ZDDP vs. the rest

[vinu_neuro]

How do more recent anti-wear additives like Titanium compare against ZDDP? In racing oils you still see high concentrations of ZDDP, is this because it's still the best in anti-wear performance or because it's cheaper?

In North America there is a lack of 20 and 30wt shelf oils with higher levels (>=1000ppm) of phosphorous. This presents a problem for cars with highly loaded valvetrain that must also be used in low temperatures and see very short-trips. I'm wondering if perhaps the oils like Castrol and Kendall with Ti might be suitable.

 

[addyguy]

QS now makes 'Defy' oil in 5W-20, 5w30 and 10w30....they claim it has '50%' more ZN than SM/SN spec oils, which should means it should have 1100-1200ppm Zn/Ph.

 

[Loobed]

Someone posted a pdf report on the GF-5 oil specifications. It said that Moly was the best at reducing friction, so it would be a safe bet that it is also the best at reducing wear. I think ZDDP plates or bonds to the metal while moly just lays on top of the metal.

 

[Dupree]

now this is good discussion going on here

 

[vinu_neuro]

Originally Posted By: addyguy
QS now makes 'Defy' oil in 5W-20, 5w30 and 10w30....they claim it has '50%' more ZN than SM/SN spec oils, which should means it should have 1100-1200ppm Zn/Ph.


This sounds interesting, but I can't find it on the QS site?

 

[vinu_neuro]

Called Shell. They said Defy is due in May, but a lot of Walmart stores have mistakenly already started shelving it so it is out in the wild.

Apparently they're pretty excited about this oil at SOPUS and so am I. This is basically a direct competitor to Mobil 1 High Mileage oils. 20 and 30wt, SL level phosphorous, seal conditioners. I just hope they're less viscous than Mobil 1 High Mileage oils. Mobil 1 High Mileage seems good, but even the 5w30 is viscous enough with a low enough VI that Mobil 1 0W-40 makes better sense.

 

[MolaKule]

Titanium, Moly and antimony are simply secondary AW additives for ZDDP reductions.

My recommendation is to try the various newer oils with at least three fills to see how it reacts with your engine metallurgy.

Right now, the RLI bio-mix engine oils with the antimony secondary's are showing real good wear results.

 

[andyd]

20 and 30 ? Does this mean 20w50 or just 5w20?

 

[jeepman3071]

Originally Posted By: andyd
20 and 30 ? Does this mean 20w50 or just 5w20?


They had 5w20, 5w30, and 10w30 QS Defy at my local Walmart.

 

[morris]

i use http://www.zddplus.com : or: http://www.redlineoil.com

 

[tribocessive]

duly noted; this is the final answer; thank you for cutting to the chase; i have no further questions on bitog.

 

[vo_marz]

I had the redline breakin backfire on me on my Red Line 5W40 oil while using my bike as a commuter.

Too much of a good thing and it screws up the balance.

The price i paid was -15% oil lifetime VS stock 5W40 redline

 

[skyship]

Originally Posted By: Loobed


Someone posted a pdf report on the GF-5 oil specifications. It said that Moly was the best at reducing friction, so it would be a safe bet that it is also the best at reducing wear. I think ZDDP plates or bonds to the metal while moly just lays on top of the metal.


The odd thing is that many of the best fully synthetic (As defined in Germany, so G4 or 5) don't contain Moly, they all contain the maximum amount of Zinc. Even Liqui Moly's expensive High Tech 5w40 Synthoil doesn't contain Moly.
Zinc based anti wear additive must be good, because I have never seen a top quality oil with none included and the more expensive oils always have the maximum amount permitted by the regs.

 

[friendly_jacek]

Originally Posted By: skyship
Originally Posted By: Loobed


Someone posted a pdf report on the GF-5 oil specifications. It said that Moly was the best at reducing friction, so it would be a safe bet that it is also the best at reducing wear. I think ZDDP plates or bonds to the metal while moly just lays on top of the metal.


The odd thing is that many of the best fully synthetic (As defined in Germany, so G4 or 5) don't contain Moly, they all contain the maximum amount of Zinc. Even Liqui Moly's expensive High Tech 5w40 Synthoil doesn't contain Moly.
Zinc based anti wear additive must be good, because I have never seen a top quality oil with none included and the more expensive oils always have the maximum amount permitted by the regs.


It's not odd. Oils in Europe tend to be heavier and rely more on hydrodynamic lubrication and Moly does squat with that. Thinner oils in US rely more on boundary lubrication and moly/boron decrease friction that would otherwise increase with ZDDP alone.

 

[Ducked]

Thanks. If I believed that, I'd have a good reason supporting my bias against thin (American?) oil. But I don't.

My understanding is/was that all oils normally rely on hydrodynamic lubrication, and that, (except for valve gear), boundary lubrication was a last line of defence for startup and when things have gone badly wrong.

Can't see why there'd be a "cultural" difference, (unless the EPA counts as "culture") and, if anything, I'd suppose there are probably a higher proportion of flat-tappetted muscle cars in the US which would indicate higher levels of zinc.