Why this Chinese EV terrifies Europe’s carmakers
- Thread starter buster
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Thanks for the post. Very interesting.
Yeah. I saw this, amazing story.
Competition is good. Prices aren't cheap and to this day, in the USA there isnt massive EV demand. I do certainly see a purpose to them. However we are unique in the world for many things, luxury, convenience, massive interstate system, massive existing dealer support and system. Time will tell.
One thing that it overlooked, not sure if its an anomaly or is the market getting saturated already? I dont think so, but BYD 1st quarter profit is down 55% However the stock sells with a PE of 25 while Tesla sells at a PE of 345 . After thinking about it, maybe it's time to buy some BYD ... after all Berkshire Hathaway is significantly in it.
SO figure... this morning coffee rambling.
However, competition is good. Bothers me a little that China IS our enemy where when Japan devastated our auto industry at least they were a "friendly"
Competition is good. Prices aren't cheap and to this day, in the USA there isnt massive EV demand. I do certainly see a purpose to them. However we are unique in the world for many things, luxury, convenience, massive interstate system, massive existing dealer support and system. Time will tell.
One thing that it overlooked, not sure if its an anomaly or is the market getting saturated already? I dont think so, but BYD 1st quarter profit is down 55% However the stock sells with a PE of 25 while Tesla sells at a PE of 345 . After thinking about it, maybe it's time to buy some BYD ... after all Berkshire Hathaway is significantly in it.
SO figure... this morning coffee rambling.
However, competition is good. Bothers me a little that China IS our enemy where when Japan devastated our auto industry at least they were a "friendly"
Here is the thing, I think there would be massive demand if we let BYD in a truly open global market. But that's not happening. Legacy automakers would have a hard time competing....and they all know that. You could also make a national security case but I'm focusing strictly on the product itself.
I know this younger generation that views China differently than we do would absolutely buy a $15k Chinese EV without hesitation.
I know this younger generation that views China differently than we do would absolutely buy a $15k Chinese EV without hesitation.
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Yeah no doubt....
It's almost impossible to compete with a company that doesn't have to please investors or worry about losses.
I would buy a Chinese vehicle without hesitation if everything was as good as the American equal at a much lower price. I dont think you have to be young. Im not a hypocrite. Every household in America is full of Chinese goods, young and old.
I do think as a nation we fail to see them as an enemy but I cant hold the USA up with my spending dollars alone. We have become fat.
AN example is mandating insane minimum wages in many USA states. Look at what is happening in the fast food industry. In a matter of 5 years most all employees of fast food chains will be replaced by robotics. The most basic jobs in many states have to pay upwards of $20 an hour in a country with a min wage of $7.25 an hour.
But I dont see 15k models ever showing up in the USA. Every time I see a "review/road test" on these cars I am seeing price points of 30k or more.
Am I missing something? I know overseas that they have some low cost, low luxury EV's but ... anyway, serious question because I Really dont follow BYD are there any models that could possibly show up on our shores at that price? (or would it ever be allowed to happen because it would kill the USA sales?)
After all, Tesla is surviving in China and they arent a 15k EV either.
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I agree, they would certainly not be $15k here. I'm looking at all this from a neutral position. It seems there are two narratives here when it comes to BYD, and China in general. 1. quality is bad. 2. They're only good bc they are subsized.
I would argue that quality is actually very good considering the price, as stated even by Ford's own CEO who said he was blown away by them. I would also remind people that Tim Cook said the idea that China is just a hub of cheap labor is a dated myth. China has significant quantity of engineering expertise. They made it a focus and it's benefitting them.
They're a 5k year old civilization with 1.4bln people highly educated in STEM. They are g going to produce good things.
Well Ford is taking on that initiative as we speak with their EV Skunkworks program. Thing is, people here will put them down like they do all EV tech so they're just adding to the already bad position we could find ourselves in if EV tech continues to accelerate and gain market share.
https://insideevs.com/reviews/728293/ford-skunkworks-ev-specs-range/
The bit I found hilarious is that BYD claims to file 50 patents per day. Apparently China now wants to play the “fair” game.
I understand your distrust and dislike of China, but put that aside and look at the actual product and tech development they are producing.
If it was garbage, the industry wouldn't be acting the way they are. That's everything you need to know.
I know communists, lying, cheating and misleading is their game.
I don’t believe for a second they have the technology that’s years ahead of the west, not a chance.
The corporate suits will not say anything because all of them want to sell in the Chinese market. They know it won’t be possible if they expose the Chinese manufacturers.
What the western corporations are truly scared of is the pricing. They are terrified of competing with that. They know full well that people will buy an inferior product as long as it’s good enough and priced well below everything else.
So let me ask you this then....many of their engineers are educated here in the US and go back to China. Many steal inside trade secrets and many are just good engineers. Some even flee companies here and go back to China and vice versa. They also make a lot of components in cars we purchase now that are domestic. They even built their own space station by themselves. Why do you feel they are incapable of creating good technology?
Right. The irony isn't lost on me.
The larger issue for me is that "free trade" as a functional concept is dead, because all of the classic logic of David Ricardo relied on assumptions that simply are not true any longer. Exchange rates are broken. If they weren't broken, the dollar/RMB valuations wouldn't be remotely close to what it is right now.
THe irony of course is that those who are predicting China's collapse will eventually be proven right, but will be dead and forgotten before it happens.
Exactly.
Western companies are constrained by regulations and rules that don't apply to Chinese companies. A western company cannot get 60 hours of productive labor from someone for very little. It cannot get massive exemptions from environmental contamination and pollution. It must borrowing money from private lenders instead of also BEING the bank.
The West has been collectively suckered into trying to compete against China using rules they set for their advantage. But, we get cheap stuff on Amazon from brands you've never heard of, so it's all worth it, right?
+1 They're a big reality, and a threat to all EV makers, even Elon.
If things change they could become a nightmare for US EV makers in a few short years.
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The west has been predicting that for 40+ years. They're a 5k year old civilization. They're not collapsing. Gordon Chang has been literally saying that for the last 50 years every day. I'll believe it when I see it.
People tend to forget the west puts out its own propaganda.
China is also a state capitalist country that puts engineers and scientists in their government.
It may seem like I prefer or am praising China. No, I'm looking at it for what it is at the moment and looking at it objectively as possible based on accomplishments.
My opinion is that they can copy and mostly match the tech of the west. There is zero evidence they are years ahead, like pretty much every journalistic piece claims. Which is exactly why I believe the opposite is true. The narrative they push is opposite of reality. And you can tell this narrative is very important because everyone repeats it even if it’s not really related, like someone visiting China. They always seem to mention how much ahead of the west all the tech is.
China is a very pro tech country, including AI. They're also great at implementing it. They're by far the leader in Robotics technology. I look at this differently. Information is always going to flow back and forth and people will inevitably copy tech or steal it. Whether person to person or gov to gov/corporation etc. But the idea China can't create or foster creativity is not a western propaganda myth. Ford is trying to replicate what China is doing.