Why so few extended drains?

irollturbo · Jan 26, 2005

I was just looking through the posts and it struck me how few people on the board are running extended drains.

Based a number of excellent results I've seen to date, it seems terribly uninteresting to look at a synthetic UOA that is less than 10,000 miles or 1 year.

With all the hoopla over extended drains it doesn't seem like many people are practicing it. Seems like 90% of the posts are under 10K...maybe we need an extended drain forum.

Not trying to stir controversy. Just not sure what to make of it.

-Ted

SSDude · Jan 26, 2005

I agree completely.

Rob Taggs · Jan 26, 2005

Old habits are hard to break, black oil is used up oil are just some of the reasons maybe? As for me, it is an old habit with 3,000 mile changes. Quality oil and filters are inexpensive for the most part. Why take chances with extending a product beyond what it is speced for? Synthetics you can get away with it but, most consumers are not using synthetic. Folks on this site use them alot but, as I said, the general public does not. Plus, when I do my changes I know that the filter has whatever junk in it and I'm not taking the chance of recirculating it back it to the engine should it get past the filter media. So why take chances? I don't.

pitzel · Jan 26, 2005

I got slammed big-time in another forum for this statement:

quote:

A disporportionate number of BiTOG members operate engines and equipment with turbochargers, desire extended drains, or just have silly urges to use $5/quart oil

But ain't it the truth? Just what is an 'extended drain' anyways? My owners manuals have always specified 7500 miles or 1 year, whichever comes first. How is the motoring public being influenced into the 3000 mile oil change? Does it come from their fathers? Does it come from advertisements from the quickie-lube industry? Does the recommendation come from any official government source (apparently there is a Government of Canada website that endorses 3000 mile oil changes). Mobil's Extended Performance oil marketing should be very interesting, as the approach they take to marketing their oil will be, as traditionally retail oil companies haven't had a great interest in marketing their products in a manner that would lead to less sales volume.

moribundman · Jan 26, 2005

10k miles has been my regular OCI for the past 9 years. I don't consider it "extended," although it is above the car maker's 1996 7.5k mile OCI recommendations.

ekpolk · Jan 26, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by pitzel:
I got slammed big-time in another forum for this statement:

quote:

A disporportionate number of BiTOG members operate engines and equipment with turbochargers, desire extended drains, or just have silly urges to use $5/quart oil

Click to expand...

But ain't it the truth? Just what is an 'extended drain' anyways? My owners manuals have always specified 7500 miles or 1 year, whichever comes first. How is the motoring public being influenced into the 3000 mile oil change? Does it come from their fathers? Does it come from advertisements from the quickie-lube industry? Does the recommendation come from any official government source (apparently there is a Government of Canada website that endorses 3000 mile oil changes). Mobil's Extended Performance oil marketing should be very interesting, as the approach they take to marketing their oil will be, as traditionally retail oil companies haven't had a great interest in marketing their products in a manner that would lead to less sales volume.

I don't know if you deserved a "big time" slamming for that, maybe just a small time slam.

There are plenty of perfectly valid reasons for using synthetic oils (which others come in at $5-ish per quart?), even for less-than-extended OCI. You're absolutley entitled to your belief that this may be a manifestation of a "silly urge," but that characterization surely does not add much to the tone of the conversation. If you choose to post in this fashion, you need to be wearing your asbestos suit (or at least good Nomex). It's almost as if you doused yourself in gas, lit a match, and were amazed because you got flamed. . .

Now, with that out of the way, just last night, I posted my latest UOA, which I took at ~5k miles, as a mid-point check. My intent is to go the full 10k, although I am concerned about the TBN. On the other hand, I tried particle counts for the first time on this test, and that indicates that my oil is considered clean, even by hyd fluid standards. So count me in as pushing up toward 10k. Unless I get some other indication that calls for an early abort, I'll be reporting back with 10k results around the end of next month.

Gary Allan · Jan 26, 2005

Quite a few of our members do what they consider extended drains. They don't just do extended mileage drains. Most also do UOA ...but don't express them as 6 month OCI (bold print) with xxyyy mileage (small print). They don't do more than 8-12k a year ...and can't quite make the 1 year OCI. This reduces it to convenience.

Some are like RT (nothing wrong with that)..but others go top shelf and still stay "close to home". I can't knock them too much either. Some of them are in Canada ..and are in a an environment that adds a little twist to the madness. Others just aren't interested in finding their limits. Virtually no one needs to do 3k/3m OCIs anymore ...then again most of us really don't need pickup trucks, turbos, Vettes, and a variety of other self indulgent distractions either. There are even some of us that have up to 4 or 5 vehicles and just can't put that much mileage on that many cars ..and therefore time is our criteria for the OCI

Ugly3 · Jan 26, 2005

There are also a bunch of people who say for $7.00 I can change the oil and filter and know I am safe. Why screw with longer OCIs?

ekpolk · Jan 26, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by Ugly3:
There are also a bunch of people who say for $7.00 I can change the oil and filter and know I am safe. Why screw with longer OCIs?

But they don't really know that they're safe, they're just gambling on the probability that they are OK. Certainly not a risky bet given what we know, but I'd prefer to actually know the health status of my oil and engine. This lets me "screw" with longer OCI, a particularly desirable option when if I was playing the short-change game, I'd be wasting precious time I could have with my family, doing oil changes about every third week. It's really just a matter of personal preference, I prefer my approach and the short-changers can have theirs.

Gary Allan · Jan 26, 2005

I'm still poised in the wings waiting for the first 3k UOA on the new Mobil EP oil.

It will make my day

I won't be able to resist the urge to give jeeeest a little poke in the ribs on that one.

ekpolk · Jan 26, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by Gary Allan:
I'm still poised in the wings waiting for the first 3k UOA on the new Mobil EP oil.

It will make my day

I won't be able to resist the urge to give jeeeest a little poke in the ribs on that one.

Heck, if my preliminary indications are accurate, and that member uses an M1 filter, that oil will probably be in better shape after 3k miles than it was coming out of the bottle.

msparks · Jan 26, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by irollturbo:
Based a number of excellent results I've seen to date, it seems terribly uninteresting to look at a synthetic UOA that is less than 10,000 miles or 1 year.

-Ted

Ted I agree completely. I spend very little time in the UOA section, it just seems like the same old hat. While I'm glad folks are getting educated on oil analysis it seems pointless to say. "HEY LOOK MY OIL CAN GO 5,000 MILES"

yugrus · Jan 26, 2005

I guess many owners are restricted by the warranty requirements. My manual has a special schedule for "Canadian driving conditions", whatever it means. And it is very explicit about 5,000 OCI. When I'm out of the warranty, that would be completely different story.

ruking77 · Jan 26, 2005

Yup I total agree, I would not do "extended" oil changes!!!

Normal ones are far safer! My normal ones are 15,000 mile OCI's!My normal for a TDI application is 20,000 miles OCI

!!!

I have been doing these OCI's for app 696,000 miles, so I have a little history.

FL-400S · Jan 26, 2005

Ill do the $7 oil change and worry about my own health. Its only a car. Ive got backups anyway. I dont have any clones, so no backups there. OTOH I dont drive that much (2 drivers, 4 cars) and each oil change is probably 6 months and only 2500 miles.

quote:

Originally posted by ekpolk:

quote:

Originally posted by Ugly3:
There are also a bunch of people who say for $7.00 I can change the oil and filter and know I am safe. Why screw with longer OCIs?

Click to expand...

But they don't really know that they're safe, they're just gambling on the probability that they are OK. Certainly not a risky bet given what we know, but I'd prefer to actually know the health status of my oil and engine. This lets me "screw" with longer OCI, a particularly desirable option when if I was playing the short-change game, I'd be wasting precious time I could have with my family, doing oil changes about every third week. It's really just a matter of personal preference, I prefer my approach and the short-changers can have theirs.

farrarfan1 · Jan 26, 2005

quote:

I guess many owners are restricted by the warranty requirements.

That's what's behind a lot of us doing short changes. My wife drives 3 miles to work, top speed about 35-40, several stop signs and stop lights and 3 miles home. Probably 90% driving in this car is stop and go around town around 500 miles a month tops. Warranty says "normal" driving oci is 6k or 6mos."Severe" driving oci is 3k or 3 mos.She definetly falls under the severe category. I have no doubt a good oil will last longer than 3mos under these conditons but I don't want to battle Chrysler in the event my 2.7L sludge-o-matic has a problem. I picked up some of the coupons from Pep Boys for the half off Mobil 1 so I may put in in the next change and go 6 mos and do a UOA.But I doubt I could convince Chrysler that it was operated under their "normal" schedule.

ekpolk · Jan 26, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by Ugly3:
There are also a bunch of people who say for $7.00 I can change the oil and filter and know I am safe. Why screw with longer OCIs?

Not to pick on you Ugly, but let me respond to this again. In thinking about this, I remembered a UOA that T-Keith posted recently, that's a great example of a situation where the 3/3 $7 oil change guy would have sooner or later met disaster (probably sooner). Here's the link to the UOA, which pretty clearly shows easily detectable trouble brewing. At only about 2,500 miles, this car's crankcase is awash in gasoline, and the 30 wt dino is already well down in the 20 wt range. Without early detection, this problem would have gone unchecked until the oil got too thin and poisoned to do its job. The 3/3 $7 OC guy would find himself on the roadside wondering what's going on. Instead, the owner can get this car fixed and move on with no worries.

labman · Jan 26, 2005

This thread raises some interesting points. I am less and less comfortable with my rut of new dino every 3 months regardless of the miles. Only been doing it since I bought my Grand Am in 92. Still, that is the severe schedule on my last 2 cars called for. I didn't interpret the manual for my 81 Phoenix V-6 that way, and ended up with sludge on 6 month intervals. Didn't know about Auto RX and other good stuff.

Today even dino oils are better, let alone synthetics. Maybe I should venture past 3 months. My car and truck are out of warranty, and I can always fall back on ARX if I get in trouble.

Has anybody noted whether the long OCI camp are the same ones changing other fluids long before the owners manual calls for, if it even eventually does? Come March, should I put a synthetic in the engine of my Cavalier and leave it long past June, but change the fluid in the 5 speed that Chevy calls lifetime? The 02 Cavalier will have about 60 K in March. I haven't changed anything except the oil, or had to add anything except gas and washer fluid.

Likely I would need to discipline my self to check fluid levels more often. Note, when I checked the owner's manual for the capacity when I changed the antifreeze in my truck, it said to check the coolant yearly and change it every 2 years. I check more, and change less than that. Never a leak in the radiator, and only one water pump since 1977.

As long as fewer changes didn't result in shorter lifetimes, it would be much better for the enviroment, the one I live in. It would aso save time and money.

srivett · Jan 26, 2005

My 92 VW Golf with the 1.6 litre diesel calls for 12,000 km oil changes and I'm going to start going that far on this oil change if I can get myself to. I backed out at 7500 on my last oil change (the first one since buying the car) because I had switched to synthetic @ 377K km.

My VW dealer recommends 8K for regular oil and a bit more for synthetic so they contradict the manual. This makes it difficult for me to go all the way to 12K.

Steve

Matt89 · Jan 26, 2005

quote:

Has anybody noted whether the long OCI camp are the same ones changing other fluids long before the owners manual calls for, if it even eventually does?

Labman - I feel the need to be somewhat consistent...in other words why run your oil 15K miles if you're going to change all the other fluids 'prematurely'. So my maint skeds are pretty much 'by the book' for most stuff. The main exception being that right now I'm running Mobil1 and synthetic ATF out to the 'normal interval' despite the fact that my driving is somewhat severe. I plan on changing coolant, brake fluid, etc per the manual.