"You Too Can Become A Engineer"

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Al

Al

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Time was when a degree was worth something. Worth of a HS education ended about 25 years ago due to lowered standards. College degrees same. Go 2 nights a week and obtain a degree in a 1.5 years.

And now engineering. When I went you worked your everliving a55 off and not a lot of folks made the grtade. I shoulda' been born 40 years later than I was. Oh well, then I
wouldn't be retired.

"There isn't that harsh competition that excludes some people," Akasaka said." Everyone gets a trophy"
smirk.gif


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071103/ap_on_re_us/engineering_and_liberal_arts
 
It probably is at some schools, I'm transfering to a Engineering school next fall. Taking all the classes I can at a community college to save money. We'll the community college is selective about the scores needed to get into the engineering program, basically people within the top 15%. So it's still very difficult at most engineering schools; just seems a lot are going down hill though.
 
I had a graduate start with me two years ago. I was working on fasteners that are preloaded to 0.15% strain.

He looked at me blank, and asked what strain was.

I asked him about Hookes' Law, and he told me he'd check his books and tell me tomorrow.

When we started on thermodynamics and chemistry, I realised that Stress and Strain (only used 2 dozen times a day through a four year course) were only the tip of his lack of knowledge.

And he's not the only one...that's the norm these days (yes there are some jewels, and they really stand out)
 
I work for engineers. They earned their degrees, but I've heard them complaining about some of the people they have to interact with don't deserve their licenses.
 
Interesting topic.

There are Systems Engineers, Mechanical Engineers (ME), Industrial Engineers (IE), Electronic/Electrical Engineers(EE, Softare Engineers, Computer Engineers, Aerospace Engineers (AE), etc.

I have worked in Aerospace/Systems Engineering for most of my career and find many new engineers are weak in stress and fatigue and thermodynamics, and basic circuits analysis and design.

What I find is that most engineers do not have a grounding in basic physics. When I taught physics, most of the class was engineers of one flavor or another and stated that until they took my class, they didn't really know electronics, mechanics, or thermodynamics, even though they had those classes in their respective discipline.

I have always fought for engineering physics classes as a prereq to the later classes, and I think E is what is needed now.
 
"I have always fought for engineering physics classes as a prereq to the later classes, and I think E is what is needed now. " should have said,

"I have always fought for engineering physics classes as a prereq to the later classes, and I think Engineering Physics is what is needed now."

I think engineering and the sciences can only become more interesting. There is the the Nanotechnology area which is blooming and very interesting.

For those interested in Tribology and lubricants, start out with an AE or ME and then take Masters courses in Tribology and chemistry.

One of the suggestions I give to engineering students and those who currently have a ----, is take other courses in areas outside your major area of study in ordeer to broaden your scope of knowledge, and never turn down an assignment to do something new.

Learning is a life-long endeavor.
 
Quote:

"There isn't that harsh competition that excludes some people," Akasaka said."

Click to expand...


That could mean that they're lowering standards, but it could also just mean they're just changing the learning environment. I hope it doesn't mean they're lowering standards!

When I was in engineering, they must have failed about half the students in first year and another 25 to 50 percent of the remaining ones in the second year. Then we had the same 80 or so people in our class for third and fourth year. It was pretty obvious that the ones who failed out weren't suitable for engineering, even though they probably all had above a 90% average in high school.
 
college degrees are just "checking a box" in the big scheme. Universities are providing subpar degrees (like the online MBA, or the 'get your degree in 1.5 years", or the "your real world experience will equate to credits"), as a means of obtaining revenue, and little else. Unfortunately this is the case for some engineering (and likely legal and medical schools too).

I went to a top 10 chemical engineering school. We lost over 2/3 of our class in the first two years. People couldnt take it, and they didnt care. They only let in about 100 students freshman year, and if you didnt start on track then, you couldnt transfer in, without staying for another 4 years to get the dedicated classwork done.

Go to a real engineering school, and you have to pull your weight, or else too bad. I dont really care if other schools are making inept engineers, it makes my degrees worth more.

JMH
 
I go to a state "engineering school" attending their college of business majoring in Industrial Technology. Their engineering dept is tough, it's a minimum 5 years to get your ---- as a ME. I also know from experience (not just school propaganda) that their students are in demand because they actually know something when they graduate.
I even have to take engineering classes as part of my business degree.
 
Syndicated columnist Paul Craig Roberts, who was on the board of The Wall Street Journal and served in the Reagan administration, predicted the demise of engineering as a profession in the US in June 2006:

Roberts column

If you thought the Yahoo! link about engineering courses geared toward liberal arts majors was bad enough, wait till you see what's being discussed now. This will make Roberts's prediction come true:

"The coming academic title wave"
by Allison Kasic, Townhall.com, 31 October 2007

An excerpt:

"If the October 17th House hearing is any indication, a full-scale assault on the academy is coming. The target: STEM (science, technology, engineering, and mathematics) fields. The charge: wide scale discrimination against women.

"Witnesses, Congressmen, and a crowd of over 100 people gathered last Wednesday on Capitol Hill for a hearing on women in academic science and engineering. No Committee Member or panelist challenged the presumption behind the hearing—that discrimination is the primary cause of women’s underrepresentation among science and engineering academics—they turned right to consideration of government-mandated solutions to the perceived problem.

"Several panelists, including former Secretary of Health and Human Services Donna Shalala, spoke of the need for massive 'institutional transformation.' Chairman Brian Baird (D-WA) asked what sort of 'hammer' the government could use to enforce this transformation. A popular answer was Title IX.

"Normally associated with gender equity in athletics, Title IX (and the strict gender quotas that come along with it) could also be used to increase female participation in STEM fields. Rep. Vernon Ehlers (R-MI), the ranking Republican on the subcommittee, went so far as to joke that the sciences should be designated as a sport. This would have two advantages: 'NCAA rules would apply' and the sciences would 'share in the football revenues.'

"Shalala complained that, as a university president, she hears from a variety of government agencies and organizations about gender equity in sports, but rarely hears anything about gender equity in science. She went on to stress the need for an organization similar to the NCAA to hold schools accountable for Title IX enforcement. ..."

--------------------

First engineering will be dumbed down, and then strict quotas by gender will follow or universities will pay a price. All of this will happen while the STEM fields are stagnating, imploding (with only a limited number of exceptions), and reducing pay and numbers of Americans working here—thanks to outsourcing, offshoring, importing foreigners on H-1B and L1 visas, and the general move of production overseas. If you don't produce anything much, you don't need large numbers of STEM personnel. They are needed where the production is: overseas.

Gee, I'm glad I didn't complete my degree in mechanical engineering now. STEM majors are already proving to be a dime a dozen in a US economy now completing a transition to service jobs, and now such degrees will become totally meaningless to boot once certain people have their way. And they will.
 
only except that a decent, classically trained engineer, who went through training in one of the harder disciplines, will excel in capability over any liberal arts or other majors in more or less any other fields.

I hate to sound elitist, but most college graduates are idiots, and their coursework was easy, compared to what we went through. I have multiple friends who have gone into oither unrelated sectors, hired because of their significantly superior training, and ability to learn just about anything, and have cleaned up. THis includes folks going into everything from advanced financial analysis, to law, to medicine. Not cheap fields...

Train right and you can outsmart and outperform the average idiot in fields you arent even trained in.

JMH
 
Good points made by many.

A lot can be said for true engineering internships. I worked with an intern all summer. He was nervous as heck his first day, his last day he had some real confidence and he "knew what he didn't know" with a couple years of school left he has some direction. We had a good helper. Win-win.

I can't speak for all west coast schools, but CA-OR-WA state engineering schools are not tiddlywinks.
 
As a current undergraduate student who is planning to major in a non-engineering field, I have a lot of respect for engineers and the rigor of their coursework. I have a lot of interest in engineering and find it very fascinating, but I personally think I lack the aptitude for it. Perhaps in my next life, I'll study engineering.
 
*taking Notes* What physic's class's would you specifically recommend molakule ? My schedule dictates that I take Advanced university physics 1,2; next year. Is this what you're referring to ?
 
I was working on an engine prototype project and spent some time working with a German firm that was doing some of the work. Three engineers applied for one opening, a mechanical engineering position. All had fine resumes and cv's that any young engineer would be proud of. What did the director of engineering do for a selection process. He gave them a task to complete. Take this chunk of steel (about 4" square - I don't do metric much) and make a 1"x1"x1" cube, no power tools. Make it as smooth as you can, make the corners as sharp as possible. Go out in to the shop in the area set aside and start. Take as much time as you need, up to a week. I watched the progress. One quit, one produced a reasonable cube and the third applicant nailed it, produced a beautiful cube and got the job. I was impressed with how effective this test was because the successful applicant turned out to be a very good choice and over the next year became a project leader.
 
I thought that engineering degrees were still one of the toughest to get.
Certainly harder than a degree in politically correct dance techniques!
 
Try being a math majors taking 2 300 level math classes then taking a 300 bus class. What a difference that was. I struggled through my math class, paid attention the whole time and if I missed a day I was screwed. In the 300 level bus class I went in sat on my laptop surfed the web a bit, and didn't really pay any attention. Did my homework and that is about it. Maybe spent 10 hours out of class for the whole semester compared to the 5 to 6 hours a week that I easily put in as a base for my math classes.

When it came to test times in the bus class I ended up scoring second best on the tests. The person that beat me was the other math major in the class that was retaking it. Now he wasn't retaking it becuase he failed it but becuase 3/4 the way through the last semester the bus department decided that he had to many overrides and would be struggling in the class to much. At this point I should mention that he had the third highest grade in the class. Again only being beat by the other math majors in the class.

Really it is discouraging that I have to work so hard for my major. That is so time intensive that I can't take more than 14 to 15 credits a semester max. While other majors my school offers are so much easier and less time intensive to the point that taking 18 credits isn't a huge deal.
 
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