Rings bad?

[vacuum_6]

I installed a new high performance 109 block in my 87 Buick Turbo T. I have about 750 miles on it and it’s used about ½ quart in 750 miles, still have not beat on it. Compression test gave me 168-175 on all 6 cylinders, all plugs were a little oil fouled, and oil in intake. I plugged the PCV which eliminated the oil in intake but its still using oil. If it’s the rings is there an additive I can add to help minimize the oil consumption and or seat the rings better?

 

[Dyoel182]

When you say new do you mean it was broken in by someone else or was supposed to be broken in by you?

 

[vacuum_6]

I did the break in. I kept the RPMs varying for the first 200 miles after that drove it normal less beating on it.

 

[Quest]

@ 750miles, pretty much all kinds of rings, incl. chrome rings, should have seated in nicely. If, by the end of 750+miles and you are still burning oil then to me that sounds like a bad engine job to begin with.

If it's a new engine block then it's the assembler's fault. If it's a rebuilt/reman engine block then I would say it's still the builder/assembler's fault. Typical oil consumption issue have to do with improper honing/glaze-breaking process, wrongfully installed rings (wrong orientation of the ring sets can only introduce serious blowby, not to the point of serious oil consumption) or it could have had something to do with badly prepared heads (valve guides worn out of spec, worn/damaged valve stem seals, etc.)

Too much variables here ...

BTW: don't count on using thicker oil or oil additives to curb the oil burning issue for there's nothing that can keep it under control (at this rate of consumption)

 

[Pablo]

Well, IMHO, easy break-in is not the thing. You aren't going to break anything by getting on it. Beat on it. Hard! The worst thing is easy driving and glazed cylinders.

Drive it hard for 1000 miles or so. If the consumption doesn't go down, then tell the builder he screwed up (as listed above). If he didn't give you decent break-in instructions, then he screwed up.

 

[vacuum_6]

Ok I'll change the oil this spring and beat it hard!!!!! If walls are glazed, is there an additive that helps with glazing? Some type of moly additive or I heard MMO?!?

 

[BuickGN]

Nice to see another TR person. I used to have 5 109 blocks at one time and sold them for $50 a piece. Same with the turbo cranks. I'm regretting that one.

Definately don't break it in easy. I break the cam in, check for leaks, change the oil, and drive it normally. I don't go to full race trim for a thousand or so miles but a few easy 15psi pulls in the first 100 miles is probably good for it.

What type of pistons and rings is it using? You plugged the PCV, do you still have the breather going from the valvecover to turbo inlet? Is the turbo itself new? I've almost replaced a motor before due to a bad turbo. With the breather to the turbo blocked off you should have no oil at all in the intercooler and plumbing. If you do, it might be time to look at the turbo.

 

[pev223]

I don't believe your rings are the problem at all. It has been my experience that bad valve guides and or seals usually cause the oil fouling you are experiencing. The fact that you are sucking up oil through the pcv also makes the valve guides or seals much more likely.
You mentioned a new block, were the heads included? If they are new heads I suspect the valve seals were not properly installed.

 

[BuickGN]

Originally Posted By: pev223
I don't believe your rings are the problem at all. It has been my experience that bad valve guides and or seals usually cause the oil fouling you are experiencing. The fact that you are sucking up oil through the pcv also makes the valve guides or seals much more likely.
You mentioned a new block, were the heads included? If they are new heads I suspect the valve seals were not properly installed.



For what it's worth the Turbo Buicks typically don't run seals on the exhaust valves with the stock iron heads.

If they happen to be the GN1 heads, anything is possible. I've seen those straight from the factory with loose valve guides that you could actually wiggle with your finger.

 

[Chris_H]

not too long ago i rebuilt the engine in my toyota and it took like 6000kms for it to stop its oil burning but now its good (not going through anyting)

 

[Merkava_4]

Who's the builder of this engine?

 

[vacuum_6]

Originally Posted By: BuickGN
What type of pistons and rings is it using? You plugged the PCV, do you still have the breather going from the valvecover to turbo inlet? Is the turbo itself new? I've almost replaced a motor before due to a bad turbo. With the breather to the turbo blocked off you should have no oil at all in the intercooler and plumbing. If you do, it might be time to look at the turbo.


The motor is a roller. Diamond pistons & rings dont know. Breathers on both VC with no breather to inlet. The turbo is not new and the seal just went on it (leaking on the exhaust side not compressor side). GN1 heads.

 

[vacuum_6]

Again if walls are glazed, is there an additive that helps with glazing? Maybe a moly additive or MMO?!?

 

[Pablo]

Quote:
The turbo is not new and the seal just went on it...


You just found the source of oil loss.

 

[vacuum_6]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
Quote:
The turbo is not new and the seal just went on it...


You just found the source of oil loss.


Yes, its a oil loss but not losing 1/2 qt thru the turbo.

 

[BuickGN]

I'd say the PCV was the source of the oil fouled plugs which you fixed. 1/2 quart over 750 miles could EASILY be turbo. It would be little enough that you might not see any smoke. Get it good and hot and I bet you start seeing smoke.

You didn't cheap out on the pistons so I'm sure the rings are high quality. It's the GN1s that worry me. My normal procedure when I get a new set of those heads is to let my head guy tear them down and reassemble. They QC is that bad on them or at least it was as of two years ago. It's not fun when you just dropped 2K on the heads and have to pay another $250 for quality assurance. Still, 1/2 quart would be a lot of oil getting past the valve seals.

Can't help you on an additive for glazed rings but I'm sure someone on here can. I would highly suggest replacing the turbo and going from there.

 

[vacuum_6]

Since day one the engine used oil. The engine did not start smoking until after the 2nd oil change (@ 500 miles and less when the engine was first fired up) . After the 2nd oil change I plugged the PCV and started looking for the smoking source. Then I dropped the DP and started the car after 30 min of reving oil seeped from the ID on the exhaust side of turbo. Every once in a while the car will fog. Also I dropped the DS header to see if the exhaust head ports were wet. All three were found to be dry but black and sooty.

 

[mechtech2]

A plugged PCV system can cause oil use, because the rings won't be able to seal properly due to pressure in the crankcase.
Why in the world did you disconnect that valuable and necessary system?

 

[BuickGN]

Originally Posted By: mechtech2
A plugged PCV system can cause oil use, because the rings won't be able to seal properly due to pressure in the crankcase.
Why in the world did you disconnect that valuable and necessary system?


I don't run one on my GN either. A lot of us run in excess of 25psi boost and there's a good bit of crankcase pressure that leads to oil in the intake through the valve. Besides, the valve can fail and let boost into the crankcase. It's assumed that he's running a small valvecover breather behind the turbo on the passenger side and a regular one on the drivers side but I guess I should've asked.

 

[vacuum_6]

Originally Posted By: mechtech2
A plugged PCV system can cause oil use, because the rings won't be able to seal properly due to pressure in the crankcase.
Why in the world did you disconnect that valuable and necessary system?


Most guys with excessive blow-by use a catch can. I temporary plugged mine to see if the oil in the intake goes away and it did. I'm going to run the PCV via the valve covers with an in-line check valve. Currently use one breather per VC.