Working on BMW's.......

[ffracer]

Originally Posted By: Audios
We favor BMWs at my shop because theyre the most logically planned out. Plenty of room to work in once you get the fan and shroud off, and exceptionally reliable if you keep up with them. We see a few with over 250k, just fixed up and sold an 97 528i that was a really solid car at 155k. I wish I had the opportunity to pick one up, but the A4 serves its purpose. Audi, by far, is the worst as far as technician or DIY work is concerned. Always 10lbs of poop in a 5 lb bag. Talk about layering! Bumper comes off and nose slides forward in almost every repair. Luckily Ive learned alot over the years of ownership. As far as BMW keeping it simple, I think that went out the door in 2006 with the "N" designation motors, and the subsequent revisions to all the motors. The car doesnt run under vacuum for one, and on the newer turbo motors they breathe backwards. As in the turbos and exhaust manifolds sit in the V and the intake is on the outside of the block. Plus, on the X6, 76 bolts hold up 29 heat shields under the cowling that only fit ONE WAY!!!! Thanks BMW!!!

BMWs are better wow? How about electrical, suspension bushings, body hardware, and everything else they assume works great until there's no margin? I have an M3 E36 and it is unbelieveable the non-performance [censored] I have not seen on anything else except, well VWs and Chryslers. I can't imagine it gets worse with the newer ones. it is fun to drive.

Audis must really be behind the cause of baldness.

 

[The_Eric]

Originally Posted By: Norm Olt

There are those who maintain that the trend is to make things so convoluted, so complex, such a royal PITA that the average consumer won't even attempt any service or maintenance work.


I think it depends on the person or car. When we had a 48 Pontiac in the shop, we were working on it as a mechanical restoration- slowly and as filler work. Consequently it was there a lot. We always had people drooling over it and recalling the good old days of how easy cars were to fix. I say "BUNK"!!!! I've worked on some of them oldies and not all are easy or well thought out. I had to put a turn signal kit in a 50 Chevy once. Ugh... There was not even enough room to stick your head under the dash to see what you were doing and the wiring to the rear, went up through the front door pillar, back along the roof and was covered by the head liner. If it weren't ripped, I don't know how I would have run wires to the trunk. The brake light switch was underneath the car, exposed to the elements and half blocked by the brake, clutch and shifter linkages... Yeah, great idea. I've had my hands in that Pontiac plenty of times too, and it wasn't necessarily any easier to work on either.






Originally Posted By: Audios
Audi, by far, is the worst as far as technician or DIY work is concerned. Always 10lbs of poop in a 5 lb bag. Talk about layering! Bumper comes off and nose slides forward in almost every repair.


We've had a few VAG products come through our shop and I hear ya about the Audi. I had to do a timing belt on an 02 A6. When I first opened the head, I thought this is going to be impossible! After reading the labor guide it went like this:

Step one, remove bumper. HUH? This is not looking good!

Step two, rest of front end. Hmmm....

Then all of a sudden it was like the Hallelujah Chorus.... Everything was right there and easy to replace.

In retrospect it really didn't take very much work to get the front end slid forward. BUT.. I have also had the (dis)pleasure of watching and helping another mech work on a Cabrio w/the 2.8v6 and the New Beetle with the 1.8T. Not anywhere near what I'd consider a good time.

 

[Spazdog]

Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Yeah this is why I like BMW's, Porsche's, and Mercedes. They are all very easy and logical to work on once you understand how they think when they build them.


Porsches?

Have you ever done the clutch on a 944?

They bill about 25 hours in labor. more if you decide to do the torque tube bearings.

You have to take the wheels, fender liners, etc... off to do the plugs on a Boxster. It's not much easier than doing the back three on a transverse V6.

I'm still trying to figure out "how they were thinking" when they made the 928.

From a mobile electronics installer point of view, most Porsches are remarkably "normal" (other than the ignition switch being on the wrong side of the dash on a 911...Toyota stopped putting them there in the late '60s)
The Cayenne is the usual bag of VAG multi-plexed nonsense.

BMW is also remarkably "normal". Once you get past the brittle plastics and several different Torx fittings on one panel. Nein! zere are no uzer zerviceable parts in here. Ve haf put ze different size fasteners on die panel to keep you out! But the wiring makes sense.

My favorite is Mercedes Benz. Nevermind 0gauge amp wire, I can stick my whole ARM through that hole. Loosen and lift fusebox, Pull out the black plastic garbage bag full of sponges, VOILA! Big freakin' hole! Just a plastic garbage bag of sponges between passenger compartment and engine compartment.

 

[Audios]

Audis are tough yes, but once you get to know them theyre not so bad. In all honesty it takes me about 20 extra minutes to get the bumpers off, then its only 8 more bolts to get the nose into service position. Some of the easier timing belts can be done in under 2.5 hours, from setup to off the lift.
The 928 was a huge step for Porsche, and owners today are still paying for it. A recent major service (four digits)included a set of spark plug wires that listed for $871 (We gave 15% off) and 1500 miles later needed a 900 rebuild of the fuel injection module. To date is still the most expensive Porsche to maintain. 1000 water pumps at 11 hours labor, plus a timing belt kind of helps keep the crown.
If you have the right tools, you can do everything on a Boxster from underneath the car, wheels on. Stubby ratchets, mini 5mm allens, and short wobble extensions are your friends

The ignition switch is more form over function nowadays, it used to be for the race car drivers when they ran to the cars at the start of the race. Key in left hand, and slam into 1st gear with right, instead of 2 movements with the right hand. Germans.....

 

[bruno]

That's funny because my '49 Chevy had a removable panel in the firewall so access to the back of the instrument panel was reasonable .

 

[hattaresguy]

Originally Posted By: Spazdog
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Yeah this is why I like BMW's, Porsche's, and Mercedes. They are all very easy and logical to work on once you understand how they think when they build them.


Porsches?

Have you ever done the clutch on a 944?

They bill about 25 hours in labor. more if you decide to do the torque tube bearings.

You have to take the wheels, fender liners, etc... off to do the plugs on a Boxster. It's not much easier than doing the back three on a transverse V6.

I'm still trying to figure out "how they were thinking" when they made the 928.

From a mobile electronics installer point of view, most Porsches are remarkably "normal" (other than the ignition switch being on the wrong side of the dash on a 911...Toyota stopped putting them there in the late '60s)
The Cayenne is the usual bag of VAG multi-plexed nonsense.

BMW is also remarkably "normal". Once you get past the brittle plastics and several different Torx fittings on one panel. Nein! zere are no uzer zerviceable parts in here. Ve haf put ze different size fasteners on die panel to keep you out! But the wiring makes sense.

My favorite is Mercedes Benz. Nevermind 0gauge amp wire, I can stick my whole ARM through that hole. Loosen and lift fusebox, Pull out the black plastic garbage bag full of sponges, VOILA! Big freakin' hole! Just a plastic garbage bag of sponges between passenger compartment and engine compartment.


Sorry I only think of the 911 when I think of Porsche, I'm not a fan of the little ones or SUV's and don't know much about them. I liked the Caymen until I realized the motor is buried.

 

[hattaresguy]

Originally Posted By: double vanos
Ferrari spark plug replacement is easy too-
Step1) remove engine from car...
After that, it's smooth sailing....


For a timing belt service yes, and its actually not that hard. For plugs, not so much, just pull them out.

Oh and you remove the car from the engine, not the other way around. With most Ferrari's the car is lifted away from the engine which is dropped down, underneath.

 

[CBR.worm]

I find my infinities and previous Nissans and Toyota's to be pretty easy to work on. The BMW looks particularly easy, but it might just be because it replaced an Audi that everytime I opened the hood, something would disintegrate and require bumper removal and/or intake manifold removal. And honestly I haven't had to do anything to this BMW yet. I open the hood every so often to make sure all the parts are still in the correct spot.

My last Porsche was very easy, but it was a mid 80's 911. Couldn't get much easier, parts weren't cheap though.

My dad just had his Cayenne plastic coolant pipes and crossover manifold replaed at a local shop. He bought the parts and we were going to do it until we started looking at it more closely. Did not look particularly fun.