I was wondering what he was getting at.
Both oils held up fine. It's just a misapplication that's all.
Both oils held up fine. It's just a misapplication that's all.
AMSOIL 5w-30, 4691 miles, 2006 Z06 LS7
- Thread starter Solaris
- Start date
- Status
Ok guys. Question....
He stated that he never went over 3k RPM until the oil temp was 130F or warmer.
Do you think that this temp is still too cold for "getting on the engine"?
It would seem to me that 130f is still a little cool. Plus we really don't know how accurate the sensor is.
Take care, Bill
He stated that he never went over 3k RPM until the oil temp was 130F or warmer.
Do you think that this temp is still too cold for "getting on the engine"?
It would seem to me that 130f is still a little cool. Plus we really don't know how accurate the sensor is.
Take care, Bill
I'd recommend redline 5w40 if you want a dual-purpose oil. HTHS is, IIRC, 4.6. Which is really, really robust.
Not to knock on the product used here, as I'm a fan of AMSOIL's and I realize this was a mis-application, but whether or not the UOA shows any degradation my belief is that the oil was failing under track use.
My guess is camshaft + hot oil temps + lots of pressure = minor scarring.
I'd personally say go with one of the best known dual-use 5w40s, which in my mind is redline.
Joe
Not to knock on the product used here, as I'm a fan of AMSOIL's and I realize this was a mis-application, but whether or not the UOA shows any degradation my belief is that the oil was failing under track use.
My guess is camshaft + hot oil temps + lots of pressure = minor scarring.
I'd personally say go with one of the best known dual-use 5w40s, which in my mind is redline.
Joe
Originally Posted By: JoeFromPA
My guess is camshaft + hot oil temps + lots of pressure = minor scarring.
These engines have a complete roller valvetrain to include fulcrum roller rockers, so I'd think that would help alleviate cam wear issues.
My guess is camshaft + hot oil temps + lots of pressure = minor scarring.
These engines have a complete roller valvetrain to include fulcrum roller rockers, so I'd think that would help alleviate cam wear issues.
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?
ubb=showflat&Number=1540233&Searchpage=2&Main=111687&Words=corvette&Search=true#Post1540233
German Castrol, 0W-30, 2974 miles, 1999 Corvette
Curious_George
Registered: 03/03/08
Posts: 9
Loc: Lake Mary, Florida 1999 Corvette, LS-1 5.7L 346 CI V-8 (2nd Sample)
MI/HR on Oil - 2,974 miles
MI/HR on Unit - 85,573
Sample Date - 10/26/08
Make Up Oil Added - 0 qts.
2nd Sample / 1st Sample / Unit (Engine) Averages / Universal Avg.
ALUMINUM - 2 / 4 / 3 / 4
CHROMIUM - 1 / 1 / 1 / 1
IRON - 10 / 15 / 13 / 15
COPPER - 4 / 5 / 5 / 35
LEAD - 4 / 13 / 9 / 7
TIN - 2 / 0 / 1 / 2
MOLYBDENUM - 4 / 12 / 8 / 64
NICKEL - 0 / 1 / 1 / 1
MANGANESE - 0 / 1 / 1 / 3
SILVER - 0 / 0 / 0 / 0
TITANIUM - 0 / 0 / 0 / 0
POTASSIUM- 2 / 2 / 2 / 1
BORON - 5 / 15 / 10 / 68
SILICON - 6 / 8 / 7 / 10
SODIUM - 5 / 7 / 6 / 7
CALCIUM - 1739 / 1800 / 1770 / 2354
MAGNESIUM - 513 / 430 / 472 / 269
PHOSPHORUS - 820 / 797 / 809 / 743
ZINC - 1035 / 1014 / 1025 / 892
BARIUM - 0 / 0 / 0 / 0
2nd Sample / 1st Sample / Nominal
cSt Viscosity @ 100°C - 64,6 / 64.1 / 59~68
SUS Viscosity @ 210°F - 11.51 / 11.35 / 9.9~12.7
Flashpoint in °F - 410 / 390 / > 385
Fuel % - < 0.5 / < 0.5 / < 2.0
Antifreeze % - 0.0 / 0.0
Water % - 0.0 / 0.0 / < 0.1
Insolubles% - 0.2 / 0.4 / < 0.6
NICK: Great recovery in lead accumulation! We thought that the high lead discovered last time was due to
something temporary, and the shorter time on the oil went far to bring lead down nicely. This shows that
bearings wore more agreeably on this oil's watch, and that's good. Other metals were low and well
balanced, so no new problems at parts were evident. In fact, nothing unusual was noted among wear metals
this time. Physically, the oil looked great. Insolubles were low, showing limited oil oxidation and no
combustion issues.
Check back to build wear trends.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post1431424
Raced 94 Corvette LT1-RedLine 10w-40 2200 miles
sidney004
Registered: 05/26/04
Posts: 71
Loc: Castro Valley,CA Car has 72,200 hard driven miles.It is taken to road race events, this sample represents 13 hours of track use(4200 RPM to 6000RPM at 280F+) The data is listed from newest sample on the left to progressively older data. First data set(Rl 10w-40),second data set(RL 10w40),third data set (RL 10w-40),fourth data set (RL 10w-30), fifth data set(Amsoil 10w-30 + red bottle Valvoline Synpower), sixth data set(Amsoil 5w-30) Amsol EAO23 filter was carried over from last two changes(8000 miles total), changed out for next cycle. Air filter changed from foam to paper.
FE 26.....33.....30.....49.....36.....94
CR 2......3......2......2......2......5
NI 2......3......2......5......7......18
AL 16.....16.....9......13.....9......34
PB 25.....35.....25.....58.....39.....111
CU 8......8......7......7......7......15
SN 23.....23.....6......15.....6......21
SI 45.....81.....34.....18.....16.....30
B 23.....41.....20.....28.....136....3
NA 37.....33.....32.....37.....16.....28
K MO 965....908....726....695....231....11
P 1056...1145...1049...1303...1348...1309
ZN 1509...1564...1170...1803...1589...1968
CA 3417...3502...2633...3605...2796...3554
MG 28.....30.....27.....254....837....427
Miles 2200...2000...3800...3000...3100...6000
Fuel T/S% H20 VIS 14.5...14.3...16.3...12.1...13.5...12.8
Interesting how the Al, Cu and Sn are identical to the last batch, what a coincidence!
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post1306952
_______________________
Here are the latest oil analysis results from my 98 Corvette
Analysis by Wearcheck Canada
5800 miles on oil
Nov 14 to July 18 (8 months)
106,000 miles on the car
Pennzoil Platinum 5w30
NAPA Nascar oil filter
Vararam cold air kit (with a cotton gauze filter)
LS1 5.7L V8 engine
7 qt oil capacity
1.5 qts of makeup oil added
Oil life monitor was at 12%
Iron 18
Lead 3
Aluminum 12
Copper 1
Chromium 2
Tin 1
Silver 0
Titanium 0
Nickel 0
Silicon 11
Potassium 0
Sodium 0
Boron 38
Barium 0
Vanadium 0
Manganese 1
Sulfur 2301
Calcium 3257
Magnesium 19
Moly 57
Phosphorus 763
Zinc 909
Oxidation 69
Nitration 53
Sulfation 57
*note, the above three values are not percentages*
ZDDP 17.5
Viscosity at 40c 58.7
Viscosity at 100c 10.9
Viscosity Index 180
I changed the oil earlier than I had planned (I always wait for the oil life monitor to hit zero) because my Fram Sure Drain plug system was starting to leak oil and messing up my garage floor. Luckily I had a spare new one to replace it.
I refilled the crankcase with Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 again, but this time I am using the Fram Extended Guard oil filter.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post1456702
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post1288511
Elevated iron:
Royal Purple 10W40, '96 LT4 Vette, 3,150 miles
Michael SR
Registered: 08/29/02
Posts: 308
Loc: Houston, TX i forget the exact total mileage on the engine, it's roughly 30,000 miles. this was about a 6 month interval, about 12 auto-xes, some romps in between. RP was not by choice, just happened to be on the shelf at the shop when i resealed the intake manifold (note high silicon).
the engine has a GM "HOT" cam, longtube headers, and some WOT tuning (a touch leaner), but is otherwise stock.
amsoil oil filter. half a quart of makeup oil, about 1000 miles prior to draining. (the TBN is still unbelievable, even given the makeup oil.)
Al 8
Chr 2
Fe 54
Cu 7
Pb 12
Sn 1
Moly 61
Ni 1
Potassium 12
Boron 4
Silicon 65
Sodium 10
Calcium 3046
Magnesium 367
Phos 847
Zinc 1204
Barium 11
TBN 9.3
SUS 74.0
Flashpoint 355
Fuel 0.8%
Coolant & Water 0.0%
Insolubles 0.2%
blackstone's comments: Considering this engine sees harder wear than most of the engines in our average file, we think yours is wearing quite well. We did find a little bit of fuel dilution, which is common in engines that see a lot of idling and/or racing. Note silicon, probably from sealers or an additive.
i'd appreciate any and all comments and analyses. thanks.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...true#Post232343
Registered: 08/29/02
Posts: 308
Loc: Houston, TX Here is some information on this engine. I changed the rod bearings right after draining this oil. The engine had ~2000 miles at this point, and had been beat hard in both racing and countless dyno runs. Given that the bearings were "bad," and that there were visible metal flakes in the oil i drained out, i'm really surprised at how good this report is. oh, and this is using a K&N 3002 oil filter.
Al 2Cr 1Fe 14Cu 28Pb 13Mo 40Mn 1K 2B 6Si 55Na 4Ca 3614Mg 101P 812Zn 957SUS 100C 65.8flash 395fuel
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...true#Post257171
02 Vette - GC - 2K miles - LS1 Engine
vettenuts
Registered: 11/14/02
Posts: 240
Loc: Rhode Island This should be fun.
I sent this sample to Terry for his interpretation and thought it would be worth some discussion here on BITOG. Here is the background, a little complicated, but here it goes. In the fall of 05 I installed a new cam, timing chain, rockers, pushrods with guide plates in my 02 Vette. Subsequent to the cam installation, I had the car dyno tuned where the parameters of the computer are updated for the new setup. Approximatley 1,000 miles later I did an oil change with GC and a Baldwin filter.
This spring, after planning all winter, I started the car after storage and drove it about 20 miles to make sure it was running good. I then put it back in the garage for major surgery again and then tore it down and installed new heads (these were brand new Dart heads so they included new valves, new guides, etc.) new lifters and new pushrods which needed to be shortened for the new lifters. The lifters were also packed with a grease that washed out in this batch of oil. The grease was black and I would suspect it had moly in it. I tried to rinse it out with oil by soaking the lifters and then rotating the roller while submerged in oil by hand. The manufacturer told me to use this procedure and not use a cleaner to do this as it might have the potential to start the motor with poorly lubricated rollers. I would guess that there was grease remaining in the lifters. The lifters were Morel's, if that helps at all. I spoke to Rick Morel before installing them to get his recommendations on preparation and followed them to a "T".
When I installed the heads, I drained the block of coolant as best I could, but there was some remaining coolant in the heads when I pulled them and it spilled. Not sure how much, if any, entered the motor but it may be the source of some of the coolant. I have not lost any coolant since the head change, at least not a measurable amount that is observed in the recovery tank. I have kept a close eye on it because of the new head gaskets. I also used Redline Assembly Lube during setup.
I also had to have the tuning in the computer changed after installing the heads. I had an issue when the car was on the dyno in that the K&N filter was clogged with pollen from all the pollen last spring. The dyno tune is the last step in the process, a street tune is done first to ensure all the fuel trims and timing is correct for normal street driving. The dyno is for WOT tuning and my tuner is very conservative with his tunes (not too lean). We cleaned the K&N with air and finished the tune on the dyno, but what we didn't realize at the time was his tuning for normal street driving was wrong because he calibrated the MAF with the clogged air filter. I then changed air filter setups and now run a system with the Green filter, but it is still an oiled filter. However, because the filter was clogged and the tune was done for street running with the clogged filter, when I put in the new Green filter the MAF was not correctly calibrated and I spent two months chasing a rich code that was turning on the check engine light. As part of my diagnosis, I also did an injector balance test. We found the problem and corrected the MAF calibration, no more rich codes since but there was almost two months of driving with this problem. Not sure if this accounts for the fuel but I did notice my tailpipes have cleaned up a bit after the fix was made. Fuel trims are now in the -2 to -6% range.
Hopefully, this explains some of the things you see in this analysis. Let me know if you have other questions. The car runs great, hasn't used any oil or coolant at all and seems to be functioning perfectly normal. So, what does the collective community think of this one?
2002 Corvette w/modified LS1
21,200 miles on car
2,190 miles on oil (oil was changed with this sample)
Iron 38
Copper 95
Tin 0
Lead 7
Chromium 8
Nickel 2
Aluminum 13
Titanium 0
Silver 0
Calcium 2,177
Magnesium 186
Zinc 997
Phosphorus 774
Barium 1
Molybdenum 12
Antimony 0
Silicon 46
Sodium 11
Boron 1
Potassium 0
Vanadium 0
Viscosity (40/100) 68.3/11.6
TAN 1.35
Flashpoint 360
Oxidation 16
Nitration 10
Water (KF-ppm)384
TBN 7.20
Fuel 219
Soot 0
Glycol/Coolant 2.027
Viscosity Index 165
Sulfate Byrproduct 21
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post1565742
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...true#Post224193
Sooooo, which one of those is a Z06?
Very typical.......
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?
ubb=showflat&Number=1540233&Searchpage=2&Main=111687&Words=corvette&Search=true#Post1540233
German Castrol, 0W-30, 2974 miles, 1999 Corvette
Curious_George
Registered: 03/03/08
Posts: 9
Loc: Lake Mary, Florida 1999 Corvette, LS-1 5.7L 346 CI V-8 (2nd Sample)
MI/HR on Oil - 2,974 miles
MI/HR on Unit - 85,573
Sample Date - 10/26/08
Make Up Oil Added - 0 qts.
2nd Sample / 1st Sample / Unit (Engine) Averages / Universal Avg.
ALUMINUM - 2 / 4 / 3 / 4
CHROMIUM - 1 / 1 / 1 / 1
IRON - 10 / 15 / 13 / 15
COPPER - 4 / 5 / 5 / 35
LEAD - 4 / 13 / 9 / 7
TIN - 2 / 0 / 1 / 2
MOLYBDENUM - 4 / 12 / 8 / 64
NICKEL - 0 / 1 / 1 / 1
MANGANESE - 0 / 1 / 1 / 3
SILVER - 0 / 0 / 0 / 0
TITANIUM - 0 / 0 / 0 / 0
POTASSIUM- 2 / 2 / 2 / 1
BORON - 5 / 15 / 10 / 68
SILICON - 6 / 8 / 7 / 10
SODIUM - 5 / 7 / 6 / 7
CALCIUM - 1739 / 1800 / 1770 / 2354
MAGNESIUM - 513 / 430 / 472 / 269
PHOSPHORUS - 820 / 797 / 809 / 743
ZINC - 1035 / 1014 / 1025 / 892
BARIUM - 0 / 0 / 0 / 0
2nd Sample / 1st Sample / Nominal
cSt Viscosity @ 100°C - 64,6 / 64.1 / 59~68
SUS Viscosity @ 210°F - 11.51 / 11.35 / 9.9~12.7
Flashpoint in °F - 410 / 390 / > 385
Fuel % - < 0.5 / < 0.5 / < 2.0
Antifreeze % - 0.0 / 0.0
Water % - 0.0 / 0.0 / < 0.1
Insolubles% - 0.2 / 0.4 / < 0.6
NICK: Great recovery in lead accumulation! We thought that the high lead discovered last time was due to
something temporary, and the shorter time on the oil went far to bring lead down nicely. This shows that
bearings wore more agreeably on this oil's watch, and that's good. Other metals were low and well
balanced, so no new problems at parts were evident. In fact, nothing unusual was noted among wear metals
this time. Physically, the oil looked great. Insolubles were low, showing limited oil oxidation and no
combustion issues.
Check back to build wear trends.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post1431424
Raced 94 Corvette LT1-RedLine 10w-40 2200 miles
sidney004
Registered: 05/26/04
Posts: 71
Loc: Castro Valley,CA Car has 72,200 hard driven miles.It is taken to road race events, this sample represents 13 hours of track use(4200 RPM to 6000RPM at 280F+) The data is listed from newest sample on the left to progressively older data. First data set(Rl 10w-40),second data set(RL 10w40),third data set (RL 10w-40),fourth data set (RL 10w-30), fifth data set(Amsoil 10w-30 + red bottle Valvoline Synpower), sixth data set(Amsoil 5w-30) Amsol EAO23 filter was carried over from last two changes(8000 miles total), changed out for next cycle. Air filter changed from foam to paper.
FE 26.....33.....30.....49.....36.....94
CR 2......3......2......2......2......5
NI 2......3......2......5......7......18
AL 16.....16.....9......13.....9......34
PB 25.....35.....25.....58.....39.....111
CU 8......8......7......7......7......15
SN 23.....23.....6......15.....6......21
SI 45.....81.....34.....18.....16.....30
B 23.....41.....20.....28.....136....3
NA 37.....33.....32.....37.....16.....28
K MO 965....908....726....695....231....11
P 1056...1145...1049...1303...1348...1309
ZN 1509...1564...1170...1803...1589...1968
CA 3417...3502...2633...3605...2796...3554
MG 28.....30.....27.....254....837....427
Miles 2200...2000...3800...3000...3100...6000
Fuel T/S% H20 VIS 14.5...14.3...16.3...12.1...13.5...12.8
Interesting how the Al, Cu and Sn are identical to the last batch, what a coincidence!
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post1306952
_______________________
Here are the latest oil analysis results from my 98 Corvette
Analysis by Wearcheck Canada
5800 miles on oil
Nov 14 to July 18 (8 months)
106,000 miles on the car
Pennzoil Platinum 5w30
NAPA Nascar oil filter
Vararam cold air kit (with a cotton gauze filter)
LS1 5.7L V8 engine
7 qt oil capacity
1.5 qts of makeup oil added
Oil life monitor was at 12%
Iron 18
Lead 3
Aluminum 12
Copper 1
Chromium 2
Tin 1
Silver 0
Titanium 0
Nickel 0
Silicon 11
Potassium 0
Sodium 0
Boron 38
Barium 0
Vanadium 0
Manganese 1
Sulfur 2301
Calcium 3257
Magnesium 19
Moly 57
Phosphorus 763
Zinc 909
Oxidation 69
Nitration 53
Sulfation 57
*note, the above three values are not percentages*
ZDDP 17.5
Viscosity at 40c 58.7
Viscosity at 100c 10.9
Viscosity Index 180
I changed the oil earlier than I had planned (I always wait for the oil life monitor to hit zero) because my Fram Sure Drain plug system was starting to leak oil and messing up my garage floor. Luckily I had a spare new one to replace it.
I refilled the crankcase with Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 again, but this time I am using the Fram Extended Guard oil filter.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post1456702
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post1288511
Elevated iron:
Royal Purple 10W40, '96 LT4 Vette, 3,150 miles
Michael SR
Registered: 08/29/02
Posts: 308
Loc: Houston, TX i forget the exact total mileage on the engine, it's roughly 30,000 miles. this was about a 6 month interval, about 12 auto-xes, some romps in between. RP was not by choice, just happened to be on the shelf at the shop when i resealed the intake manifold (note high silicon).
the engine has a GM "HOT" cam, longtube headers, and some WOT tuning (a touch leaner), but is otherwise stock.
amsoil oil filter. half a quart of makeup oil, about 1000 miles prior to draining. (the TBN is still unbelievable, even given the makeup oil.)
Al 8
Chr 2
Fe 54
Cu 7
Pb 12
Sn 1
Moly 61
Ni 1
Potassium 12
Boron 4
Silicon 65
Sodium 10
Calcium 3046
Magnesium 367
Phos 847
Zinc 1204
Barium 11
TBN 9.3
SUS 74.0
Flashpoint 355
Fuel 0.8%
Coolant & Water 0.0%
Insolubles 0.2%
blackstone's comments: Considering this engine sees harder wear than most of the engines in our average file, we think yours is wearing quite well. We did find a little bit of fuel dilution, which is common in engines that see a lot of idling and/or racing. Note silicon, probably from sealers or an additive.
i'd appreciate any and all comments and analyses. thanks.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...true#Post232343
Registered: 08/29/02
Posts: 308
Loc: Houston, TX Here is some information on this engine. I changed the rod bearings right after draining this oil. The engine had ~2000 miles at this point, and had been beat hard in both racing and countless dyno runs. Given that the bearings were "bad," and that there were visible metal flakes in the oil i drained out, i'm really surprised at how good this report is. oh, and this is using a K&N 3002 oil filter.
Al 2Cr 1Fe 14Cu 28Pb 13Mo 40Mn 1K 2B 6Si 55Na 4Ca 3614Mg 101P 812Zn 957SUS 100C 65.8flash 395fuel
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...true#Post257171
02 Vette - GC - 2K miles - LS1 Engine
vettenuts
Registered: 11/14/02
Posts: 240
Loc: Rhode Island This should be fun.
I sent this sample to Terry for his interpretation and thought it would be worth some discussion here on BITOG. Here is the background, a little complicated, but here it goes. In the fall of 05 I installed a new cam, timing chain, rockers, pushrods with guide plates in my 02 Vette. Subsequent to the cam installation, I had the car dyno tuned where the parameters of the computer are updated for the new setup. Approximatley 1,000 miles later I did an oil change with GC and a Baldwin filter.
This spring, after planning all winter, I started the car after storage and drove it about 20 miles to make sure it was running good. I then put it back in the garage for major surgery again and then tore it down and installed new heads (these were brand new Dart heads so they included new valves, new guides, etc.) new lifters and new pushrods which needed to be shortened for the new lifters. The lifters were also packed with a grease that washed out in this batch of oil. The grease was black and I would suspect it had moly in it. I tried to rinse it out with oil by soaking the lifters and then rotating the roller while submerged in oil by hand. The manufacturer told me to use this procedure and not use a cleaner to do this as it might have the potential to start the motor with poorly lubricated rollers. I would guess that there was grease remaining in the lifters. The lifters were Morel's, if that helps at all. I spoke to Rick Morel before installing them to get his recommendations on preparation and followed them to a "T".
When I installed the heads, I drained the block of coolant as best I could, but there was some remaining coolant in the heads when I pulled them and it spilled. Not sure how much, if any, entered the motor but it may be the source of some of the coolant. I have not lost any coolant since the head change, at least not a measurable amount that is observed in the recovery tank. I have kept a close eye on it because of the new head gaskets. I also used Redline Assembly Lube during setup.
I also had to have the tuning in the computer changed after installing the heads. I had an issue when the car was on the dyno in that the K&N filter was clogged with pollen from all the pollen last spring. The dyno tune is the last step in the process, a street tune is done first to ensure all the fuel trims and timing is correct for normal street driving. The dyno is for WOT tuning and my tuner is very conservative with his tunes (not too lean). We cleaned the K&N with air and finished the tune on the dyno, but what we didn't realize at the time was his tuning for normal street driving was wrong because he calibrated the MAF with the clogged air filter. I then changed air filter setups and now run a system with the Green filter, but it is still an oiled filter. However, because the filter was clogged and the tune was done for street running with the clogged filter, when I put in the new Green filter the MAF was not correctly calibrated and I spent two months chasing a rich code that was turning on the check engine light. As part of my diagnosis, I also did an injector balance test. We found the problem and corrected the MAF calibration, no more rich codes since but there was almost two months of driving with this problem. Not sure if this accounts for the fuel but I did notice my tailpipes have cleaned up a bit after the fix was made. Fuel trims are now in the -2 to -6% range.
Hopefully, this explains some of the things you see in this analysis. Let me know if you have other questions. The car runs great, hasn't used any oil or coolant at all and seems to be functioning perfectly normal. So, what does the collective community think of this one?
2002 Corvette w/modified LS1
21,200 miles on car
2,190 miles on oil (oil was changed with this sample)
Iron 38
Copper 95
Tin 0
Lead 7
Chromium 8
Nickel 2
Aluminum 13
Titanium 0
Silver 0
Calcium 2,177
Magnesium 186
Zinc 997
Phosphorus 774
Barium 1
Molybdenum 12
Antimony 0
Silicon 46
Sodium 11
Boron 1
Potassium 0
Vanadium 0
Viscosity (40/100) 68.3/11.6
TAN 1.35
Flashpoint 360
Oxidation 16
Nitration 10
Water (KF-ppm)384
TBN 7.20
Fuel 219
Soot 0
Glycol/Coolant 2.027
Viscosity Index 165
Sulfate Byrproduct 21
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post1565742
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...true#Post224193
Sooooo, which one of those is a Z06?
Very typical.......
Originally Posted By: buster
Thanks for destroying this thread AJ.
The Mobil 1 held up better then the Amsoil, but not much can be determined by two UOA's.
No problem. I'll be shure to get your permission before posting some other Corvette UOAs for the original poster. I didn't think it had anything to do with you, but if you say so...ok.
I can pretty much guarantee 15w-40 would produce a better, if not ideal, result than what was already used or anything mentioned so far, but nobody wants to hear that because it's too obvious.
Thanks for destroying this thread AJ.
The Mobil 1 held up better then the Amsoil, but not much can be determined by two UOA's.
No problem. I'll be shure to get your permission before posting some other Corvette UOAs for the original poster. I didn't think it had anything to do with you, but if you say so...ok.
I can pretty much guarantee 15w-40 would produce a better, if not ideal, result than what was already used or anything mentioned so far, but nobody wants to hear that because it's too obvious.
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: ADFD1
Seems like two track days made the difference? He hit high rpms with the Mobil 1 oil as well as the Amsoil. Only difference in his comments was 2 track days. I would have thought the Amsoil would have held up just a little better than it did?
Oil held up fine. Show me the signs of degradation. Yes two track days can make a huge difference. Some people are just confused - Amsoil ASL 5W-30 is NOT a racing oil, not a high P monster cam protection oil. It's a long drain street oil. I just don't get why people don't understand this.
Maybe "held up" was a poor choice of words. "Didn't protect well in this app" might have been a better choice of words. What oil is spec'd for the engine? If it is 5W30 then the oil didn't do such a good job IMO. RL might be a better choice. Does GM call for a racing oil for this car? My guess is people who buy them use them for some spirited driving. If so maybe they should state use a racing oil?
Go easy here I want to learn the value of these UOA's.
Originally Posted By: ADFD1
Seems like two track days made the difference? He hit high rpms with the Mobil 1 oil as well as the Amsoil. Only difference in his comments was 2 track days. I would have thought the Amsoil would have held up just a little better than it did?
Oil held up fine. Show me the signs of degradation. Yes two track days can make a huge difference. Some people are just confused - Amsoil ASL 5W-30 is NOT a racing oil, not a high P monster cam protection oil. It's a long drain street oil. I just don't get why people don't understand this.
Maybe "held up" was a poor choice of words. "Didn't protect well in this app" might have been a better choice of words. What oil is spec'd for the engine? If it is 5W30 then the oil didn't do such a good job IMO. RL might be a better choice. Does GM call for a racing oil for this car? My guess is people who buy them use them for some spirited driving. If so maybe they should state use a racing oil?
Go easy here I want to learn the value of these UOA's.
Sorry, I didn't mean to come off as harsh or anything. My apologies. I get a bit passionate about these things.
GM calls for 5W-30 per GM4718M. I think spirited driving on the highway is vastly different than race track conditions. RL 5W-30 MAY have done a better job here, purely because it's not an SM oil.
As for the value of UOA's - let's look at this from another angle. Let us assume both of these were race track UOA's (not just the Amsoil). Although Amsoil has a bit better base oil combination, a bit higher B and is a long drain oil - it's not that much different from M1. I mean look at the viscosities and the other additives. That said - what is the problem that is inflaming everyone's anuses here? Fe. Almost all the other metals are UOA identical. Both have relatively high Cr and Ni - where is this coming from? Probably rings - break in or wear? Probably a little of both. But most likely during extended full throttle racing conditions the rings were contacting areas and taking shapes/angles that just didn't happen on the street. GM doesn't necessarily specify their street oils for such conditions. Then there remains the elephant in the room. What if there is a problem with the engine? I'm not saying there is, nor do I want the OP to worry, but looking at these two UOA's cannot rule out that possibility. The weaknesses of single pass UOA's raise their ugly head.
Would a 40 or 50 help? Maybe. Heck you could try Amsoil 15W-50 Racing Oil.
Amsoil RD50 Racing Oil
GM calls for 5W-30 per GM4718M. I think spirited driving on the highway is vastly different than race track conditions. RL 5W-30 MAY have done a better job here, purely because it's not an SM oil.
As for the value of UOA's - let's look at this from another angle. Let us assume both of these were race track UOA's (not just the Amsoil). Although Amsoil has a bit better base oil combination, a bit higher B and is a long drain oil - it's not that much different from M1. I mean look at the viscosities and the other additives. That said - what is the problem that is inflaming everyone's anuses here? Fe. Almost all the other metals are UOA identical. Both have relatively high Cr and Ni - where is this coming from? Probably rings - break in or wear? Probably a little of both. But most likely during extended full throttle racing conditions the rings were contacting areas and taking shapes/angles that just didn't happen on the street. GM doesn't necessarily specify their street oils for such conditions. Then there remains the elephant in the room. What if there is a problem with the engine? I'm not saying there is, nor do I want the OP to worry, but looking at these two UOA's cannot rule out that possibility. The weaknesses of single pass UOA's raise their ugly head.
Would a 40 or 50 help? Maybe. Heck you could try Amsoil 15W-50 Racing Oil.
Amsoil RD50 Racing Oil
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Originally Posted By: Pablo
not a high P monster cam protection oil. It's a long drain street oil. I just don't get why people don't understand this.
Pablo:
The LSx engines have roller cam bearings and roller lifters. The valvetrain is also very light and the spring pressures are not extreme either. It is a good setup. There isn't a lot of "monster cam protection" needed with these engines.
not a high P monster cam protection oil. It's a long drain street oil. I just don't get why people don't understand this.
Pablo:
The LSx engines have roller cam bearings and roller lifters. The valvetrain is also very light and the spring pressures are not extreme either. It is a good setup. There isn't a lot of "monster cam protection" needed with these engines.
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: Pablo
not a high P monster cam protection oil. It's a long drain street oil. I just don't get why people don't understand this.
Pablo:
The LSx engines have roller cam bearings and roller lifters. The valvetrain is also very light and the spring pressures are not extreme either. It is a good setup. There isn't a lot of "monster cam protection" needed with these engines.
I understand that....I was just stating the fact of what the oil is. I never stated anywhere I think the wear is from the valve train. In fact if you read what I posted this AM, quite the contrary.
Originally Posted By: Pablo
not a high P monster cam protection oil. It's a long drain street oil. I just don't get why people don't understand this.
Pablo:
The LSx engines have roller cam bearings and roller lifters. The valvetrain is also very light and the spring pressures are not extreme either. It is a good setup. There isn't a lot of "monster cam protection" needed with these engines.
I understand that....I was just stating the fact of what the oil is. I never stated anywhere I think the wear is from the valve train. In fact if you read what I posted this AM, quite the contrary.
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Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?
ubb=showflat&Number=1540233&Searchpage=2&Main=111687&Words=corvette&Search=true#Post1540233
German Castrol, 0W-30, 2974 miles, 1999 Corvette
Curious_George
Registered: 03/03/08
Posts: 9
Loc: Lake Mary, Florida 1999 Corvette, LS-1 5.7L 346 CI V-8
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http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post1431424
Raced 94 Corvette LT1-RedLine 10w-40 2200 miles
sidney004
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http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post1306952
_______________________
Here are the latest oil analysis results from my 98 Corvette
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http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post1456702
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post1288511
Elevated iron:
Royal Purple 10W40, '96 LT4 Vette, 3,150 miles
Michael SR
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http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...true#Post232343
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http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...true#Post257171
02 Vette - GC - 2K miles - LS1 Engine
vettenuts
2002 Corvette w/modified LS1
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http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post1565742
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http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...true#Post224193
So where's the 505HP, 427ci LS7 in all of those that is the same as the OP's? All I see are a few LT-series engines, which are a COMPLETELY different engine family, and a few 346ci LS1's..... Which make almost 200HP less and have no where near the cylinder wall area covered by the rings during a single stroke event.....
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?
ubb=showflat&Number=1540233&Searchpage=2&Main=111687&Words=corvette&Search=true#Post1540233
German Castrol, 0W-30, 2974 miles, 1999 Corvette
Curious_George
Registered: 03/03/08
Posts: 9
Loc: Lake Mary, Florida 1999 Corvette, LS-1 5.7L 346 CI V-8
************************************
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post1431424
Raced 94 Corvette LT1-RedLine 10w-40 2200 miles
sidney004
************************************
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post1306952
_______________________
Here are the latest oil analysis results from my 98 Corvette
************************************
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post1456702
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post1288511
Elevated iron:
Royal Purple 10W40, '96 LT4 Vette, 3,150 miles
Michael SR
************************************
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...true#Post232343
************************************
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...true#Post257171
02 Vette - GC - 2K miles - LS1 Engine
vettenuts
2002 Corvette w/modified LS1
************************************
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post1565742
************************************
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...true#Post224193
So where's the 505HP, 427ci LS7 in all of those that is the same as the OP's? All I see are a few LT-series engines, which are a COMPLETELY different engine family, and a few 346ci LS1's..... Which make almost 200HP less and have no where near the cylinder wall area covered by the rings during a single stroke event.....
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
...I need to alleviate his worries about "dino" oil in a synth spec car, but the base oil in 15w-40 is clean. For shure, oem Mobil 1 5w-30 is very weak sauce....
Um, you don't have a car that spec's OEM spec'd synth, so maybe you should find some other thread to troll...I'm pretty sure M1 5W-30 would do just fine in your engines.
...I need to alleviate his worries about "dino" oil in a synth spec car, but the base oil in 15w-40 is clean. For shure, oem Mobil 1 5w-30 is very weak sauce....
Um, you don't have a car that spec's OEM spec'd synth, so maybe you should find some other thread to troll...I'm pretty sure M1 5W-30 would do just fine in your engines.
Last edited:
Solaris, you are racing. Road racing / tracks = Redline. At your oil temperatures, the dry sump system is doing a good job of cooling. I would use 10w40 or 15w50. GM would probably recommend changing it after each event if you asked them.
The iron has to be rings and cylinder bores. This is a long stroke engine with less than perfect rod geometry. The high additives and HTHS are just as important on the cylinders as the bearings. I agree with the other posters, the LS7 has a very mild cam.
Given the low lead number, you don't appear to have a bearing issue. With the low aluminum number, it looks like high rpm ring and cylinder wall wear.
If you track with the Delo, change it every time.
The iron has to be rings and cylinder bores. This is a long stroke engine with less than perfect rod geometry. The high additives and HTHS are just as important on the cylinders as the bearings. I agree with the other posters, the LS7 has a very mild cam.
Given the low lead number, you don't appear to have a bearing issue. With the low aluminum number, it looks like high rpm ring and cylinder wall wear.
If you track with the Delo, change it every time.
He never turned over 3000 RPM's my Camry does 3000 RPM's going 70-75 MPH in 5th gear. So lets not make a big deal out of his track time that is easier then my daily commute in terms of how many RPM's I am turning constantly. In fact I normal shift at around 3000 RPM's when not accelerating hard like just normal take my time driving!
If I recall properly in 6th gear his Corvette is turning what 1200RPM going 70MPH's on the HWY? So lets keep all of this in perspective.
What really has me shocked is that the copper is so low normally most GM V8's throw copper in the double to triple digits for the first 50K miles or more.
Look at those insolubles they are sky high for being under 5000 miles and on a fairly new and clean engine 16K on engine. The Flash point is also dreadful!
Is this engine making any unusual noise's? Any codes thrown while using it?
I can not blame the oil alone on this one because I do not think the oil is too blame. What you describe are super easy conditions for a true synthetic oil between your RPM's and Oil Temp. this oil should not have had any isues at all. So I am wondering if you have something in your valve train that is getting ready to fail like a roller rocker or lifter etc......?
In the mean time try something completely and totaly different in terms of chemistry I would try M1 0W40 or RTS 5W40 and see what you get.....
I think Pablo is making too much of the track time in this instance. 3000RPM does not make any impact on this you must have been on a banked oval and not a road course if you where able to keep the oil temp down and rpm's to 3000. The only thing to be wary of on ovals is oil supply once you pass 2g's.....A lot of import guys will over fill by 1 quart but I would imagine that GM thought of this already and designed the Corvette to have amble oil supply in a banked oval.In fact if I was driving this car in Germany as a daily driver I can assure you that it would see higher RPM's on the autobahn then you used at the track and it would see these almost daily.
People see buzz words like "track time" and all logic goes to the wind. Some one driving a Corvette in stock trim around an oval at 3000 RPM at around 150-180MPH is nothing to write home to mom about. On the other hand a guy with a little WRX that has been modified in almost every way that is turning 8000+ RPM's and down shifting and accelrating over and over again on a road course running way to rich most of the time when not at WOT that is running 26lbs of boost is a completely different type of impact on that "track day" as compared to the above milk run!
Something is not right but I would not blame it all on the oil just yet! Try another oil like M1 0W40 and try to get in a track day as well with or just take your shift points up to 3000 RPM on the street and you can simulate much the same thing with out breaking the speed limit too bad. I would also pop the valve cover off since it is so easy to do so and take a look for any abnormal wear!
If I recall properly in 6th gear his Corvette is turning what 1200RPM going 70MPH's on the HWY? So lets keep all of this in perspective.
What really has me shocked is that the copper is so low normally most GM V8's throw copper in the double to triple digits for the first 50K miles or more.
Look at those insolubles they are sky high for being under 5000 miles and on a fairly new and clean engine 16K on engine. The Flash point is also dreadful!
Is this engine making any unusual noise's? Any codes thrown while using it?
I can not blame the oil alone on this one because I do not think the oil is too blame. What you describe are super easy conditions for a true synthetic oil between your RPM's and Oil Temp. this oil should not have had any isues at all. So I am wondering if you have something in your valve train that is getting ready to fail like a roller rocker or lifter etc......?
In the mean time try something completely and totaly different in terms of chemistry I would try M1 0W40 or RTS 5W40 and see what you get.....
I think Pablo is making too much of the track time in this instance. 3000RPM does not make any impact on this you must have been on a banked oval and not a road course if you where able to keep the oil temp down and rpm's to 3000. The only thing to be wary of on ovals is oil supply once you pass 2g's.....A lot of import guys will over fill by 1 quart but I would imagine that GM thought of this already and designed the Corvette to have amble oil supply in a banked oval.In fact if I was driving this car in Germany as a daily driver I can assure you that it would see higher RPM's on the autobahn then you used at the track and it would see these almost daily.
People see buzz words like "track time" and all logic goes to the wind. Some one driving a Corvette in stock trim around an oval at 3000 RPM at around 150-180MPH is nothing to write home to mom about. On the other hand a guy with a little WRX that has been modified in almost every way that is turning 8000+ RPM's and down shifting and accelrating over and over again on a road course running way to rich most of the time when not at WOT that is running 26lbs of boost is a completely different type of impact on that "track day" as compared to the above milk run!
Something is not right but I would not blame it all on the oil just yet! Try another oil like M1 0W40 and try to get in a track day as well with or just take your shift points up to 3000 RPM on the street and you can simulate much the same thing with out breaking the speed limit too bad. I would also pop the valve cover off since it is so easy to do so and take a look for any abnormal wear!
Originally Posted By: JohnBrowning
He never turned over 3000 RPM's....
John please read and absorb before you post.
Quote:
2 track days with a lot of high RPM and quite a bit of high RPM in street driving. Never spun over 3k RPM with oil temps under 130F.
Quote:
Never spun over 3k RPM with oil temps under 130F.
Track time can be very brutal. I know you want to somehow downplay this, not sure why.
He never turned over 3000 RPM's....
John please read and absorb before you post.
Quote:
2 track days with a lot of high RPM and quite a bit of high RPM in street driving. Never spun over 3k RPM with oil temps under 130F.
Quote:
Never spun over 3k RPM with oil temps under 130F.
Track time can be very brutal. I know you want to somehow downplay this, not sure why.
Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
...I need to alleviate his worries about "dino" oil in a synth spec car, but the base oil in 15w-40 is clean. For shure, oem Mobil 1 5w-30 is very weak sauce....
Um, you don't have a car that spec's OEM spec'd synth, so maybe you should find some other thread to troll...I'm pretty sure M1 5W-30 would do just fine in your engines.
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
...I need to alleviate his worries about "dino" oil in a synth spec car, but the base oil in 15w-40 is clean. For shure, oem Mobil 1 5w-30 is very weak sauce....
Um, you don't have a car that spec's OEM spec'd synth, so maybe you should find some other thread to troll...I'm pretty sure M1 5W-30 would do just fine in your engines.
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