Winter tires and tire shop incompetency

[redhat]

Some of you might have seen my previous post involving a winter wheel and tire ordeal on my 2017 Taurus. Below is the linked post - unfortunately, more has happened. I'll re-cap to give the full story. Great shakes, it's Yahtzee... or a Taurus The week before Thanksgiving, I put my 17" Rage R5 aluminum wheels on for the winter. On these wheels were a worn set of Falken EuroWinters. Since the Taurus has a hub bore of 63.4mm. I had a hub-centric ring to adapt from the 73mm of the aftermarket wheel. Shortly after, I hit a good sized pothole. I had a vibration but assumed I threw a weight. On 12/2 I went to Dunn Tire and bought General Altimax Arctic 12 and had them mounted and balanced on a 17" set of Rage R5 aluminum wheels. Luck would have it the vibration was still present, so I bought brand new 17" Liquid Metal Atom steel wheels from DTD. Had them shipped and made another appointment at Dunn Tire to transfer the tires and TPMS sensors. On 12/9, Dunn moved the tires and sensors to these new steel wheels. From that Monday to Thursday, I had a bad vibration at highway speeds, the car was shimmying. So that Tuesday, I ordered 67.1mm to 63.4mm hub-centric rings figuring the lugnuts didn't center these wheels for whatever reason. These steel wheels have a hub bore of 67.1mm. Thursday 12/13 comes and I pull each wheel off to install the hub rings. When I took the wheels off, I found out why the thing was shaking. They never took the old hub rings out! The wheel was never fully against the hub. The hub bores of the steel wheels were now bent towards me and the hub-rings for my old wheels were bent up. I spoke with a District VP and he agreed that it was their mistake and they were going to replace the wheels and the bent up spacers. I waited about a week for them to get the wheels in. On 12/21 I visited Dunn again and they moved these tires and sensors to these new wheels. So… now what has happened? I dropped the car off at 8am that day for the service. When walking in, I was watched like a hawk by 6-7 staff members. They must've all wanted to know who the guy was who complained. Felt somewhat strange but I guess that's the nature of the situation. I also requested a road-force balance to iron out all issues, they obliged. Car was done at 9am and I had a co-worker take me to pick it up. I brought the car back and finished my work day. By the time I got out of work, Dunn is closed. Immediately with a longer distance drive, I noticed the following things.

• My TPMS light is on and I can't get one of my sensors to initialize with my TPMS tool (these are 1 and ½ month old genuine Ford Motorcraft TPMS12 sensors
• My Driver door panel has a large scratch in the plastic
• The car still shakes on the highway 60mph+

and the real kicker!

• These steel wheels are different to the point where they will not fit my Ford CVPI centercaps. They are a Unique 83 multi-fit. Much poorer paint quality than my Liquid Metal Atom steel wheels.

I temporarily put on my 20" Ford OEM alloys with Michelin Primacy MXV4 (10k on these tires) and the car is smooth as glass. I'm also going to take the car to a buddy's shop this week to just look over and make sure there are no issues. I am really impressed how much this place can mess up! I am thinking that the very least that can be done at this point is for this place to replace each of the steel wheels with the same kind I had and refund the 2nd mount/balance fee (when the tires were moved from aluminum to steel). I am almost certain that they'll deny all liability for the TPMS and the door panel scratch. But interior and exterior quality is something I am HUGE on. I get into cars gently and never brush up against anything. Anyone have an advice? I am assuming I'm pretty much at their mercy.

 

[CharBaby]

I stopped going to DUNN & KOST years ago. I just don't have time for their $#!+ I've actually been happiest at Walmart* Service Center. I buy my own tires, bring them into W*M, tell them what I want and they oblige. Sure, you can have issues anywhere but this is my best experience over the last 15 years. When I'm not happy at W*M, I contact the Store Manager.

 

[dadto2]

I got down to only BJs for tires myself, and I pretty much quit going there too. I just get my tires from the garage that does the rest of the work on my cars. I might pay marginally more, but never, ever have a problem.

 

[DuckRyder]

My advice is: Don't go back there. Buy 4 new Ford wheels and dispense with the centering rings and aftermarket junk. Replace damaged tires/TPMS sensors Let someone else mount and balance them. Chock this one up as a learning experience.

 

[jeepman3071]

Originally Posted by Char Baby

I stopped going to DUNN & KOST years ago. I just don't have time for their $#!+ I've actually been happiest at Walmart* Service Center. I buy my own tires, bring them into W*M, tell them what I want and they oblige. Sure, you can have issues anywhere but this is my best experience over the last 15 years. When I'm not happy at W*M, I contact the Store Manager.

Unfortunately he has aftermarket wheels, so my bet is WalMart won't touch them. The WalMarts here won't mount anything that differs from the door sticker. The stock size listed on my Cherokee's door sticker is 215/75R15, which came on the base trim model. I have the optional 16" factory wheels on my Cherokee, but WalMart wouldn't mount stock sized tires because the size was different than the door sticker.

 

[4WD]

Originally Posted by DuckRyder

My advice is: (added one) Don't go back there. Buy 4 new Ford wheels and dispense with the centering rings and aftermarket junk. Replace damaged tires/TPMS sensors Let someone else mount and balance them. Chock this one up as a learning experience.

Change the CPU fluid early and often

 

[redhat]

Originally Posted by 4WD

Originally Posted by DuckRyder

My advice is: (added one) Don't go back there. Buy 4 new Ford wheels and dispense with the centering rings and aftermarket junk. Replace damaged tires/TPMS sensors Let someone else mount and balance them. Chock this one up as a learning experience.

Change the CPU fluid early and often

Oh PTU/transfer case fluid.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Originally Posted by Char Baby

I stopped going to DUNN & KOST years ago. I just don't have time for their $#!+ I've actually been happiest at Walmart* Service Center.

Second that! I've had awful experience with Kost and Mavis. Walmart tire shop seems to always do a good job for me. No issues with TPMS or balancing issues with them, either.

 

[slo town]

Originally Posted by DuckRyder

My advice is: Don't go back there. Buy 4 new Ford wheels and dispense with the centering rings and aftermarket junk. Replace damaged tires/TPMS sensors Let someone else mount and balance them. Chock this one up as a learning experience.

I agree with this. ^^^ Furthermore, OP, I think you own the problem. First, it sounds like you bent one of your "Rage R5" wheels, although you never said so. And then you bought some new "Liquid Metal" wheels to replace them. You didn't say where you bought them, but it didn't sound like it was the tire store. IMO, it is perfectly reasonable for the tire store employees to assume you bought the proper wheels. You didn't. Furthermore, you first mounted your Liquid Metal wheels KNOWING FULL WELL they didn't have centering rings in them! But they did have centering rings. Liquid Metal sent the wheels to you with centering rings already installed! Centering rings that were too small for your Taurus! You need to check this stuff! But you might ask, how hard is it to for the tire store to check center bore. Easy enough, but what's next? Should they also check for proper offset through the range of suspension travel and steering angle? No way. That's on you. Anyway, I agree with DuckRyder, stop with the junk aftermarket stuff. If you insist on buying that stuff you should test fit yourself before Installing the tires. I'd never buy cheap aftermarket wheels (the wheel company names alone are a generous clue). Scott

 

[redhat]

My previous post I said that "Luck would have it that I hit a good enough pothole to bend one of these wheels." Yes I bent one. 7th line down, said I bought them from DTD. Figured BITOG knows that DTD is Discount Tire Direct. It is not hard to see a hub-centric ring on a hub when a wheel goes on or when a wheel doesn't go over a hub... This is common stuff. After I had the Altimax Arctic moved to the steel wheels I had the store bag the Rage wheels up and put them in the trunk. How was I to know that the rings were still on the hub. I assumed they were still in the aluminum wheel bore. Am I supposed to stay in the shop of a tire store that is being paid to perform a service and remind them on every inch of their job? I didn't test fit any of these steel wheels -- I brought them to the store. I don't know what your "Furthermore, you first mounted your Liquid Metal wheels KNOWING FULL WELL they had the incorrect centering rings in them! Why?" means. I didn't mount anything. The steel wheels I bought fit the hub without the ring. These are steel wheels Discount Tire sells, they might be aftermarket but are far from cheap.

 

[redhat]

And yes I did buy the proper wheels. They fit when the incorrect hub-centric ring isn't installed.

 

[slo town]

Originally Posted by redhat

Am I supposed to stay in the shop of a tire store that is being paid to perform a service and remind them on every inch of their job?

Yes you are. I do it all the time. Every single time I tell a tire store EXACTLY what I need and expect. I'd know enough, as it seems you do too, to ask that centerbore rings be checked for proper figment if the wheels have them and they haven't been checked yet. You should have asked. It's setting expectations and being clear with what's changed. For example, I explicitly ask them not to mar the edges of my rims - and that I will check each wheel afterward. I insist that the stick on weights are mounted "straight" on the wheel, and not cocked at an angle. I also ask that they calibrate the Hunter machine before balancing my tires. Importantly, if the centering rings simply pulled off your Rage wheels when they were removed from the vehicle.....shouldn't have happened. Centering rings MUST SNAP SECURELY IN PLACE with a machined groove. Do the rings on those Rage wheel simply slide into place? PIA you think? Not! My tire store loves me. I tip my installer $20 PER WHEEL, along with paying the regular fees. Been using the same guy, Jeff, for 7 or 8 years now. Sometimes I even bring a dozen donuts for the entire team if I am there early in the morning. Working in a tire store is a tough job, with low pay to boot. These guys are dealing with people who know very little about cars (not directed at you). IMO, when they have someone who comes in and explains exactly what they want and why, and that they will be rewarded afterward - they respect customers like that. Scott

 

[MNgopher]

A competent tire shop / technician would certainly know to be looking for the hub centric rings on any non-OEM wheel. The problem is finding the competent shop / and technician. My regular person is now far enough away it isn't worth my time to travel to him to get work done. My last several trips for tire work went so poorly every time that I kept on looking for that next shop. Now I seem to have found that guy - place operates under a major national banner (Tire brand name) but is owned independently and the owner is the one working the desk. Technicians are all friendly and genuinely engaged - and they all know how to work with their customers - from those who know nothing about cars to those who do and know what they want. Good luck finding that shop. They are out there - and the owner is smart enough to keep good help around. Not the cheapest, but that's OK. Let's just say that the owner noticed that none of my first questions when I arranged my last tire work had anything to do with price. What I was charged is fair (again, not the cheapest), but perfectly fair. I'm willing to pay fairly for competent work!

 

[maxdustington]

Originally Posted by SLO_Town

IMO, when they have someone who comes in and explains exactly what they want and why, and that they will be rewarded afterward - they respect customers like that.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but they don't care about you. They don't respect you, they like you because you are a big tipper. Businesses like customers who bring them business, not donuts.

 

[Sayjac]

I have to agree, based on what I've read including the evil eye, I wouldn't go back. As noted, you'll likely be SOL on the door scratch and TPMS. At this point it's one of those fool me once (and twice) shame on you, fool me three times it would be shame on me. Based on the results and posts, this outfit sounds far from professional or knowledgeable. And if what happened this last time (scratch, TPMS) was accidental, next time worse results could well be on purpose. Find another shop willing to do what you want and preferably where you can watch what they are doing. Just one of the things I like about DT, can watch the tire service either through lobby window, or from bay entrance/parking lot area.

 

[slo town]

Originally Posted by maxdustington

Originally Posted by SLO_Town

IMO, when they have someone who comes in and explains exactly what they want and why, and that they will be rewarded afterward - they respect customers like that.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but they don't care about you. They don't respect you, they like you because you are a big tipper. Businesses like customers who bring them business, not donuts.

Yep, fully aware of that. But I always get exactly what I want. Every single time. I'm looking for exceptional service, not friends. It's worth the money and donuts, given my wheelsets alone cost about $2500 for each BMW, not including the tires; Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2s on one of them, Bridgestone RE-11s on the other. I'm many ways in life, you get what you pay for. Scott

 

[SatinSilver]

I remember the non-stop vibration issues you had with your previous car. Now this one. Whew!

Originally Posted by redhat

Two weeks ago I took my Accord up to my fathers house (he's got the driveway room, I don't) and laid the Accord up on jackstands. Over the course of two weeks, I replaced:

• axles
• front wheel bearings
• tie rods
• ball-joints
• lower control arms
• upper control arms with ball-joints
• front struts
• intermediate shaft bearing
• front rotors
• front pads
• front caliper brackets
• front caliper slide pins

As some of you may know, I have been trying to chase down a vibration issue for the better part of two years now. After all of this work was performed, the car re-aligned -- the issue again comes and goes. During this 2 week layup, I was borrowing my fathers 122k mile, 2004 LeSabre. Most of the parts above were warrantied as they have been previously done. But what a chore. Think I might be looking to sell this Accord outright and get back into something larger. Especially with a family starting around the corner. The LeSabre made me realize 3 things.

• I hate shifting
• I miss comfort
• Wow I have a lot of trunk space

I have been looking at some 2017 Taurus in my area. I am super stoked to buy a car with a higher trim level and not have to make modifications to it. For example: stereo, backup camera, bluetooth, Apple CarPlay, etc. I cannot find anything bad about the 3.5 DOHC motor or transmission in these cars. As far as I know, they don't use oil. The Accord likes it's oil. The Taurus also can tow according to the manual. It is a must for me to be able to tow my ATV on a trailer. Hitches for the Taurus are cheap.

 

[redhat]

That car... has to be that the intermediate shaft is so worn where the bearing sits, it never seats correctly and just dances. Inevitably I'll be putting a new Honda OE Intermediate Shaft @ $500 into.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Originally Posted by SLO_Town

Working in a tire store is a tough job, with low pay to boot. These guys are dealing with people who know very little about cars (not directed at you). IMO, when they have someone who comes in and explains exactly what they want and why, and that they will be rewarded afterward - they respect customers like that. Scott

The angriest people in the auto industry I've met work at tire shops.

 

[CharBaby]

Originally Posted by jeepman3071

Originally Posted by Char Baby

I stopped going to DUNN & KOST years ago. I just don't have time for their $#!+ I've actually been happiest at Walmart* Service Center. I buy my own tires, bring them into W*M, tell them what I want and they oblige. Sure, you can have issues anywhere but this is my best experience over the last 15 years. When I'm not happy at W*M, I contact the Store Manager.

Unfortunately he has aftermarket wheels, so my bet is WalMart won't touch them. The WalMarts here won't mount anything that differs from the door sticker. The stock size listed on my Cherokee's door sticker is 215/75R15, which came on the base trim model. I have the optional 16" factory wheels on my Cherokee, but WalMart wouldn't mount stock sized tires because the size was different than the door sticker.

My W*M installs my tires on my aftermarket wheels. And I've even had/have cheap wheels bought from PepBoys or cheap wheels(RAGE) from DTD or aftermarket black steelies. When I bring in the wheels ONLY, they'll put on any tire I bring in. Now, keep in mind that I don't stray from the +/- that the vehicle allows. If I bring in my vehicle to have tires installed on factory or aftermarket wheels, they'll only install the correct size tire in the correct speed rating listed on the vehicle's place card. I believe that this a across all W*M's.