Will the high vehicle prices trickle down to my 500,000 mile Sequoia too?

[MNgopher]

Sorry, the concept that dealer pricing is due to anyone with a dealers license is wishful thinking at best. KBB Dealer pricing is essentially the best case scenario. And buying from a guy with a dealers license who flips cars is not what that pricing has in mind regardless of what you believe.

You can certainly want a profit for what you have done. Nobody guarantees one, and if you won't settle for less than dealer level pricing - good luck.

 

[OVERKILL]

KBB doesn't differentiate between a Toyota dealer or an independent dealer. A dealer is anyone with a dealers licence.

I'm aware of the technical definition, but the expectations of price for a storefront dealership with a showroom and service department are markedly different from even Joe's Roadside car-for-all lot, let alone some guy curb-staging in front of a house he doesn't own. Just because you have a dealer license doesn't mean you can command the same price as a branded dealership.

And what someone paid for it is irrelevant. In a free country you're not entitled to make a profit?

Well, it's entirely relevant when discussing it on this site, we all have a rough idea as to what you paid for it. I know what invoice was on all my vehicles I've purchased, I know what my dealer made for profit.

Everybody likes to think they are getting a "deal". Your reputation as somebody that flips cars for profit on here and comes off as a cheapskate certainly colours the nature of this discussion, even if you don't want it to. Hence my earlier remarks.

No, I didn't pay $2,400-2,500 for it.

Quoting you from that thread:

Well I finally got it today. They ran it through the lane every week since May. Hope those who think it's a $3K truck know what they're talking about 'cause I paid more than half that. Which is twice what I wanted to pay.

So, you paid less than $3,000 and more than $1,500. Maybe you only paid $1,700 for it? Maybe my $2,400-$2,500 was being overly generous.

I PUT that much into it above what I paid for it. And again, what does that have to with the asking price?

Even if I accept that at face value, if you paid $2,000 for it for example, so you've got $4,500 into it, you are trying to make 33% profit on it. I understand this is your "gig", but you need to understand that we are all aware of that, and since everybody else here is also looking for a deal, you trying to make more than double what you paid for it (because we know you didn't pay $3,000) seems ridiculous. That's what you are experiencing in this thread, a group familiar with the background story of the vehicle as well as your posting history, which is setting the tone/nature of the dialogue accordingly.

Unfortunate? Perhaps, but rather natural.

 

[Rand]

KBB doesn't differentiate between a Toyota dealer or an independent dealer. A dealer is anyone with a dealers licence. And what someone paid for it is irrelevant. In a free country you're not entitled to make a profit? No, I didn't pay $2,400-2,500 for it. I PUT that much into it above what I paid for it. And again, what does that have to with the asking price?

did you put 2 new tires on the driver side for that curb appeal? In front of the Random nice house you stage cars by.

 

[atikovi]

Even if I accept that at face value, if you paid $2,000 for it for example, so you've got $4,500 into it, you are trying to make 33% profit on it. I understand this is your "gig", but you need to understand that we are all aware of that, and since everybody else here is also looking for a deal, you trying to make more than double what you paid for it (because we know you didn't pay $3,000) seems ridiculous.

Since when does what you pay for something have anything to with the sale price? It's what you put into it plus what you paid for it that counts. By that argument, you buy a 67 Camaro barn find sitting for 40 years for $10,000, then do an $80,000 rotisserie restoration on it. You put a price of $100,000 on it, but are deemed greedy because you're asking ten times what you paid for it. OK.

 

[MNgopher]

Looking at the scenario at hand, not some special restoration, it looks more like this:

The expectation appears to be that: I spent X dollars, and then spent Y more to repair and refurbish the unit, so at a minimum I should get X+Y and Z (profit) for what I am trying to sell.

Reality is that sometimes even after spending a bunch of money on refurb and repair, you will never get back every dollar you've sunk into it... Because the market just isn't there for what you are trying to sell (say a used vehicle with over 500,000 miles on it for example...) There is generally a cap on what something like that will fetch, unless it has some special collector value, etc... This vehicle is decidedly not one of those...

And the KBB values are what (real) dealers are asking, not what people are actually paying.

You seem to be finding that out the hard way, despite being a flipper...

 

[atikovi]

The asking price is just that, an asking price. If I priced at $4500, I'd be getting $1500 and $2000 offers all day long.

 

[OVERKILL]

Since when does what you pay for something have anything to with the sale price?

How often do you willingly make a purchase for something at >100% mark-up over what somebody else paid for it? How often do you know what somebody paid for that item in the first place? Again, we, here, all have an idea of what you paid. That colours the discourse. Somebody who doesn't know you paid less than half of what you are asking doesn't have that background to go by.

If I pick-up a used Cisco switch for $150.00 and wipe it, update the firmware, give it a clean-up (put some time, and time is worth money) into it, is it reasonable for me to be able to sell it for $500?

Sure, if I can find somebody to pay $500.00 for it, but if it's an acquaintance of mine and he knows I paid $150.00 for it, he's clearly not going to be willing to pay that price, he might offering me $175.00 or something.

Of course if these same switches are on E-bay for $225.00 then my $500.00 is clearly out of line, even if the unit is in immaculate condition. The CDW site might tell me that these units, used, can fetch $500.00, but clearly nobody is paying that.

It's what you put into it plus what you paid for it that counts.

No, it's what its worth to somebody else that counts; what somebody is willing to PAY for it. You are not guaranteed a profit, let alone a healthy one.

By that argument, you buy a 67 Camaro barn find sitting for 40 years for $10,000, then do an $80,000 rotisserie restoration on it. You put a price of $100,000 on it, but are deemed greedy because you're asking ten times what you paid for it. OK.

This isn't vintage Camaro, it's a commodity SUV with insanely high mileage, those two things are not the same. You putting a windshield and a bit of work into it isn't the same as doing a full restoration on a vintage car either. That comparison is ridiculous.

 

[atikovi]

If I pick-up a used Cisco switch for $150.00 and wipe it, update the firmware, give it a clean-up (put some time, and time is worth money) into it, is it reasonable for me to be able to sell it for $500?

No idea what a Cisco switch is or what the book value is for one, but if you spend 10 hours of your time and spend $200 for parts fixing it, $500 is reasonable if that is typically what they sell for.

This isn't vintage Camaro, it's a commodity SUV with insanely high mileage, those two things are not the same. You putting a windshield and a bit of work into it isn't the same as doing a full restoration on a vintage car either. That comparison is ridiculous.

I did more than a"bit" of work into it. Funny here how the first thing you should ask when buying used car is when the timing belt was changed, but if YOU'RE selling a car and the belt was just done, it's dismissed and not worth considering.

 

[dishdude]

No idea what a Cisco switch is or what the book value is for one, but if you spend 10 hours of your time and spend $200 for parts fixing it, $500 is reasonable if that is typically what they sell for.


I did more than a"bit" of work into it. Funny here how the first thing you should ask when buying used car is when the timing belt was changed, but if YOU'RE selling a car and the belt was just done, it's dismissed and not worth considering.

Most people buying a 20 year old car with 500k on it for a few thousand dollars are broke. Paying extra for a new t-belt usually won't help the sale.

 

[atikovi]

Broke people aren't likely to be shopping for gas guzzlers. I'm looking for the 1 in 10 buyer that understands and appreciates the extensive service done to it and sees the mileage as a badge of honor.

 

[MNgopher]

No idea what a Cisco switch is or what the book value is for one, but if you spend 10 hours of your time and spend $200 for parts fixing it, $500 is reasonable if that is typically what they sell for.

That's what you aren't seeing. Nobody is buying them for $500. It isn't a reasonable expectation to get that, and is why people don't put the time and effort and parts cost into it.

You believe that you should get top dollar for your time and parts cost... reality is the price reasonable buyers will pay is appearing to be less than what you paid for and put into it - as is usually the case for what is a commodity vehicle, not anything special.

You say you are looking for the 1 in 10. More like so you're telling me there's a chance in dumb and dumber...

 

[OVERKILL]

No idea what a Cisco switch is or what the book value is for one, but if you spend 10 hours of your time and spend $200 for parts fixing it, $500 is reasonable if that is typically what they sell for.

You seem to be missing the point. The switch (or your SUV) is only worth what somebody is willing to pay for it. There isn't a glut of 500,000 mile SUV's out there that you can infer "typical" value from. The KBB figure may be WAY off from reality, because the sample size just isn't there, it's likely an extrapolation, calculated using an algorithm, not a dataset of vehicles with that kind of mileage and what they sold for from which the price is extracted.

Sometimes, we spend more in time/resources than what something is worth. Determining how this is going to play out beforehand is called doing our due diligence but sometimes, even when you do that, you still lose.

I did more than a"bit" of work into it.

But you didn't do a frame-off restoration, which is what you were trying to compare it to with the Camaro example, which simply falls apart under scrutiny, that comparison was ludicrous.

Funny here how the first thing you should ask when buying used car is when the timing belt was changed, but if YOU'RE selling a car and the belt was just done, it's dismissed and not worth considering.

Again, comes back to what the buyer sees as value. You can easily put thousands of dollars into a junker that you can't get $1,500 for two months later because the body isn't great and the interior has some wear and tear on it. Not saying that's the case here, but the reality is that what something costs us is not guaranteed a 100% return when we go to sell said item. What that item IS, has a very large impact. If this was an '89 Ford Mustang GT with that kind of mileage, but the body was mint? different discussion. Same if it was an '03/04 Cobra. But it's not, it's a commodity SUV with insanely high mileage and that's going to have limited curb appeal.

 

[atikovi]

I just asked if the high car prices will trickle down to my Sequoia. Why has this turned into an 11 page thread?

 

[OVERKILL]

I just asked if the high car prices will trickle down to my Sequoia. Why has this turned into an 11 page thread?

Actually, you asked:

How much should I list it for with 5 times the miles? And mileage and price isn't proportional so one fifth of that range isn't the answer.

People started to give you answers, and you disagreed. Then the discussion turned into why they disagreed. That's how we ended up at 11 pages.

 

[Astro14]

I just asked if the high car prices will trickle down to my Sequoia. Why has this turned into an 11 page thread?

Then let’s end it here.

The answer to your question is - No.

Further, to be more specific, given the interest in this white elephant, you’re not going to get what you put into it.

 

[CKN]

Yea. This Used( vehicle) pig already has far more thread than it deserves

 

[Wolf359]

Maybe for a Tahoe or Expedition. Oh wait, no Chevy or Ford ever made it to 500K. Not sure on what planet you were searching for prices that you came up with $3500, but if you do find one at that price, expect to spend another $4,000 or $5,000 on service and repairs to make it reliable and safe.

I get it. I'm in real estate sales. When I say the market speaks, that's what you got when you offered it on eBay. Times and conditions change so it may or may not be worth more later. In real estate, you normally get your best price in the spring, after that it tends to trail off. At least in our market. Doesn't matter what you may or may not need to put into it, people make their offer based on what they think it is worth. The seller always determines the sale price, and the buyer offers whatever they think it's worth. So when I say the market speaks, the highest offer you got on eBay was $3500ish. You may have gotten more privately and maybe you should have taken it. I think on KBB, try putting in 200k or 300k and see what it says. I think after a certain mileage, it stops discounting the higher mileage but individuals buyers don't. And people always seem to say they sell for less than KBB, I prefer Nadaguide.com myself. But at the end of the day, the buyers only offer what they think it's worth. You have a meeting of the minds when both parties agree, but so far you haven't found the 6k buyer yet. Maybe it's merely a matter of time, but if each buyer costs you the equivalent of $20-$50 worth of your time and energy, maybe it's better to just cut your losses and sell at a lower price.

 

[Wolf359]

You say you are looking for the 1 in 10. More like so you're telling me there's a chance in dumb and dumber...

Probably much higher than that. But what you're talking about is called the greater fool theory. It works on the stock market, real estate market, whatever sales you want to talk about. No matter what you pay, there's some other fool out there willing to pay more. The only problem with the greater fool theory is that eventually you run out of fools. Kinda like the old saying that if you're at the poker table and you can't figure out who the sucker is, you're the sucker.

There's also the time value of money, can't understand why the OP holds onto cars that long, the longer you hold it, the lower the rate of return on the money invested. Sorta like how Walmart turns their shelves over frequently so for the same amount of money, if they make 1/2 as much profit as someone else but do 3x the volume in the same time frame, they actually make more money that someone who sells for a higher price but doesn't sell as much and sits on inventory much longer. Higher gas prices and higher interest rates don't make for higher prices especially on a gas guzzler. I'm seeing it in real estate now and I'm sure it's going to show up in the car market too. Sticking with the same price basically means you're slowly lowering the price due to inflation so in theory eventually inflation will catch up to your asking price.

 

[Wolf359]

Oh why didn't you include the Monroney sticker? They're normally just $8.

https://monroneylabels.com/

 

[atikovi]

There's also the time value of money, can't understand why the OP holds onto cars that long, the longer you hold it, the lower the rate of return on the money invested. Sorta like how Walmart turns their shelves over frequently so for the same amount of money, if they make 1/2 as much profit as someone else but do 3x the volume in the same time frame, they actually make more money that someone who sells for a higher price but doesn't sell as much and sits on inventory much longer. Higher gas prices and higher interest rates don't make for higher prices especially on a gas guzzler. I'm seeing it in real estate now and I'm sure it's going to show up in the car market too.

My cars and my money, I can hold on to them as long as I want. And 20 year old cars don't depreciate. Your analogy of Walmart widgets to vehicles is funny. I'd rather make $2000 on one car a month that I've serviced fully and not have to worry about getting a 2 am call a week later that it broke down, then making $500 each on 5 cars a month and have 5 times the chance of them having problems after selling. I prefer to sell quality instead of quantity.