Having owned both I prefer RWD over FWD. Call me a FWD hater, I am, and I never got stuck with one in snow. Actually my favorite is a 4 WD system that operates in RWD until you engage 4 WD.
Why Rear Drive is Better
- Thread starter TallPaul
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Rear wheel drive has more parts, is heavier, and usually requires an intrusion into the passenger compartment.
Engines normally are fore/aft, instead of sideways [like in FWD].
Les weight is on the rear with RWD,
But for driving, I prefer RWD.
Why?
Because there is no worse feeling than a car that 'plows'.
[When you are taking a turn and the front skids straight.]
This is the bane of FWD .
Having the rear swing out a bit is more natural and controllable.
Engines normally are fore/aft, instead of sideways [like in FWD].
Les weight is on the rear with RWD,
But for driving, I prefer RWD.
Why?
Because there is no worse feeling than a car that 'plows'.
[When you are taking a turn and the front skids straight.]
This is the bane of FWD .
Having the rear swing out a bit is more natural and controllable.
I've driven AWD, FWD and RWD under all conditions over the years.
In winter driving, I think decent tires are of more importance than any other single factor.
In general, RWD cars may not corner any faster than FWD ones, but they feel better.
I have no doubt that I could get better times around any road course with my '99 Accord than I could with my e36.
I also know that the old BMW makes the Accord feel like an appliance.
A fast and useful appliance, but an appliance nonetheless.
Once again, this is more a matter of feel than of performance.
In winter driving, I think decent tires are of more importance than any other single factor.
In general, RWD cars may not corner any faster than FWD ones, but they feel better.
I have no doubt that I could get better times around any road course with my '99 Accord than I could with my e36.
I also know that the old BMW makes the Accord feel like an appliance.
A fast and useful appliance, but an appliance nonetheless.
Once again, this is more a matter of feel than of performance.
Today while leaving work, one of my coworkers did a nice smokey burnout in a 1980s Dodge Ram Van. That's why RWD is better, lol.
Originally Posted By: subiedriver
FWD also plows hard in sharp turns under power.
So do any AWD or 4WD cars that don't have enough power to get all the tires to break loose.
I'm not going to say FWD is ideal but in reasonably powered cars, its not all that bad. In a track car like an Integra/Civic, some guys tune the balance to be pretty close to neutral while at mid throttle in mid corner. So you can tighten or loosen your line just with the throttle just like a well set up rwd or awd car.
Out of a 2nd gear corner exit, a rwd or awd car does have a bit of an advantage but the fwd car can usually be set up a bit looser to attack the corner entrance because getting on the gas will transfer weight to the rear and tighten the car up when needed.
FWD also plows hard in sharp turns under power.
So do any AWD or 4WD cars that don't have enough power to get all the tires to break loose.
I'm not going to say FWD is ideal but in reasonably powered cars, its not all that bad. In a track car like an Integra/Civic, some guys tune the balance to be pretty close to neutral while at mid throttle in mid corner. So you can tighten or loosen your line just with the throttle just like a well set up rwd or awd car.
Out of a 2nd gear corner exit, a rwd or awd car does have a bit of an advantage but the fwd car can usually be set up a bit looser to attack the corner entrance because getting on the gas will transfer weight to the rear and tighten the car up when needed.
As I mentioned I've owned both, and like the ride and feel of RWD better. The truth is as whip said, "in 99.5% of street driving situations, it's simply doesn't matter if the driver knows what he's doing". For me its all about the ride quality and nothing more. Butt dyno hard at work again!
Is one better than the other?
I think it all comes down to application.
But lets not forget how well FWD cars used to do on the Rally Circuit, Especially the John Cooper Mini's and their performance in the 60's Monte Carlo Rallies.
They Raced in some distinguished Company as well.....
http://www.supercars.net/cars/2911.html
I think it all comes down to application.
But lets not forget how well FWD cars used to do on the Rally Circuit, Especially the John Cooper Mini's and their performance in the 60's Monte Carlo Rallies.
They Raced in some distinguished Company as well.....
http://www.supercars.net/cars/2911.html
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Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
Today while leaving work, one of my coworkers did a nice smokey burnout in a 1980s Dodge Ram Van. That's why RWD is better, lol.
Yes indeedy. Locating tire smoke to the rear is a BIG advantage (68 Torino). John--Las Vegas.
Today while leaving work, one of my coworkers did a nice smokey burnout in a 1980s Dodge Ram Van. That's why RWD is better, lol.
Yes indeedy. Locating tire smoke to the rear is a BIG advantage (68 Torino). John--Las Vegas.
I wouldn't know the difference if it came and shook my hand. I've gotten my FWD cars to slide the rear end out through handbrake application. Snow tires reduce the plow effect in the winter, and are what any car owner wanting to get the most out of their car in the winter should get.
Then again, every single car I've spent appreciable time in has been FWD, as have all the cars I've owned. So I guess I don't know what, if anything, I'm missing.
Then again, every single car I've spent appreciable time in has been FWD, as have all the cars I've owned. So I guess I don't know what, if anything, I'm missing.
I prefer the driven wheels to have weight over them. So, FWD wins most of the time. I drive circles around anyone with RWD all winter long. Good snowy winter was fun. RWD cars get stuck way too easily causing all kinds of traffic.
The biggest weakness to FWD is the lack of good posi's. And, some traction control systems seem to react overaggressively and not let you power out of a situation. But, that traction control somewhat cures pegleg rain soaked road starts, especially if a sharp turn is involved. But, I prefer posi!
For RWD, I have nothing against those with the weight back there. All mid to rear engined RWD cars are a blast.
The biggest weakness to FWD is the lack of good posi's. And, some traction control systems seem to react overaggressively and not let you power out of a situation. But, that traction control somewhat cures pegleg rain soaked road starts, especially if a sharp turn is involved. But, I prefer posi!
For RWD, I have nothing against those with the weight back there. All mid to rear engined RWD cars are a blast.
I think FWD is highly overrated in the snow, every snowstorm we get out here in Colorado, I pass by numerous stuck FWD cars in my AWD Subie, hehee. It might be poor driver skill and/or poor tires, regardless, I wouldn't give up my AWD for anything. It definitely has a lot more turning stability, have both the front and rear wheels under power on an icy turn, is superior to FWD, in my opinion.
The only time I have ever cursed RWD is when my car got stuck in deep snow. With FWD, having your drive wheels up front with that extra weight over it, digging in and making tracks for the rear wheels to follow, you can drive through deep snow more easily. Otherwise, I think FWD is the single worst automotive invention of all time.
When I take a long trip with friends and let one of them drive the ones that drive F.W.D. cars much perfer driving my R.W.D. car.
I have not a clue why anyone living in Miami would need a F.W.D. car...Even up north I never had a issue driving a R.W.D. car in the snow.
I never in my life owned a F.W.D. car...I do know several people who moved down here from up north and traded their F.W.D. cars in for R.W.D. cars.
I have not a clue why anyone living in Miami would need a F.W.D. car...Even up north I never had a issue driving a R.W.D. car in the snow.
I never in my life owned a F.W.D. car...I do know several people who moved down here from up north and traded their F.W.D. cars in for R.W.D. cars.
Originally Posted By: whip
I've owned RWD cars and trucks, and FWD cars. In 99.5% of street driving situations, it's simply doesn't matter if the driver knows what he's doing.
Agreed.
This thread is similar to the manual vs. automatic arguments-for 99% of the driving population is simply isn't relevant. There are pros and cons to each, and in the end it's a moot point. It's an argument that is nothing more than an exercise in futility since both camps have their opinions and neither will be swayed by the others.
I've owned RWD cars and trucks, and FWD cars. In 99.5% of street driving situations, it's simply doesn't matter if the driver knows what he's doing.
Agreed.
This thread is similar to the manual vs. automatic arguments-for 99% of the driving population is simply isn't relevant. There are pros and cons to each, and in the end it's a moot point. It's an argument that is nothing more than an exercise in futility since both camps have their opinions and neither will be swayed by the others.
Originally Posted By: TallPaul
Seems front drive is more costly to repair driveline (can you even call it a driveline?) components, such as axles, clutch, transmission.
My FWD clutch jobs have been pretty smooth. My transaxle is around 75 lbs. The axles just pop out of the differential with a good tug. Then I can stuff the trans in the fender well and go at the clutch, on a pair of jackstands.
To DIY a RWD (never done it) I'd have to jack up the rear, drop the driveshaft, and maybe need several feet of socket extensions for that one special hard to get at bellhousing bolt. Then if the front end were jacked up and I were under the middle of the vehicle, it would be a fun wrestle getting the trans lined up and jammed back on.
Would go slick for a pro with a lift, I guess. Never done a RWD.
I also like the floating rotors and sealed wheel bearings of my FWD stuff, though that is sort of making its way into RWD as well at times.
Seems front drive is more costly to repair driveline (can you even call it a driveline?) components, such as axles, clutch, transmission.
My FWD clutch jobs have been pretty smooth. My transaxle is around 75 lbs. The axles just pop out of the differential with a good tug. Then I can stuff the trans in the fender well and go at the clutch, on a pair of jackstands.
To DIY a RWD (never done it) I'd have to jack up the rear, drop the driveshaft, and maybe need several feet of socket extensions for that one special hard to get at bellhousing bolt. Then if the front end were jacked up and I were under the middle of the vehicle, it would be a fun wrestle getting the trans lined up and jammed back on.
Would go slick for a pro with a lift, I guess. Never done a RWD.
I also like the floating rotors and sealed wheel bearings of my FWD stuff, though that is sort of making its way into RWD as well at times.
if you're speaking of "hat" style rotors and sealed hubs, They've been on RWD trucks and cars for a LONG time. Even my 3500 series GMC vans have had them since like 2002-2003!
Been a while, huh?
And to Whip and Poprivit, the exact same argument also works on oils. But on BITOG we split hairs regularly!
Been a while, huh?
And to Whip and Poprivit, the exact same argument also works on oils. But on BITOG we split hairs regularly!
Quote:
A recent issue of Grassroots Motorsports tested a humble FWD Acura RSX against a classy rear-drive BMW. The Acura actually turned laps a bit more quickly. How'd that happen? The Grassroots people realized that by stepping on the brake hard enough on entering a turn, the rear of the Acura could be made to swing wide, canceling out its inherent understeer. (This is the same effect you get by stepping on the gas in a rear-drive car.)
Wow, they discovered trail braking way back in 2003. They must have been one of the pioneers. Since then, many advancements have been made in the field. They have now determined that it's actually not the same as power oversteer, and that RWD cars can benefit just as much from trail braking as FWD cars!
A recent issue of Grassroots Motorsports tested a humble FWD Acura RSX against a classy rear-drive BMW. The Acura actually turned laps a bit more quickly. How'd that happen? The Grassroots people realized that by stepping on the brake hard enough on entering a turn, the rear of the Acura could be made to swing wide, canceling out its inherent understeer. (This is the same effect you get by stepping on the gas in a rear-drive car.)
Wow, they discovered trail braking way back in 2003. They must have been one of the pioneers. Since then, many advancements have been made in the field. They have now determined that it's actually not the same as power oversteer, and that RWD cars can benefit just as much from trail braking as FWD cars!
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