Work truck advice/recommendations

[07Wolfie]

I manage a small electrical product and service company in Southern California and we need to expand our work truck fleet by adding 2 trucks. Our budget is around $35K-40K for both trucks, so we're shopping used and lease-return trucks. Besides being the Operations Manager, I'm sort of the Chief Mechanic on staff as well and it will be up to me to evaluate the trucks before we decide to buy. We're looking at 3/4- and 1-ton single and dual rear wheel pickups, some with service bodies. I'd like some BITOG feedback on your opinions about:

-which engine/drivetrain combos from which years are best and which to avoid
-how many miles is too many for a given combo
-what types of things would you check on the lot to determine if a truck has been abused or neglected

I'm pretty familiar with the 7.3 PSD and we have a couple of GM 5.3s that have worked very well, but I don't know very much about the 6.0 PSD, any Cummins or Dmax, Ford modulars, etc. All opinions and suggestions are welcome, and thanks in advance!

 

[Donald]

I have an older Cummins 5.9 with 160K and its like new. With a diesel and no road salt, the truck will last until its beat up looking (from delivery drivers driving it).

 

[Drew99GT]

I don't think there would be anyone who would disagree with me saying Ford's 6 liter Powerstroke hasn't exactly been the best engine ever made.

 

[07Wolfie]

Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
I don't think there would be anyone who would disagree with me saying Ford's 6 liter Powerstroke hasn't exactly been the best engine ever made.


OHGOD, let's not open up than can of worms here, lol. I know they've got special issues, but a lot of trucks around here have them. I guess I'm mostly wondering what types of things to look at on a 6.0 to lessen my chances of buying a lemon.

 

[DrDusty86]

I don't think anyone would disagree that Dodge's body still are BY FAR the worst ever made.

 

[UNC017]

I'd avoid the Ford 6.0 at all costs, and cast a very wary eye on the 6.4 PSD's. So for your budget that pretty much rules out Ford diesels because a newer Scorpion-powered diesel will break the bank. In fact, to afford *any* diesel (especially a Ram/Cummins or a GM/Duramax which old value better than the 6.0 and 6.4 Fords for very good reason) you'll have to get a pretty old truck. Diesels other than the Ford 6.0 hold their value far, far better than gasoline trucks. To me the jury is still out on who has worked around the whole DPF/EGR/Urea emissions control situation best, but I think on the limited knowledge I have (and relative like of complaints on the interweb) that maybe the Dmax is in the lead by a hair.

For your budget I'd look at gasoline, and take your pick based on the best deal you can get. When it comes to gasoline power, you could cover the differences in reliability between Dodge, GM, and Ford with one of those little round band-aids, they're all so close. Ford 4.6 (now 5.0), GM 5.3, and Dodge 4.7 are all superb entry-sized v8s. The 5.3 is actually one step up from GM's entry v8, but the entry is a tiny 4.5 that honestly competes more with the other guys' v6 engines. The up-size engines are all very solid too, though for work trucks that get beat on I'd probably avoid a Ford Ecoboost as just too experimental still. I'd probably give a slight nod to Ford in the chassis department, at least up until 2011. Then it might have to go to Dodge in the 1/2 ton size for the nice new rear suspension the brought out- I was skeptical, but they do ride far better and haven't lost a step in load carrying.

 

[UNC017]

Originally Posted By: DrDusty86
I don't think anyone would disagree that Dodge's body still are BY FAR the worst ever made.




Got a single fact to back up your opinion, other than you just don't like 'em or know someone who got a bad one? I won't deny that quality control at Chrysler was in the dumps several times, but the basic design is good, and everything built since around 08/09 has way improved quality control over the late Daimler years when morale was in the pits.

 

[UNC017]

Originally Posted By: 07Wolfie
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
I don't think there would be anyone who would disagree with me saying Ford's 6 liter Powerstroke hasn't exactly been the best engine ever made.


OHGOD, let's not open up than can of worms here, lol. I know they've got special issues, but a lot of trucks around here have them. I guess I'm mostly wondering what types of things to look at on a 6.0 to lessen my chances of buying a lemon.


Seriously- just don't even try to find a good one. There, the worm can is closed! Yes, some people have gotten good service, some people have fixed the issues, the 6.4 is much improved, etc. etc... but its just a big gamble. There are other easier and safer choices when your business' profitability depends on a truck that doesn't break the bank. The old 7.3 PSD and older Cummins engines are very solid, provided the truck they're in hasn't fallen apart around them. But as I said, I'd go gasoline given your budget. Gets you much newer trucks for the same $$ you'd spend on a diesel, and the gas engines will still give very good service.

 

[dave1251]

This is what I would lookout for in a 6.0PSD also 06-07 is what I would buy if I was going to buy a F250 with the 6.0. To many people sold or traded in their trucks when they heard about the "horror" stories.

Some 6.0L weak points (things to check):

Look for signs of coolant degas bottle overflow (dry white residue on and around the degas bottle or no level in degas bottle).

Lots of idling can cause EGR problems. I look at the hours on the engine (if it has this monitored) and divide the miles by the hours (is it below 30? If so, may have had lots of idling).

Even without much extended idling EGR valves can plug quickly - maybe negotiate for a new EGR valve. In fact, I would negotiate for them to pull the EGR valve to inspect it (have them show it to you when it is out and then you need to look into the intake). Check for wetness (w/ rear end jacked up) and for excess soot. Wetness indicates an EGR cooler leak. If the valve is gunked up, have them replace the valve. If the intake is real bad, you may push them to clean it as well.

Look underneath for oil leaks - some trucks have had a lot of them.

If you buy from a dealership, I would negotiate for them to install the latest flash of all 3 processors (PCM, FICM, ECM).

Negotiating for an extended warranty is always a good thing as well.

Try to find out about the routine maintenance:
· Filter change intervals on time? What kind of oil (CI 4 + or CJ 4 - one of these is required)?
· Find proof of Transmission being flushed/changed - it is recommended every 30,000 miles.
· Any exhaust problems visible (i.e. lots of white or blue smoke)? White smoke may mean an EGR cooler leak.

Check for any FLUID leaks (as stated previously - LOOK SPECIFICALLY FOR OIL LEAKS - 6.0L are prone to many of these from many possible places!!).

CEL (Check Engine Light) on? Consider getting a code reader and check for DTC's. You can have active DTC’s without a CEL.

The Electronic Shift on the Fly ESOF sometimes fails due to vacuum leaks. Be sure to check this out.

Check for excessive wheel bearing wear (looseness), sway bar (end link looseness), or ball joint looseness. Ball joints and sway bar end links tend to go out in the 70k-90k range. Jack one side up at a time and see if each wheel moves top to bottom only, if so, it is the ball joints. If it moves in all directions then probably wheel bearings.

Check the coolant - it should have the Motorcraft Gold Coolant - anything else and there may be problems. Look in the "degas" bottle and inspect the fluid - it should be gold colored and there should be NO OIL visible (oil emulsified in water can show up as brown sludge). As previously stated, the degas bottle should not have white residue around the sides of it (possible overheating issues).

Any evidence of a tuner (aftermarket air filter, gauges, etc)? Tuners may or may not be bad. Some tuners are MURDER on the transmission. Some dealerships will cause you a lot of problems w/ them - even if you bought it that way used.

Aftermarket air systems could be a problem. Many of them (like K&N) do not filter as well and could cause issues. Up to 500 hp, the stock air system is best!

Try to find out if the original owner ever ran it empty on fuel or have plugged filters (fuel pressure below 45 psig can damage injectors)?

 

[BrianWC]

FWIW, if you are thinking of looking at used/auctioned GSA or other government used trucks, they...can be a mixed bag. I know where I work there's lots of idling and other severe service. Yet there's no way you can get an oil change w/o some GSA bean counter sending you an email and telling you to go for it. I've had my truck for 3.5 yrs now and it's had 3 oil changes in that time. It was already 3-4 yrs old as I took it over from the previous incumbent. It's an 05 or 06 Silverado extended cab 4wd LWB...

On the other hand...it does seem to be running fine!

 

[expat]

"e a small electrical product and service company"

3/4 ton and one ton PU's are not what I would immediately think of as being your ideal required vehicle.

Would not a Van be more secure?

Why so heavy?

 

[antonmnster]

My work has a fleet of various about 40 Ford trucks and vans. They all have the 5.4 and I don't think I've ever seen one fail, or even sound bad. They tend to burn some oil, but as long as they're topped up, they're fine.

We run ours out to about 70-80,000 miles. Doesn't sound like much, but consider that we rarely exceed 30 mph. Most of the trucks are running 4-12 hours per day, most of them 7 days a week. The engine hours is huge.

We used to change the oil every 1500 miles, but doubled that when budgets got trimmed; that's when we started to notice consumption. The biggest weak area is sagging rear springs from our tool boxes and loose front ends from constant curb hopping.

 

[Spazdog]

Originally Posted By: expat
"e a small electrical product and service company"

3/4 ton and one ton PU's are not what I would immediately think of as being your ideal required vehicle.

Would not a Van be more secure?

Why so heavy?


I was kinda' wondering that myself.

Seems like many companies would actually see better service and lower use cost from Transit Connects and/or Colorado W/Ts. But where I live, people are very VERY insistant that they "need" a heavy work truck.
One of my clients works for a roofing company and he feels that he absolutely must have a Ram 3500HD with a Cummins Turbodiesel. He's not a roofer. He doesn't do the physical labor. He just quotes prices and works with insurance companies. All he carries is a ladder. But he thinks that no one will take him seriously if he shows up in a Transit Connect or Colorado.

 

[UNC017]

Originally Posted By: expat
"e a small electrical product and service company"

3/4 ton and one ton PU's are not what I would immediately think of as being your ideal required vehicle.

Would not a Van be more secure?

Why so heavy?


Hmm, I kinda blew past that requirement in my reply. The bigger truck kinda makes a diesel or bigger v8 a necessity, but I still think all the gasoline engines are totally comparable among the big 3. I still say shop F250, Ram 2500, and GM/Chevy 2500 gasoline trucks and pick the best deal for the trucks in the best condition.

I would guess his company is what's small, not the electrical things they service. Doesn't take a very big transformer or very many electric motors with all that laminated ferrous material to add up to more than half a ton.

 

[07Wolfie]

Originally Posted By: Spazdog
Originally Posted By: expat
"e a small electrical product and service company"

3/4 ton and one ton PU's are not what I would immediately think of as being your ideal required vehicle.

Would not a Van be more secure?

Why so heavy?


I was kinda' wondering that myself.

Seems like many companies would actually see better service and lower use cost from Transit Connects and/or Colorado W/Ts. But where I live, people are very VERY insistant that they "need" a heavy work truck.
One of my clients works for a roofing company and he feels that he absolutely must have a Ram 3500HD with a Cummins Turbodiesel. He's not a roofer. He doesn't do the physical labor. He just quotes prices and works with insurance companies. All he carries is a ladder. But he thinks that no one will take him seriously if he shows up in a Transit Connect or Colorado.


Haha, yes, I understand what you guys are saying. Luckily I have a justification: our company specializes in industrial and telecommunications battery systems, so we carry a LOT of weight very often. Plenty of mountaintop cell site work, so the 4 wheel drive gets worked out a lot too. There are times when the guys leave the warehouse with the rear axle of a F350 sitting on the bumpstops!

 

[afoulk]

Another issue with the 6.0's, although maybe not as common as the egr valve and coolers is the oil cooler. The coolant side can become plugged with debri and silica from the coolant, reducing its efficiency. From what i've heard, ford recommended to long of a change interval for the coolant, or people just went way to long without changing it and the silica in the coolant would come out of suspension and cause issues with the oil cooler and egr cooler. I'd also try and work in the updated egr cooler into the deal and even a coolant filter. or a complete egr system delete kit if emissions aren't an issue in your state. My father in law is a tech for a ford dealer but does a lot of work on the side at his house and I've seen him do head gaskets, egr coolers, and oil coolers on 3 different 6.0's just in the past couple months. The head gasket on one of them was due to the owner running a programmer on it and it probably saw excessive boost pressure. When he does head gaskets on them, he installs head studs right away. Yes the 6.0's can be reliable once you fix the problem areas, but its very expensive taking care of those items. Only real issues with the 5.9's are the fuel tranfer pumps, even the newer ones with the intank pump. When they go out, the truck will still run, but it eventually wipes out the injection pump. I've heard of some early 5.9 common rail engines (03-04?) having issues with dropped exhaust valve seats. If I could get a super duty with a cummins, I'd be a happy man

I think if I were to buy a diesel pickup again (had a 02 dodge a few years ago), and didn't want to do an engine swap, it would either be a super duty with a 7.3 power stroke, or a chevy with a duramax. As far as gas engines go, I don't think you can go wrong with any of the big three. Even the hemi in the dodges is proving to be a reliable engine.

 

[DrDusty86]

Dodge bodies, gates that will not shut easy, Dash blend door issues, 3rd gen "death wobble" door latches that break, body panels that dent when a bird [censored] on them, windshields that leak in 6 months. Horrible AC's

 

[Spazdog]

Remember when you could get a 3/4 or 1 ton with a 6 cylinder?

Chevy/GMC with a 292 or later a 4.3, Ford with a 300, or Dodge with a 225 slant six.

Seems like so long ago. I don't think you can get a Silverado 2500HD with anything less than a 6.0. I think the Ram's Hemi is the smallest HD pickup engine currently

 

[morris]

" Dodge's body still are BY FAR the worst ever made." ? oh i thought thats way i buy dodges. you loose a lot weight and get better MPG.

 

[01rangerxl]

Originally Posted By: 07Wolfie
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
Originally Posted By: expat
"e a small electrical product and service company"

3/4 ton and one ton PU's are not what I would immediately think of as being your ideal required vehicle.

Would not a Van be more secure?

Why so heavy?


I was kinda' wondering that myself.

Seems like many companies would actually see better service and lower use cost from Transit Connects and/or Colorado W/Ts. But where I live, people are very VERY insistant that they "need" a heavy work truck.
One of my clients works for a roofing company and he feels that he absolutely must have a Ram 3500HD with a Cummins Turbodiesel. He's not a roofer. He doesn't do the physical labor. He just quotes prices and works with insurance companies. All he carries is a ladder. But he thinks that no one will take him seriously if he shows up in a Transit Connect or Colorado.


Haha, yes, I understand what you guys are saying. Luckily I have a justification: our company specializes in industrial and telecommunications battery systems, so we carry a LOT of weight very often. Plenty of mountaintop cell site work, so the 4 wheel drive gets worked out a lot too. There are times when the guys leave the warehouse with the rear axle of a F350 sitting on the bumpstops!

If the cargo is just heavy, but can fit inside a van, maybe you can find a used Quigley 4x4 van? They convert Ford and GM vans to solid axle 4x4s with manual transfer cases. They are seriously heavy duty vans, often built on 3/4 or 1 ton platforms. Lots of utilities and other companies that work in remote locations use them.

It's too bad Nissan doesn't make a 4WD version of the NV series vans.

As far as large pickups go, I think the Super Duty is the most functional platform, but really any of them will work fine. I'd probably stick to gas though...$20K a truck won't go as far with diesel and 4WD.