here, maybe the same thing? I use an oil pressure canister on some rebuilds, but only if I am able to tap into a proper port on the filter header.
MY OPINION is to just not be that lazy. Unfiltered oil with HUEI injectors? better not be anything I own, the same goes for fuel filters. Filling filters does make life quicker and easier, its like a flat rate job. Cut corners, eff the quality, just get it done fast.
Quote:
HUEI systems also have a reservoir for the HPOP to draw oil from to prevent the no start issue. If it starts and quits? well there is an issue, leak in the front cover? Worn HPOP? bad IPR? Filters not bled properly?
Well I gotta disagree with you on several counts.
First of all, fuel and oil filters can be filled from the outer holes (and this is exactly what some manufacturers recommend). So if invisible crud concerns you (and it might on my own vehicles, but I personally couldn't care less where customers' equipment is concerned), then be careful and fill from the outside. No dry starts, no excessive cranking, no invisible (imaginary?) crud.
Secondly, I don't know which engines you're familiar with, but LOTS of diesels have no hand pump. You pretty much HAVE to fill the filters or use an external electric priming pump. This is why both Cummins and Detroit specifically say to fill their canister-type filters from the outside holes. And even for those engines with a hand pump- installing a filter dry is a complete waste of time... not to mention a nasty thing to do to your starter. I mean, if you feel like pumping a hand pump (which will very likely leak or just plain not work depending on the age and model of engine) for 5 minutes then grinding on the starter- be my guest. Personally, I'll just fill the filters and start the thing up.
Thirdly: Huey systems. Again, I don't know which engines you're familiar with. But I work on International DT466 engines pretty regularly- and that HUEY oil reservior that you mention is pretty small. Holds maybe half a cup of oil- its purpose is to bleed out any air bubbles and provide a 'cushion' for startup, but it will not compensate for an empty oil filter. I can tell you from experience that if you don't fill the oil filter, it'll start and then die. Then you're gonna have to crank it- for a while. Can't say that I've ever seen a starter directly meet its demise in this exact scenario- but I HAVE seen several starters killed in the shop from excessive cranking. It's something to keep in mind when you bring old junk into the shop- the customer will invariably say: "The [censored] thing started when it came in!". So I try to keep cranking time to a minimum.
Quote:
This fellow seems to be rather ignorant to his trade. Boost leaks which result in over spooling, improper cool down times, poor oil and service intervals are some of the main "fail" issues. Generally.... not with all, but the turbo is one of the first components to receive oil on initial start up, then the crank and so on and so forth. An ISX for example, the oil feed line for the turbo comes directly out of the filter header.
Agreed on all counts. But I'll also add that lost of turbos are oversped and killed by a plugged air filter.
https://quickserve.cummins.com/qs2/pubsys2/xml/en/procedures/99/99-204-008.html?q=fuel%20system%20clean%20care,%20filters.
Fuel System
TOC
When servicing any fuel system components, which can be exposed to potential contaminants, prior to disassembly, clean the fittings, mounting hardware, and the area around the component to be removed. If the surrounding areas are not clean ed, dirt or contaminants can be introduced into the fuel system .
The internal drillings of some injectors are extremely small and susceptible to plugging from contamination. Some fuel injection system s can operate at very high pressures. High pressure fuel can convert simple particles of dirt and rust into a highly abrasive contaminant that can damage the high pressure pumping components and fuel injectors.
Electrical contact clean er can be used if steam clean ing tools are not available. Use electrical contact clean er rather than compressed air, to wash dirt and debris away from fuel system fittings. Diesel fuel on exposed fuel system parts attracts airborne contaminants.
Choose lint free towels for fuel system work.
Cap and plug fuel lines, fittings, and ports whenever the fuel system is opened. Rust, dirt, and paint can enter the fuel system whenever a fuel line or other component is loosened or removed from the engine. In many instances, a good practice is to loosen a line or fitting to break the rust and paint loose, and then clean off the loosened material.
When removing fuel lines or fittings from a new or newly-painted engine, make sure to remove loose paint flakes/chips that can be created when a wrench contacts painted line nuts or fittings, or when quick disconnect fittings are removed.
Fuel filters are rated in microns. The word micron is the abbreviation for a micrometer, or one millionth of a meter. The micron rating is the size of the smallest particles that will be captured by the filter media. As a reference, a human hair is 0.003 mm [3/1000 in] in diameter. One micron measures 0.00004 mm [4/100,000 in]. The contaminants being filtered out are smaller than can be seen with the human eye, a magnifying glass, or a low powered microscope.
The tools used for fuel system troubleshooting and repair are to be clean ed regularly to avoid contamination. Like fuel system parts, tools that are coated with oil or fuel attract airborne contaminants. Remember the following points regarding your fuel system tools:
* Fuel system tools are to be kept as clean as possible.
* Clean and dry the tools before returning them to the tool box.
* If possible, store fuel system tools in sealed containers.
* Make sure fuel system tools are clean before use.
https://quickserve.cummins.com/qs2/pubsy...%20installation
006-065 Pressure Fuel Filter
Table of Contents
Install
Install
TOC
Use the correct filter (s) for your engine. It must remove a minimum of 98.7 percent of free and emulsified water. It must also have a 3-micron particle-removal efficiency. For additional filter information, see the following procedure: Refer to Procedure 018-024 in Section V.
Apply a thin coating of clean engine oil to the filter gasket surface and the center seal.
SMALL | MEDIUM | LARGE
NextNext
NOTE: Cummins®/Fleetguard® filter s are supplied with a disposable insert that will prevent fuel from entering the clean side of the filter media during pre-filling.
For engines that are not equipped with lift pumps, the pressure side and suction side fuel filter s should be pre-filled prior to installation .
SMALL | MEDIUM | LARGE
PreviousPrevious NextNext
CAUTION
Mechanical overtightening of the filter can distort the threads and damage the fuel filter seal.
NOTE: Engines equipped with priming pumps do not require the fuel filter to be filled prior to installation if the following filling procedure is followed.
Install the filter onto the filter head. Turn the filter until the gasket contacts the filter head surface.
SMALL | MEDIUM | LARGE
PreviousPrevious NextNext
Tighten the filter an additional 3/4 of a turn after the gasket contacts the filter head surface, or as specified by the filter manufacturer.
SMALL | MEDIUM | LARGE
PreviousPrevious
You are correct about the pre-filling, but read this content. During my training for Cummins certification a module called fuel system clean care was taught. The data they had collected illustrated these differences of fill/no fill. The results were very surprising. The study was conducted on oil and fuel filter contamination, progressive damage was extremely evident. To each their own I suppose.
Fuel System
TOC
When servicing any fuel system components, which can be exposed to potential contaminants, prior to disassembly, clean the fittings, mounting hardware, and the area around the component to be removed. If the surrounding areas are not clean ed, dirt or contaminants can be introduced into the fuel system .
The internal drillings of some injectors are extremely small and susceptible to plugging from contamination. Some fuel injection system s can operate at very high pressures. High pressure fuel can convert simple particles of dirt and rust into a highly abrasive contaminant that can damage the high pressure pumping components and fuel injectors.
Electrical contact clean er can be used if steam clean ing tools are not available. Use electrical contact clean er rather than compressed air, to wash dirt and debris away from fuel system fittings. Diesel fuel on exposed fuel system parts attracts airborne contaminants.
Choose lint free towels for fuel system work.
Cap and plug fuel lines, fittings, and ports whenever the fuel system is opened. Rust, dirt, and paint can enter the fuel system whenever a fuel line or other component is loosened or removed from the engine. In many instances, a good practice is to loosen a line or fitting to break the rust and paint loose, and then clean off the loosened material.
When removing fuel lines or fittings from a new or newly-painted engine, make sure to remove loose paint flakes/chips that can be created when a wrench contacts painted line nuts or fittings, or when quick disconnect fittings are removed.
Fuel filters are rated in microns. The word micron is the abbreviation for a micrometer, or one millionth of a meter. The micron rating is the size of the smallest particles that will be captured by the filter media. As a reference, a human hair is 0.003 mm [3/1000 in] in diameter. One micron measures 0.00004 mm [4/100,000 in]. The contaminants being filtered out are smaller than can be seen with the human eye, a magnifying glass, or a low powered microscope.
The tools used for fuel system troubleshooting and repair are to be clean ed regularly to avoid contamination. Like fuel system parts, tools that are coated with oil or fuel attract airborne contaminants. Remember the following points regarding your fuel system tools:
* Fuel system tools are to be kept as clean as possible.
* Clean and dry the tools before returning them to the tool box.
* If possible, store fuel system tools in sealed containers.
* Make sure fuel system tools are clean before use.
https://quickserve.cummins.com/qs2/pubsy...%20installation
006-065 Pressure Fuel Filter
Table of Contents
Install
Install
TOC
Use the correct filter (s) for your engine. It must remove a minimum of 98.7 percent of free and emulsified water. It must also have a 3-micron particle-removal efficiency. For additional filter information, see the following procedure: Refer to Procedure 018-024 in Section V.
Apply a thin coating of clean engine oil to the filter gasket surface and the center seal.
SMALL | MEDIUM | LARGE
NextNext
NOTE: Cummins®/Fleetguard® filter s are supplied with a disposable insert that will prevent fuel from entering the clean side of the filter media during pre-filling.
For engines that are not equipped with lift pumps, the pressure side and suction side fuel filter s should be pre-filled prior to installation .
SMALL | MEDIUM | LARGE
PreviousPrevious NextNext
CAUTION
Mechanical overtightening of the filter can distort the threads and damage the fuel filter seal.
NOTE: Engines equipped with priming pumps do not require the fuel filter to be filled prior to installation if the following filling procedure is followed.
Install the filter onto the filter head. Turn the filter until the gasket contacts the filter head surface.
SMALL | MEDIUM | LARGE
PreviousPrevious NextNext
Tighten the filter an additional 3/4 of a turn after the gasket contacts the filter head surface, or as specified by the filter manufacturer.
SMALL | MEDIUM | LARGE
PreviousPrevious
You are correct about the pre-filling, but read this content. During my training for Cummins certification a module called fuel system clean care was taught. The data they had collected illustrated these differences of fill/no fill. The results were very surprising. The study was conducted on oil and fuel filter contamination, progressive damage was extremely evident. To each their own I suppose.
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