You can get by w/ 4WD w/o proper snow tires?

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Originally Posted By: D189379
Originally Posted By: Quest
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/video/us-22424932/caught-on-tape-relentless-winter-pileup-23898070.html

Watch those SssYouVees and/or 4WD/AWD w/o proper winter tires slip sliding away....and you'll soon understand why it's becoming more important than ever to have proper winter/snow tires during winter season.

For your own safety's sake, get some winter tires and drive safely.

Q.


Winter tires aren't made out of some sort of magic ice glue. They still suck on ice, and wouldn't have saved one person on that hill.


Mildly disagree. Winter tires, espectially Blizzaks have a porous compound that wick up the thin surface film of water caused by the pressure of the tire bearing down on the ice. The compound really does help, but no, it doesn't make the traction as good as if you were driving on a dry road. In the case of the iced-over hill in the video, I probably would have been in trouble, too. That was a nightmare situation. Part of successful winter driving is to know when to stay home. I'll drive with confidence in snow up to 4" deep, but if there's a coating of pure ice out there, I'm staying home.
 
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Originally Posted By: D189379
Originally Posted By: Quest
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/video/us-22424932/caught-on-tape-relentless-winter-pileup-23898070.html

Watch those SssYouVees and/or 4WD/AWD w/o proper winter tires slip sliding away....and you'll soon understand why it's becoming more important than ever to have proper winter/snow tires during winter season.

For your own safety's sake, get some winter tires and drive safely.

Q.


Winter tires aren't made out of some sort of magic ice glue. They still suck on ice, and wouldn't have saved one person on that hill.


Mildly disagree. Winter tires, espectially Blizzaks have a porous compound that wick up the thin surface film of water caused by the pressure of the tire bearing down on the ice. The compound really does help, but no, it doesn't make the traction as good as if you were driving on a dry road. In the case of the iced-over hill in the video, I probably would have been in trouble, too. That was a nightmare situation. Part of successful winter driving is to know when to stay home. I'll drive with confidence in snow up to 4" deep, but if there's a coating of pure ice out there, I'm staying home.


Agreed.
thumbsup2.gif
 
You do not "need" winter specific tires. That is complete hogwash. A decent quality all season tire on a 4WD or AWD vehicle will handle most anything old man winter throws at you on the road. Winter tires are beneficial to 2WD vehicles and make sense for them but they are a waste of $$$ IMO on 4WD and AWD unless you live in the backwoods and only drive unplowed logging roads or something.

The conditions in that video are EXTREME. A steep hill covered in glare ice. A tank would have slid down that hill. Winter tires and AT tires can be defeated by ice as easy as AS tires. People would have gone sledding there regardless of what tires they had on. I went down a hill like that in an ice storm in my 2005 4WD Silverado that had AT tires on( good ones too = Revos ). If those AT's couldn't stop me winter tires sure wouldn't. Chains would be needed.

I am not investing in a second set of rims and tires just for winter driving when I have absolutely NO problems with the same AS tires I run during the non winter months. I even launch my boat on snow and ice covered ramps well into February each year. AS tires, if a quality one, do fine.

I have run Firestone Destination LE AS tires now on my last 3 vehicles. A 2007 Silverado 4WD, a 2008 Equinox AWD, and now my 2008 Ram 4WD. They have handled our NH winters just fine.
 
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I agree. I have Nokian WR on my Isuzu. NOT once did I wish for winter or studded tires. With Torque-On-Demand turned on, I have plowed thru two foot deep heavy wet snow with those tires.
In 4 Low I drove up a steep ice-covered driveway.
Very good all-seasons and a smart 4WD system are all I need.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
I'm just running Michelin LTX M/S's.

They are good tires. In all conditions.


Had those on my 2003 and 2004 4WD Rams and they did great in the winter weather. Very good foul weather AS tires. No idea of the new LTX M+S2's are but those original M+S tires did very well in bad weather.
 
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
I'm just running Michelin LTX M/S's.

They are good tires. In all conditions.


Had those on my 2003 and 2004 4WD Rams and they did great in the winter weather. Very good foul weather AS tires. No idea of the new LTX M+S2's are but those original M+S tires did very well in bad weather.


Dad has the M/S2's and he's telling me they are as good, if not better believe it or not.
 
Are Snows absolutely necessary on a 4wd? No. Do they make driving easier and safer? No doubt in my mind yes! I put a set of snows on my '97 Explorer (Hankook Winter I-Pike W409's - not studded (studs are illegal in MN)). The increase in snow traction and ice is noticeable, and say that with two other 4x4's that have All-Terrain tires (Bridgestone Dueler Revo on the F150 and D695 on the Jeep Cherokee). Both the Jeep and F150 are tanks in the snow, but the snow tires turned the Explorer from my least favorite in the snow to the hands down favorite in all bu the deepest of snow when the F150 will get the call. I will note that the All season tires that I had on the explorer were praised by others as good snow tires in this same post. My experiece was different (and that's OK). Our fleet will no longer mount them either, but the AT tire in the same series works very well.

I too was brought up in the good all season or all terrain tires are fine mentality, and generally, I still agree. For the extra peace of mind though, I've been converted and dedicated snows are the way to go for anyone who regularly has to deal with snowy and icy roads.
 
I haven't bought snow tires for 25 yrs. I had to buy new tires recently for my BMWs 195 70 14s. I bought Bridgestone Insignia 200s. 3 season with silica impregnated tread. With a LSD, and some common sense, I do ok. I also carry a flat steel shovel.
T'other day, I passed Jeep Rubicon that had run off the road. I was in an E 150 van.
 
Originally Posted By: Quest
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/video/us-22424932/caught-on-tape-relentless-winter-pileup-23898070.html

Watch those SssYouVees and/or 4WD/AWD w/o proper winter tires slip sliding away....and you'll soon understand why it's becoming more important than ever to have proper winter/snow tires during winter season.

For your own safety's sake, get some winter tires and drive safely.

Q.


That's stupid, has nothing to do with tires.

Snow tires only get traction in the snow. In ice they are all worthless.
 
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
We had a terrible ice/snow storm about 3 weeks ago and while driving home from work I saw a blinged out Tahoe stuck ON A FLAT ROAD with probably 24 inch wheels and bald summer tires. The road crown just sucked it right into the curb and it was stuck, all four nice chromed out wheels sittin and spinnin. I laughed.


That would be funny to see!
 
Ive found that it depends. My wife's old integra, FWD and horrible in the snow with AS. My BMW 318i? Horrible in the snow with AS. My saab does perfect in the snow and bad weather with AS tires. Ditto for the wife's VW.

I still use snows on my saab (our snow/skiing/travel in bad weather car) because no matter how good ATs perform, a little bit extra control gives you the ability to evade the other idiots.

Unfortunately people with snows often get a false sense of security and think they can drive how they want because of their tires apparent grip. Snow tires dont mean you can drive faster/harder in bad conditions.
 
once years ago i was sliding down a hill like the one in the video; brakes locked up, sliding towards an intersection. since the wheels were locked up and I already had the clutch pushed in, I put it in reverse, let the clutch out and stopped DEAD right in the middle of the hill. the reverse was enough traction to stop my forward momentum.
it doesn't occur to people in this slow motion sliding situations that pressing on the brakes harder isn't going to do anything since your wheels are already locked up.
they need to teach how to drive in bad conditions when you get your license.
 
Originally Posted By: mpvue
once years ago i was sliding down a hill like the one in the video; brakes locked up, sliding towards an intersection. since the wheels were locked up and I already had the clutch pushed in, I put it in reverse, let the clutch out and stopped DEAD right in the middle of the hill. the reverse was enough traction to stop my forward momentum.
it doesn't occur to people in this slow motion sliding situations that pressing on the brakes harder isn't going to do anything since your wheels are already locked up.
they need to teach how to drive in bad conditions when you get your license.

Um, not to be too insulting, but believing that shifting into reverse stopped your car better than your brakes, sounds almost as silly as the quote in your signature...
Reverse doesn't create traction in any car I've ever driven, usually its the tires.
 
Somebody in a Jeep with all-seasons slid on 3" of wind-blown snow today. The space it slid to happened to be 3 feet away from the front bumper of my Buick, sitting at a red light. They were clearly going too fast for conditions and thought that being in a Jeep was all they needed to do for winter. It got me saying some stuff seeing it sliding closer to me.

Both cars have snow tires. With long daily drives for our jobs (moving isn't a feasible option), we need to get through no matter what. It's worth it for us to ensure we can make it through.

Ground clearance is an issue with the Fit, where my jack can just barely slide under. It's not an issue with the Buick, which is high enough for me to crawl under. So far, we've seen no need for an SUV to get around with in the snow.
 
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Originally Posted By: mpvue
once years ago i was sliding down a hill like the one in the video; brakes locked up, sliding towards an intersection. since the wheels were locked up and I already had the clutch pushed in, I put it in reverse, let the clutch out and stopped DEAD right in the middle of the hill. the reverse was enough traction to stop my forward momentum.
it doesn't occur to people in this slow motion sliding situations that pressing on the brakes harder isn't going to do anything since your wheels are already locked up.
they need to teach how to drive in bad conditions when you get your license.

Um, not to be too insulting, but believing that shifting into reverse stopped your car better than your brakes, sounds almost as silly as the quote in your signature...
Reverse doesn't create traction in any car I've ever driven, usually its the tires.

well, I DID it, I'm just telling my experience. I was sliding down a hill, wheels locked up, and by suddenly turning the wheels in the opposite direction of what I was going, it halted my forward momentum.
so maybe it does sound silly, but it worked, like reverse thrusters
smile.gif

as for my sig, that's a quote from someone that used to post alot here.
 
Originally Posted By: JHZR2


Snow tires dont mean you can drive faster/harder in bad conditions.


You can drive somewhat faster than people with all-seasons when you have winter tires(not snows). The threshold is much higher and control much greater with winter tires.
 
The only winter tires we have ever had on any car are the Blizzaks on the '97 Accord.
They do make a difference.
Both Subies seem happy on the AS tires they're on, while the '99 Accord does fine on the ~20K Michelin Primacy tires it's on.
Tires are certainly a real factor in winter driving, but so is a good dose of experience coupled with common sense.
Finally, while there is always a strong temptation to go out and play in the snow, staying home is always the safest option when conditions are really bad.
 
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