Block heaters and engine wear

[dgeesaman]

Forgive my newbie-diesel question.

I've read that cold starting a diesel without a block heater causes extra engine wear, especially with an aluminum engine block.

Has anyone ever observed a difference in engine wear by way of UOA, that shows this difference?

(If it were that important, I'm surprised that the manufacturer doesn't require a block heater for most of the country)

 

[StevieC]

I wouldn't use a Block-Heater, I would use an oil pan heater. This will also contribute enough heat to the engine and other parts to assit in cold-weather starting, but will give you the advantage of quicker oil circulation in my opinion.

It has been debated before though in other threads...

 

[Saab9-3]

I am currently using a blockand oil pan heater on my gas saab. I will have a uoa in a couple months too see if there is any difference in wear.

 

[MGregoir]

Block heaters are far more important with a diesel because they put heat into the block and cylinder head which aid in getting effecient combustion started.

Block heaters are good, pan heaters are good, both are better.

 

[D-Roc]

I'm in complete agreement with both pan and block heaters in a diesel....I do however, believe that most modern day diesels (even some older ones) are living a long life even without being plugged in.
If there is wear, when not using a block/pan heater, I don't really think it is that significant. But, that's just my :2cents:

 

[StevieC]

Didn't see that it was a diesel... Good Point

I would use both then!

 

[dgeesaman]

Originally Posted By: MGregoir
Block heaters are far more important with a diesel because they put heat into the block and cylinder head which aid in getting effecient combustion started.

Block heaters are good, pan heaters are good, both are better.


I agree with all of those points. However, I'm trying to assess how much the use (or lack of) heaters affects diesel engine wear and overall reliability. Everything I read says that somebody told them heaters are good and cold starts are bad. But no firsthand or quantitative info yet.

I'm making the diesel vs. big gasser decision on a 1-ton pickup with 6.0L. Since a block heater will be inconvenient for me, I'm trying to get a feel for whether this is the kind of thing I can do without. In my part of the country, our coldest winter months are low 0f to high 30f. I'll probably drive the truck about twice/week in those months, and I plan to run a 5w- or 0w- synthetic to help cope with it.

Dave

 

[demarpaint]

An old timer told me, if you want a warm cab get a block heater. If you want oil to flow and reliable starts get an oil pan heater. If you warm the oil from the bottom of the pan, heat rises and causes the internals of the engine to warm up too, that's according to Wolverine oil pan heater people. I wonder just how warm if you're parked in Alaska during a cold spell. I think the two used together is the best way to go.

Frank D

 

[bullwinkle]

If your dilemma involves a Ford 6.0L diesel, you'll be buying a LOT MORE trouble than just cold starts. If you have to buy a Ford diesel, stick with the 7.3, you'll be a lot better off. IMHO, with the difference in price BTW gas & diesel, unless you're hauling or towing heavy loads every day, gas is the way to go! The plus of a pan heater is that thinner oil flows faster & better-better cranking speed AND better lubrication, block heaters take an EXTREMELY long time to heat the oil, pan heaters are the superior solution.

 

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted By: dgeesaman
Originally Posted By: MGregoir
Block heaters are far more important with a diesel because they put heat into the block and cylinder head which aid in getting effecient combustion started.

Block heaters are good, pan heaters are good, both are better.


I agree with all of those points. However, I'm trying to assess how much the use (or lack of) heaters affects diesel engine wear and overall reliability. Everything I read says that somebody told them heaters are good and cold starts are bad. But no firsthand or quantitative info yet.

I'm making the diesel vs. big gasser decision on a 1-ton pickup with 6.0L. Since a block heater will be inconvenient for me, I'm trying to get a feel for whether this is the kind of thing I can do without. In my part of the country, our coldest winter months are low 0f to high 30f. I'll probably drive the truck about twice/week in those months, and I plan to run a 5w- or 0w- synthetic to help cope with it.

Dave


That's not very cold....honestly. Not trying to belittle you here, but myself (live in Alberta, just working in NB) and the other guy from Alberta know what cold is- I believe he owns a diesel as well. We need block heaters there, pan heaters are a great addition and and Espar/Webasto is the best (but very expensive).
If plugging in is inconvenient for you, and you will only be driving a couple of times per week next question is how much work and are you going to pull?
I drive a diesel because I wouldn't drive anything else, and I just darn well feel like it...but they are certainly not for everyone.
But once you drive it, you may buy one...be warned...happened to me! :no-no:

 

[dgeesaman]

Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
If your dilemma involves a Ford 6.0L diesel, you'll be buying a LOT MORE trouble than just cold starts. If you have to buy a Ford diesel, stick with the 7.3, you'll be a lot better off. IMHO, with the difference in price BTW gas & diesel, unless you're hauling or towing heavy loads every day, gas is the way to go! The plus of a pan heater is that thinner oil flows faster & better-better cranking speed AND better lubrication, block heaters take an EXTREMELY long time to heat the oil, pan heaters are the superior solution.


Since you're driving off-topic, I'll make this brief: yes, I will tow with this vehicle.

Dave

 

[dgeesaman]

Originally Posted By: D-Roc


That's not very cold....honestly. Not trying to belittle you here, but myself (live in Alberta, just working in NB) and the other guy from Alberta know what cold is- I believe he owns a diesel as well. We need block heaters there, pan heaters are a great addition and and Espar/Webasto is the best (but very expensive).


No offense taken. PA has winters, but not very cold winters. But we still have a few months that stay colder than Ford's block heating guideline of 40f.

It would seem that avoiding heavy work on a cold engine and using synthetic should be enough to keep any diesel working in my situation. I'll still get the block heater cord so I can use it when practical.

Originally Posted By: D-Roc

If plugging in is inconvenient for you, and you will only be driving a couple of times per week next question is how much work and are you going to pull?
I drive a diesel because I wouldn't drive anything else, and I just darn well feel like it...but they are certainly not for everyone.
But once you drive it, you may buy one...be warned...happened to me! :no-no:


We'll mostly log the miles on this truck to tow. We've averaged once/week. I also plan to take it to work now and then and make some hauling trips around town. Our aging gasser has 173k on the original engine and tranny, and this year we intend to tow on trips over 100mi and into more hilly regions. Breaking down is not fun, but it's serious [censored] when you have horses in tow.

We're currently in the habit of leaving the truck and trailer hitched and parked at the boarding barn. I think we'll just make it a habit to ensure the truck is well warmed in that situation before taking off.

I know the diesel cost is high, but the mpg difference is not small when towing. Right now I suspect diesel and gas are as different as they'll ever be, and it makes $/mile equal. I think in the future fuel prices will restore the diesel advantage. Since buying a used diesel is currently not much more than buying a gasser, I have nothing to lose and plenty to gain.

Dave

 

[D-Roc]

Well, if you're going to go diesel, you probably will be quite happy with it...they're very nice to drive these days with all the comforts. The power and torque numbers have really come up in the past couple of years as well...
Take care of it, and it will last you well.
Good luck.

 

[D-Roc]

I was going to say earlier in addition to my posts of excess wear without block heaters is that once thing I have always found uncanny is that there just doesn't seem to be any founded truth to the subject of more wear without (block heaters)
Granted, everyone has an opinion, but you still see many vehicles in places like Winnipeg, Edmonton, Saskatoon, Regina (chilly places) with high mileage. Were all those vehicles (and even in Northern States which can be just as cold) recipients of vigilant owners?
Now, I think you're going to see more wear with temps dropping to below -20 celsius, and staying down there for extended periods. But do we see people saying "my engine has worn significantly from cold starts?" or, "My engine blew due to cold?"
Sounds funny, I realize, but there doesn't seem to be lower mileage vehicles by any means in colder places....
Too many variable, I guess. We can probably only speculate and hypothesize.

I wonder the same thing as the OP and have for quite some time...

 

[bullwinkle]

Originally Posted By: dgeesaman
Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
If your dilemma involves a Ford 6.0L diesel, you'll be buying a LOT MORE trouble than just cold starts. If you have to buy a Ford diesel, stick with the 7.3, you'll be a lot better off. IMHO, with the difference in price BTW gas & diesel, unless you're hauling or towing heavy loads every day, gas is the way to go! The plus of a pan heater is that thinner oil flows faster & better-better cranking speed AND better lubrication, block heaters take an EXTREMELY long time to heat the oil, pan heaters are the superior solution.


Since you're driving off-topic, I'll make this brief: yes, I will tow with this vehicle.

Dave
Sorry, thought you hadn't bought it yet. You'll see what I mean if you buy the Ford/I.H./Powerstroke 6.0 and tow heavy with it-my work van mileage avgs around 16 w/9K in it, add the 3500 lb tandem cargo trailer, drive @ 60-65 into ANY headwind, the mileage PLUMMETS to around 8 or so. Here in SW OH, where it doesn't often get really cold, I've been running Valvoline Premium Blue Extreme 5W40 syn in the winter, really makes a big difference in starting below freezing, I only use the block heater below 0* F, no pan heater. Takes at least 3 hours to generate any real startup help.

 

[dgeesaman]

I haven't bought it yet.

In my reading/research, you're the first person who's described fuel economy that poor. Much of what I read suggests 15-20mpg unloaded and 10-15mpg heavily loaded. 8mpg is down with the 8.1L gasser, it's that bad.

Dave

 

[Dualie]

honestly NONE of my diesels Get plugged in. Now your going to think being in the S.F. bay area what would I know about cold temps?

Even when I travel out of state and the temp drops below 0 for extended periods of time 1 week+ I never plug it in. I have seen more trucks burn up from block heater fires than I have from cold starts.

Keep GOOD battery's, good glow plugs and winterized fuel with treatment on top of that and don't worry about it. AT MOST the only thing I ever did special on a cold start was to let the glow plugs cycle twice before starting.

Oh and test the freeze point of your coolant in the fall and you should be fine.

these trucks are engineered to start un assisted at temps below zero. While ford DID install a block heater in all the 6.0L diesels they didn't install cords on them. you had to buy the cord separately from the truck.

 

[Jim Allen]

Dualie: CAN you start diesels in near-zero or sub-zero temps? Sure. SHOULD you on a daily or regular basis? For most people, IMHO, no.

My opinion is that you want to get the engine up to operating temp as rapidly as possible. If you idle a diesel in cold or sub-zero temps, it takes an eternity to warm up because the engine is generating so little heat. On an older diesel, it will be slobbering all that time and fouling the oil. Newer electronic diesel are less inclined to do that, of course, but even they can dilute the oil. If you take off right away (my term is a "dynamic warmup") then most of the problems are alleviated... but that's not always possible.

My contention is that the block heater eliminates that enforced wait and idle period needed to generate a little heat for defrosting, to get the oil flowing, etc. With a block heater on for a coupla hours, its warm enough so you can fire up the def., clear the windows rapidly, drive away and get the engine up to operating temp very quickly. The side benefit to block heaters, on any engine that operates in a winter climate is a reduction in emissions and better fuel economy because the engine gets up to an efficient and economical operating temp much faster.

OLD TECH ANECDOTES: I have three old tech diesels in my stable. One will start in as cold a temp as 15 below... surprisingly. Another has started in as cold as about 5 above, but just barely. Another WILL NOT start at temps below 30F unless plugged in. I had an older GM that was always a bear to start below freezing, but I lived at 5,000 feet which complicated things. On a freezing overnight campout at 10K feet one winter, it WOULD NOT start. I ended up having to disable the glow system and use my emergency ether on the last gasp of the batteries.

 

[STG]

I use Delvac 1 5w-40 in my 2005 Powerstroke and experience zero problems with cold starts down to -24F (after eight hours in that temperature). There have been other 6.0s with 10w-30 or 15w-40 oil parked next to mine and started at the same time - not a pretty sight.

A heater is fine at home. I don't use mine in the heated garage. A block heater won't help you if you don't have a power plug handy.

Anyone operating a diesel in cold temperatures needs to run a 5w-40 synthetic (that grade has been approved by Ford for all Powerstrokes) and must hook up the Battery Charge Protect Circuit to an upfitter switch. a 6.0 won't get or stay warm at normal idle. The BCP will kick idle up to 1,200RPM and more if the batteries need charging.

Whenever the truck is at home, I keep it plugged in to a Battery Tender.

 

[Saab9-3]

If you put the oil pan heater on a timer you will not have afire.