Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: moribundman
Tell me how you really feel about "Fachidioten" (=specialized idiots). What do you call them? Cranks and freaks?
Just because someone possesses well-rounded and varied knowledge doesn't mean he can't also exceed in one particular field. On the contrary, I know quite a few people who, while they are highly specialized and competent in one field, lack any kind of knowledge outside their field. That's just sad.
Sorry, you misunderstood my meaning.
Let's make an example instead. My grandfather was an electrical engineer who went to Columbia - a decent Ivy League school. I am a chemical engineer who went to Delaware - top ten in the nation in ChE. We both took three calc classes, he during the 40's, me during the late 90's/early 00's. He did everything by hand and by sliderule, etc., I did a lot by calculator, and with mathematical computational tools such as Maple. We compared what we learned in our three basic calc classes. The difference of what was done was pretty significant, especially when getting into calc II and III. Now, will I ever use much of what was done in Calc III? Likely not. But I have a better understanding of many of the more advanced topics, as an undergraduate, than he ever did. Things that he would have had to go for a PhD in math to learn, which I got _some_ treatment of in an undergraduate class, because of the tools available to make the learning faster.
Another example, my uncle and I. He is a ChE thirty years my former. We both had a similar senior design project to perform, designing a reactor/separator chemical plant system with all of the resultant kinetics, heat transfer, etc. The difference? I had computational tools available that allowed us to perform much more detailed, more intricate analysis and design, because some of the stuff was performed for me. Did I not understand what it was calculating? no. I had learned to do all of the stuff by hand to some extent (lilely not as well as my uncle, though), but the ability to depend upon computers made my ability to do more and experience more was critical.
Same in thermodynamics. many of the advanced equations of state and complex calculations to determine phase equilibria and other similar things were treated in my undergraqduate class because we had the ability to use mathcad and iterate on solutions and do advanced math quickly, as opposed to having to slowly calculate it all by hand and do all of the calculus longhand. Sure gave me a better treatment of this stuff than my uncle had - he didnt get the full phase equilibria treatment until his MS ChE class.
So again, computers allow you to learn more information and treat more important topics in a cirricula than one could if it was all done solely by hand in the old fashioned way. Does that make me smarter, more knowledgable, moire capable than my uncle or grandfather? Likely not except in the capability area because for calculational-based engineering, I can fire off advanced calculations at a much higher rate than they ever could at my age.
So again, my point that they had much more detailed treatment of fewer topics in the cirricula, whereas I had treatment of more topics, but with more comes less time to delve into the deep details of the more basic stuff. So it is an issue of the fact that I learned more breadth via the enabling technology, and likely as a result learned some of it not quite as well... whereas they learned some of the more basic concepts to a much higher level of detail, but never got as far in knowing the full picture/story, unless they needed to use it at work.
Is one wrong/right? one certainly provided more treatment and experience of the basics, while one certainly gave more treatment of the more advanced topics which ultimately, in my field, are invaluable. I can see from my experiences at work, and my promotion schedule, that I am more capable than the engineers in the same fields that are here but much older. Is it because Im smarter than them? More specialized? No, it is because I am able to know the basic information, look up and learn what I dont know as well, and use the tools that infinitely enhance my productivity. It is very apparent.
So I am not talking about a specialized idiot. I am not talking about non-well rounded individuals (my original point, in fact, was merely discussing what computers do to the specific learning of an engineering cirricula, with respect to what you learn, to what extent you learn, and how you learn it). I think you would be hard pressed to find people more specialized and knowledgable, yet more well-rounded, well read, and talented in outside areas than my close friends that I graduated with (and one of whom I work with now).
Its not a matter of intelligence or specialization. It is a matter of treatment of cirricula and items that help to solve more complex and challenging problems, faster and easier, while still understanding the fundamental reasons why everything happens as it does. Many cannot comprehend it, even if they did go through some fancy schooling. As I said before, there is always a curve, always was a curve, and always will be a curve.
JMH
Eh... thanks, or rather yikes, I guess. My reply to your post was a mere comment -- and I posed a question, which you didn't answer.
