Why taxing the rich just doesn't work.

[Shannow]

keith,
That wasn't my point.

My point was that once a threshhold is exceeded, the truly rich (not just high income earners) would rather pay lawyers than taxes, as they pay less for lawyers than their tax bill would be.

I'm in favour of getting them to pay their fair share is all, given that the every dollar that I earn on my investments is taxed at 48.9 cents.

 

[Al]

John Kerry: "Rollback tax cuts for the wealthy, Roll back tax cuts for the wealthy, Roll back...."

Ad-Nausium

 

[keith]

quote:

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Originally posted by Shannow:
keith,
That wasn't my point.

My point was that once a threshhold is exceeded, the truly rich (not just high income earners) would rather pay lawyers than taxes, as they pay less for lawyers than their tax bill would be.

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Goodness, those evil rich are minimizing their tax bills. Let's publicly flog them! How dare they! Don't they know they should be looking for ways to pay as much as tax as possible, LOL.

Keith.

 

[Gary Allan]

quote:

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Goodness, those evil rich are minimizing their tax bills. Let's publicly flog them! How dare they! Don't they know they should be looking for ways to pay as much as tax as possible, LOL.

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They take quite good care of themselves already. Like I said ...I don't care if you took the added revenue from the "rich" and threw it into a shoe box or go and burn it for all the good it would do for the nation. The whole point is for the rich to have INFLUENCE on how the govennment spends OUR MONEY sinc it also spends theirs.

Right now they got the best of both worlds. They get to keep more and pay less for the reckless administration of the rabble (which is us). It really doesn't matter to the rich how much GW borrows and spends ...nor how much the Dummies tax and spend. Those issues are for (now how did Leona Hemsley put it ??) ..little people.

 

[Shannow]

quote:

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Originally posted by keith:

quote:

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Originally posted by Shannow:
keith,
That wasn't my point.

My point was that once a threshhold is exceeded, the truly rich (not just high income earners) would rather pay lawyers than taxes, as they pay less for lawyers than their tax bill would be.

---

Goodness, those evil rich are minimizing their tax bills. Let's publicly flog them! How dare they! Don't they know they should be looking for ways to pay as much as tax as possible, LOL.

Keith.

---

So you aren't in favour of a progressive tax (fair enough), but are actually in favour of the richest paying nothing, not even a flat rate ?

 

[needtoknow]

For a liberal I think the whole tax system needs a rework. It's been tinkered and screwed with so much it just doesn't make any sense to the average taxpayer. It's inefficient and dishonest. One idea I think needs discussion is dedicated taxes. Politicians don't have the back bone to be honest with people and people don't want honesty. The attitude seems to be "don't tax you, don't tax me, lets tax that man behind that tree". Politicians tax those items that give them the least back lash. For instance if more revenue is needed they add more sin taxes or fees then rob those increases and put them into the general budget. The reason and purpose for the tax or fee is forgotten so it's just a revenue thing. When I lived in Alaska the DMV was a money maker that hauled in way more than it needed to run, but the politicians kept deducing service and raising fees while the revenue was put somewhere else not related to DMV. Consequently we all had to put up with long lines and waste a minimum of 2 hours at the DVM. If that money was dedicated to it's purpose we all could judge what we were paying and the level of service we were getting. Want more service, pay more, but at least we would all get a sense of value. This would also help stop politicians from transferring money to their pet pork projects. I'd like to here other thoughts on this.

 

[Shannow]

needtoknow,
We got the GST, a 10% tax on consumption.

Not necessarily a bad idea, as it brought some of the cash economy back into the system.

We had the treasurer make a great moment, by wheeling into parliament the 18 volumes of tax law, and requesting a simplification.

He got his GST, and as a result increased the number of volumes of tax law.

There was no simplification, but an amplification.

The black economy appears to have been given an extra bonus, in that all receipts count as an input tax credit, whle a cash job leaves the books entirely.

We've got a more complex tax system, and the black economy still prospers.

And of course, the obscenely rich still get to drive on the same roads that I pay to build/maintian without contributing a single cent.

Funny that at the Tax summit, the "Flat Tax" was ruled out as not even being able to be presented.

 

[keith]

quote:

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Originally posted by Shannow:
So you aren't in favour of a progressive tax (fair enough), but are actually in favour of the richest paying nothing, not even a flat rate ?

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I don't know how on earth you got that from what I wrote, LOL.

Keith.

 

[keith]

quote:

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Originally posted by Shannow:
... He got his GST, and as a result increased the number of volumes of tax law.

And of course, the obscenely rich still get to drive on the same roads that I pay to build/maintian without contributing a single cent.

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I have no comment on what those evil rich Canadians pay or don't pay, but the statistics I previously quoted show that the evil rich b*stards here in the US pay proportionately a LOT more than those lower down the income scale. The bottom 50% of income earners pay about ZERO US federal income tax.

If you have statistics that show the Canadian rich pay less, please post them here so we can educate ourselves.

Keith.

 

[needtoknow]

Shannow, Canada also put in a GST of 7% which was on top of most provincial taxes of 8%. At the time of the tax it was supposed to replace the manufacturers wholesale tax on goods. Shelf prices were to be adjusted down on the date of implementation as the wholesale tax was being eliminated. Guess what, prices never moved. Became a windfall profit for manufacturers. Some provinces calculated their sales tax after GST addition, tax on tax. In the next election the Liberal runner said he would remove the GST, guess what, he won, never removed tax. At least in Canada you get all your medical costs (not dental) paid by the government (taxes). Politicians seem to need to engage in these bait and switch schemes because they can't be honest and get elected.

 

[Shannow]

quote:

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Originally posted by keith:
If you have statistics that show the Canadian rich pay less, please post them here so we can educate ourselves.

Keith.

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Keith,
I wouldn't have a clue on Canadian taxes.

And I acknowledge that upper income earners (with bracket creep, and a 48.9c/dollar tax that kicks in at $60k (Oz- $40k U.S.) there's more and more of us every day).

My point was the obscenely rich are paying nothing, not that upper income earners don't pay more.