Why doesn't Ford bring their small TDI's to the US

[TiredTrucker]

I had a fondness for the VM 2.8L diesel in my 2006 Jeep Liberty. Was a real charmer. Once it got tuned to disable EGR, it was a great performer and blew the socks off anything in its class for fuel economy. Typically got 26-27 general running around, and 32-35 mpg on road trips. Had no problem pulling a 500 gallon fuel wagon and other stuff thru soft cropland. Not bad for a 4500 lb 4x4 with not the greatest aerodynamics. My son wanted it so bad that I sold it to him. Many days since, I wish I hadn't.

At least GM has taken the VM 2.8L and did some tweaking and is now putting it in the Colorado/Canyon pickups as their own 2.8L Dmax. Would love to see how that setup is doing.

 

[lars11]

Well, take one example: Our 2013 Mitsu Outlander 7 seater, is that a compact or medium SUV?
Anyways, here a liter of gasoline and a liter of diesel is approximately the same price. But the diesel has lower consumption, real life figures for the 2.4 gasser is 26 us mpg and the 2.2 turbo diesel is 31 us mpg.

That's ca 20% higher consumption for the equivalent gas model. Then theres fuel prices, taxes etc that may level the field but a diesel will use less fuel. By design, in fact.

For a SUV or family car, I would prefer a diesel too. Driving charateristics for the Mitsu diesel is much better than the Grand Cherokee gasser probably due to the torque curve.

 

[DuckRyder]

Originally Posted By: Danno
I spoke with a Ford engineer on this on a Ford product day at Dearborn proving grounds.
They don't see a marketing play with diesel cars and chose to go with the gasoline eco-boost product line.


I spoke at length to a Ford Engineer as well and this is the crux of it for automotive applications - they feel the Eco-Boost is the "better" choice.

Originally Posted By: Danno
Point in case is the Transit is available with diesel for certain commercial applications (chassis/cab).
Not available in consumer applications.


The 5 cylinder "Powerstoke" is available in Transit Vans for sure, I am not sure about Wagons.

 

[Jetronic]

I really like the mivec diesel, both in 1.8 and 2.2 form. Excellent torque curve, even the 115 bhp from the lowest power version feels like it hasmore when driving. And they're good on fuel. Not all diesels are like that...

 

[Andrew1972]

Originally Posted By: Eddie
Probably can't meet the US clean air specifications. Ed


+1. Vw had to cheat to make it. Other makers like Mazda, Volvo and Subaru could not meet emmisons so they gave up.

 

[Leo99]

No diesels
No manual transmissions
No station wagons

 

[abycat]

Originally Posted By: sasilverbullet
Right now around here diesel is consistently .20 cents more that regular. So please tell me why I need to spend more money on a noisy, smelly engine that gets the same mileage as most gassers today.


up here diesel is 15 cents a litre cheaper than gas and my truck gets the same mileage as a gas v8 but has double the power and 3 times the torque. Will also last 3 times as long. a win win for me!

 

[MNgopher]

Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad

We had to fill up at the high pressure pumps at truck stops, there were exactly two filling stations in Minneapolis/St Paul that had diesel on offer.


Exaggerate much? Must have been that the only two diesel pumps you claim were within 2 miles of where I live then... Was diesel harder to find 20+ years ago? Yes. Nearly as bad as you make it out to be? No. I drove a diesel truck for my company in the early 90's and diesel was readily available all over...

Maybe more to the point was finding good quality diesel that moved in sufficient volume...

Back to the original post, why would I want to buy a vehicle that fuel costs 20-30 cents more a gallon and gives more issues to deal with in the winter? With the usual high cost of entry, and higher fuel costs to boot, the breakeven point is wayyy out there.

 

[AirgunSavant]

I bought new in 1982 a Datsun Diesel Pickup and I did have to fuel at truck stops but
never had a line or anyone else bother me. That was worth it.
That truck got incredible mpg but it was more like a row boat. Last I heard it had over 500K on
it but haven't seen it for several years.
Phenomenal in snow too.

 

[Popsy]

Originally Posted By: shDK
I know it from a good friend who works at at ford dealer. He used to work for a Renault dealer. And when talking about diesels. It was night and day. Plus I maintain 2 mondeo diesels at work.


Renault diesel ? The one with cracked head at 200000Km, failing turbo, etc?
In my opinion not that better than Ford/PSA diesels...lots of other better diesel options, IMO

"Real" older 1,8 and 2.0/2.2 Ford design are different than newer 1.4/1.6/2.0L designs, always had a sweet spot for the older ones. Problem is often crazy long maintenance interval and lack of maintainance knowledge, as often in EU.

 

[FCD]

True Diesel is more expensive in the US than Gas, in Europe it's the opposite.
i guess also Americans are scared that Diesel cars are like the VW Rabbits you had in the 80s that are sluggish and smell and smoke badly, it still has a dirty image whereas it doesn't as much here, althought the VW scandal has not helped at all

 

[Finn]

Are the current European diesel engines sold in US of the latest generation?

Few years ago I read a diesel car test done in US. It had Mercedes, Audi and BMW diesel SUVs tested and all of those had older spec engines compared to those sold in Europe at the same time. Article said that this was because of quality of diesel available in US was not as good as on this side of the pond.

 

[hpb]

Simple answer - petrol is so cheap in the US that diesel has little appeal, unlike other countries where fuel economy actually matters. If I lived there, I'd drive a V8 too!

Those who are thinking diesel engines are noisy and smelly though have it very wrong - sure, some of the commercial vehicles are a bit gruff, but the passenger cars and SUV's, you'd struggle to tell it's diesel from the drivers seat. Until you feel that surge of torque virtually from idle that is!

 

[FCD]

Last year i rented a Seat Leon with the VW 2.0 TDI engine, i was stunned to be honest at the torque and power it had, i drove it pretty hard too and still managed 5.0L/100km ( 47 Mpg )

 

[stephen9666]

In my area, diesel always was significantly more expensive than gas, to the point where the cost-per-mile was almost the same as a gas vehicle.

When I was shopping for a car over a year ago diesel VWs still had high resale value. Add that to the fuel cost and it would have taken me 80k to 100k miles to break even before I'd be money ahead on fuel savings.

Now that the scandal has tanked VW values and diesel is the same or cheaper than gas, well, the calculation is different.

To the OP's point,
I think the VW scandal may be the nail on the coffin for diesel in the U.S., unless fuel prices go way up again and there's a case to be made for them. Even before the scandal they were a niche vehicle at best. I think the best car makers could hope for is them returning to niche status.

 

[Nate1979]

The national average price of diesel vs gas is about 5-10 cents on average higher price for diesel vs gas (so ~2-4%).

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: Finn
Are the current European diesel engines sold in US of the latest generation?

Few years ago I read a diesel car test done in US. It had Mercedes, Audi and BMW diesel SUVs tested and all of those had older spec engines compared to those sold in Europe at the same time. Article said that this was because of quality of diesel available in US was not as good as on this side of the pond.

Not true. In EU you have much more options.
In EU for example BMW X5 E70 was coming in range of 218hp to 306 hp.
Version that was sold here (that I drive) is twin turbo 35d that in EU has 286hp and 580nm. For the US market hp went down bcs of NoX emissions to 265hp, but torque stayed same at 580nm (425lb/ft).
As for diesel on roads? I like to see face of HEMI drivers in RAM went they are trying to catch up going uphill in Rocky mountains

 

[Finn]

As I said it was a few years ago. While European market had Mercedes CDI engines the US market ones had older pre-CDI engines because of the diesel quality. Good to hear that the situation has improved.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: Finn
As I said it was a few years ago. While European market had Mercedes CDI engines the US market ones had older pre-CDI engines because of the diesel quality. Good to hear that the situation has improved.

Well this BMW engine is available in the US since 2009.
In 2014 in F15 model they replaced this engine with single turbo engine, same as 3.0d in EU except here it has designation 35d.

 

[MNgopher]

Originally Posted By: Nate1979
The national average price of diesel vs gas is about 5-10 cents on average higher price for diesel vs gas (so ~2-4%).


Last info from the EIA shows the gap as of 8/15 is 16 cents per gallon, meaning its 7.4% higher as of that date. And that's lower than its been the past few weeks...

Off the top, you have to get at least that much better fuel mileage to break even...