i think its highly blown out of proportion unless u live in a tropical rain forest and store everything outside uncovered... i dont fog my riding mower and it sits outside all year uncovered and no problems yet,,, i had a chainsaw i havent ran in over a year pulled the muffler off it and it was nice and oily on the inside
Why do we fog an engine?
- Thread starter Cup of Joe
- Start date
- Status
Originally Posted By: jdh
i think its highly blown out of proportion unless u live in a tropical rain forest and store everything outside uncovered... i dont fog my riding mower and it sits outside all year uncovered and no problems yet,,, i had a chainsaw i havent ran in over a year pulled the muffler off it and it was nice and oily on the inside
You can rest assured that there are special interest groups out there who like to support the idea that "fogging" is absolutely essential. After all, Joe Customer brings his machine, say an outboard engine for instance, in for it's annual storage procedure. Fifteen minutes and a half a can of aerosol oil spray later, the customer gets a $120.00 bill. Easy money.
An acquaintance of mine bought a used 75 h.p. outboard which he stored in his heated basement. Before putting it away, he brought it to the local dealership to have it "prepped for storage" $112.00. Come spring time, he brings the engine and boat to the same dealership to do the spring preparation and mount it on his boat. Got it all done for just shy of $1000.00 but the cost was increased because the engine needed new intake and exhaust gaskets????? Pardon!!! Ka-ching!!
He brings his boat to the lake and runs it for a bit and is very disappointed with the engine's performance. Being very busy and not too bright, he leaves the boat and motor where it is and puts it away for the winter without doing his winter storage procedure. He did however, call the dealership to tell them that the boat didn't run so good and he wasn't happy. They tell him it's probably due to the old gas he used in it. Next spring he takes the boat out on the lake with fresh gas and it's just as bad. Not having any mechanical understanding of engines, he's listening to every lame diagnosis given by numerous family mechanic wannabes. Not one of them actually looked at the engine but everyone had a theory.
The guy finally asks me to take a look at the engine. We fire it up and it won't idle. It will run at higher rpms but not make any power. Back to the dock, off with the hood and I pull the spark plugs. They're wet with water. I told the guy that this is not a good sign. I pull the float bowls off of all three carbs hoping that the water is coming from the carbs. However, the fuel is good and carbs were in excellent condition. After that, I render my diagnosis. It's either a defective head gasket (not likely), cracked block or head. No visible indicators on the engine's head and I was suspecting the block.
So he brings it back to the dealership and asks a few questions about the work they did and how they would not have noticed that the engine was all but useless when they had it. Everyone has selective amnesia and cannot remember working on the engine until he pulls out his bill. He got the "That guy's not with us anymore".
He takes the engine to a different outboard repair shop for them to do a definitive tear down and diagnosis hoping that it's repairable. They find a cracked block and it's not worth fixing. So he's out over $2000.00 for the sick motor and springs another $7000.00 for a brand new one.
Took his engine in for a fogging and ended up getting a flogging!
i think its highly blown out of proportion unless u live in a tropical rain forest and store everything outside uncovered... i dont fog my riding mower and it sits outside all year uncovered and no problems yet,,, i had a chainsaw i havent ran in over a year pulled the muffler off it and it was nice and oily on the inside
You can rest assured that there are special interest groups out there who like to support the idea that "fogging" is absolutely essential. After all, Joe Customer brings his machine, say an outboard engine for instance, in for it's annual storage procedure. Fifteen minutes and a half a can of aerosol oil spray later, the customer gets a $120.00 bill. Easy money.
An acquaintance of mine bought a used 75 h.p. outboard which he stored in his heated basement. Before putting it away, he brought it to the local dealership to have it "prepped for storage" $112.00. Come spring time, he brings the engine and boat to the same dealership to do the spring preparation and mount it on his boat. Got it all done for just shy of $1000.00 but the cost was increased because the engine needed new intake and exhaust gaskets????? Pardon!!! Ka-ching!!
He brings his boat to the lake and runs it for a bit and is very disappointed with the engine's performance. Being very busy and not too bright, he leaves the boat and motor where it is and puts it away for the winter without doing his winter storage procedure. He did however, call the dealership to tell them that the boat didn't run so good and he wasn't happy. They tell him it's probably due to the old gas he used in it. Next spring he takes the boat out on the lake with fresh gas and it's just as bad. Not having any mechanical understanding of engines, he's listening to every lame diagnosis given by numerous family mechanic wannabes. Not one of them actually looked at the engine but everyone had a theory.
The guy finally asks me to take a look at the engine. We fire it up and it won't idle. It will run at higher rpms but not make any power. Back to the dock, off with the hood and I pull the spark plugs. They're wet with water. I told the guy that this is not a good sign. I pull the float bowls off of all three carbs hoping that the water is coming from the carbs. However, the fuel is good and carbs were in excellent condition. After that, I render my diagnosis. It's either a defective head gasket (not likely), cracked block or head. No visible indicators on the engine's head and I was suspecting the block.
So he brings it back to the dealership and asks a few questions about the work they did and how they would not have noticed that the engine was all but useless when they had it. Everyone has selective amnesia and cannot remember working on the engine until he pulls out his bill. He got the "That guy's not with us anymore".
He takes the engine to a different outboard repair shop for them to do a definitive tear down and diagnosis hoping that it's repairable. They find a cracked block and it's not worth fixing. So he's out over $2000.00 for the sick motor and springs another $7000.00 for a brand new one.
Took his engine in for a fogging and ended up getting a flogging!
Heh heh If you pour MMO down the throat of a B+S flathead. it will just keep on running. The most sensitive part on OPE is the carb. Since I started using fuel shut offs to run the carb dry after every use, and using a bit of MMO in the fuel. My carb troubles have pretty much ceased. Once I get an old piece of OPE back in service, I haven't had any carb or gas troubles. My last hard starter turned out to be that I had forgotten to open the shut off. DOH! To those of you dont like MMO , dont bother with it. But I came across the same advice to run the carb dry in the operator's manual for my 5 kw genset with a Tecumseh engine.
you run a tank of gas through, buy a tank of premium and and seafoam, run it, change plugs and live your life
Last edited:
I for one do not fog for storage under one year I have much more fear of mice and have had problems with them than a non fog engine in six month storage. With that said I do run a MMO in all my OPE gas cans year round and never a problem with start up of stored equipment year round.
Fogging is a complete waste of time and money. I have engines that are over 20 years old that have never been fogged and are kept in a shed outside in a damp new england region. Guess what?? No problems, no power loss, no smoking, no oil usage.
Spend your time and money doing more worthwhile things with your family...
Spend your time and money doing more worthwhile things with your family...
Originally Posted By: boraticus
Originally Posted By: jdh
i think its highly blown out of proportion unless u live in a tropical rain forest and store everything outside uncovered... i dont fog my riding mower and it sits outside all year uncovered and no problems yet,,, i had a chainsaw i havent ran in over a year pulled the muffler off it and it was nice and oily on the inside
You can rest assured that there are special interest groups out there who like to support the idea that "fogging" is absolutely essential. After all, Joe Customer brings his machine, say an outboard engine for instance, in for it's annual storage procedure. Fifteen minutes and a half a can of aerosol oil spray later, the customer gets a $120.00 bill. Easy money.
An acquaintance of mine bought a used 75 h.p. outboard which he stored in his heated basement. Before putting it away, he brought it to the local dealership to have it "prepped for storage" $112.00. Come spring time, he brings the engine and boat to the same dealership to do the spring preparation and mount it on his boat. Got it all done for just shy of $1000.00 but the cost was increased because the engine needed new intake and exhaust gaskets????? Pardon!!! Ka-ching!!
He brings his boat to the lake and runs it for a bit and is very disappointed with the engine's performance. Being very busy and not too bright, he leaves the boat and motor where it is and puts it away for the winter without doing his winter storage procedure. He did however, call the dealership to tell them that the boat didn't run so good and he wasn't happy. They tell him it's probably due to the old gas he used in it. Next spring he takes the boat out on the lake with fresh gas and it's just as bad. Not having any mechanical understanding of engines, he's listening to every lame diagnosis given by numerous family mechanic wannabes. Not one of them actually looked at the engine but everyone had a theory.
The guy finally asks me to take a look at the engine. We fire it up and it won't idle. It will run at higher rpms but not make any power. Back to the dock, off with the hood and I pull the spark plugs. They're wet with water. I told the guy that this is not a good sign. I pull the float bowls off of all three carbs hoping that the water is coming from the carbs. However, the fuel is good and carbs were in excellent condition. After that, I render my diagnosis. It's either a defective head gasket (not likely), cracked block or head. No visible indicators on the engine's head and I was suspecting the block.
So he brings it back to the dealership and asks a few questions about the work they did and how they would not have noticed that the engine was all but useless when they had it. Everyone has selective amnesia and cannot remember working on the engine until he pulls out his bill. He got the "That guy's not with us anymore".
He takes the engine to a different outboard repair shop for them to do a definitive tear down and diagnosis hoping that it's repairable. They find a cracked block and it's not worth fixing. So he's out over $2000.00 for the sick motor and springs another $7000.00 for a brand new one.
Took his engine in for a fogging and ended up getting a flogging!
BOAT= Break Out Another Thousand!
Originally Posted By: jdh
i think its highly blown out of proportion unless u live in a tropical rain forest and store everything outside uncovered... i dont fog my riding mower and it sits outside all year uncovered and no problems yet,,, i had a chainsaw i havent ran in over a year pulled the muffler off it and it was nice and oily on the inside
You can rest assured that there are special interest groups out there who like to support the idea that "fogging" is absolutely essential. After all, Joe Customer brings his machine, say an outboard engine for instance, in for it's annual storage procedure. Fifteen minutes and a half a can of aerosol oil spray later, the customer gets a $120.00 bill. Easy money.
An acquaintance of mine bought a used 75 h.p. outboard which he stored in his heated basement. Before putting it away, he brought it to the local dealership to have it "prepped for storage" $112.00. Come spring time, he brings the engine and boat to the same dealership to do the spring preparation and mount it on his boat. Got it all done for just shy of $1000.00 but the cost was increased because the engine needed new intake and exhaust gaskets????? Pardon!!! Ka-ching!!
He brings his boat to the lake and runs it for a bit and is very disappointed with the engine's performance. Being very busy and not too bright, he leaves the boat and motor where it is and puts it away for the winter without doing his winter storage procedure. He did however, call the dealership to tell them that the boat didn't run so good and he wasn't happy. They tell him it's probably due to the old gas he used in it. Next spring he takes the boat out on the lake with fresh gas and it's just as bad. Not having any mechanical understanding of engines, he's listening to every lame diagnosis given by numerous family mechanic wannabes. Not one of them actually looked at the engine but everyone had a theory.
The guy finally asks me to take a look at the engine. We fire it up and it won't idle. It will run at higher rpms but not make any power. Back to the dock, off with the hood and I pull the spark plugs. They're wet with water. I told the guy that this is not a good sign. I pull the float bowls off of all three carbs hoping that the water is coming from the carbs. However, the fuel is good and carbs were in excellent condition. After that, I render my diagnosis. It's either a defective head gasket (not likely), cracked block or head. No visible indicators on the engine's head and I was suspecting the block.
So he brings it back to the dealership and asks a few questions about the work they did and how they would not have noticed that the engine was all but useless when they had it. Everyone has selective amnesia and cannot remember working on the engine until he pulls out his bill. He got the "That guy's not with us anymore".
He takes the engine to a different outboard repair shop for them to do a definitive tear down and diagnosis hoping that it's repairable. They find a cracked block and it's not worth fixing. So he's out over $2000.00 for the sick motor and springs another $7000.00 for a brand new one.
Took his engine in for a fogging and ended up getting a flogging!
BOAT= Break Out Another Thousand!
"BOAT= Break Out Another Thousand!"
No kidding.
Believe it or not, the used replacement motor with the cracked block was replace another (original) 75 h.p. engine that had the oil injection pump go bad. In their wisdom, someone bypassed the engine safety shut down and went water skiing for a while. All the time, straight gassing the engine until it totally seized. Three engines and twelve grand in four years???? It will be interesting to see how long the brand new one lasts.
No kidding.
Believe it or not, the used replacement motor with the cracked block was replace another (original) 75 h.p. engine that had the oil injection pump go bad. In their wisdom, someone bypassed the engine safety shut down and went water skiing for a while. All the time, straight gassing the engine until it totally seized. Three engines and twelve grand in four years???? It will be interesting to see how long the brand new one lasts.
Just got in from winterizing my mower and 2-cycle engines. Ran them out of gas (gas had sea foam). Pulled the plugs, sprayed some Sea Foam Spray in the plug hole, held a rag over the hole and gently pulled the starter cord a few times to distribute the oil.
This is the procedure listed in all my engine manuals (they said to use the 4 or 2 cycle oil I use for the engines, but I went with Sea Foam spray because it's easier to get into the combustion chamber).
Drained any gas left in my containers into a windshield wiper fluid jug and will give that to someone who can use it to start a bon fire.
This is the procedure listed in all my engine manuals (they said to use the 4 or 2 cycle oil I use for the engines, but I went with Sea Foam spray because it's easier to get into the combustion chamber).
Drained any gas left in my containers into a windshield wiper fluid jug and will give that to someone who can use it to start a bon fire.
Or ending up with nice "S" shaped rods from a near hydrolock or complete hydrolock situation. I have never heard of anyone doig this to a diesel, and would advise not to try it.
Originally Posted By: Brons2
Originally Posted By: boraticus
Do people pull the fuel injectors on diesel engines to pour oil into or fog the cylinders for storage?
Seems like it would be near impossible to fog a diesel, the engine would use the fogging oil like a fuel.
Could there even be the danger of a runaway if you used too much?
Originally Posted By: Brons2
Originally Posted By: boraticus
Do people pull the fuel injectors on diesel engines to pour oil into or fog the cylinders for storage?
Seems like it would be near impossible to fog a diesel, the engine would use the fogging oil like a fuel.
Could there even be the danger of a runaway if you used too much?
Every engine I have recommends fogging for storage over 30 days. The older outboard and small engine manual make reference to a few ounces of oil down the spark plug hole and pull the cord a few times. I assume that all these companies know nothing about engines and storage. Even Lycoming has a oil fog storage procedure for their aircraft piston engines.
As far as wasting money goes, I would say it cost about 10 cents per engine to fog. (large engines a bit more) Time might be two minutes engine. That's an expense I am willing to live with.
http://www.lycoming.com/support/publications/service-letters/pdfs/SL180B.pdf
As far as wasting money goes, I would say it cost about 10 cents per engine to fog. (large engines a bit more) Time might be two minutes engine. That's an expense I am willing to live with.
http://www.lycoming.com/support/publications/service-letters/pdfs/SL180B.pdf
Last edited:
In my experience with salt water operations the only motor that needs fogging for prolonged storage is anything with fancy bearings, this means two strokes only.
A tiny rust spot on a roller bearing in a jet ski can trash the engine quickly, despite the anecdotal evidence provided in this thread.
That's why you fog an engine!
A tiny rust spot on a roller bearing in a jet ski can trash the engine quickly, despite the anecdotal evidence provided in this thread.
That's why you fog an engine!
None of use are going to take apart our engine in the spring and see if there is rust on the cylinder walls or not, but fogging will reduce it. Better for the engine and pretty cheap maint. Will it run in the spring with no fogging? Sure. Marine engines usually die of water in the cylinders from something bad in the water cooled exhaust. Lawn mowers just seem to fall apart but again do not die from rust in the cylinder walls.
A person can choose to do as they wish. However, claiming that failing to fog an engine will ultimately lead to it's demise is waaaaay off base. More two cycle engines are destroyed by straight gassing and failure to provide adequate cooling than internal meltdowns caused by failure to fog.
Why aren't we spending our time worrying about major contributors to engine failures rather than possible long shot chances?
Rather than fogging an engine, which in reality isn't a difficult task, albeit unnecessary, maybe people should be pulling the bottom end off of their outboards to inspect the impeller and flushing their cooling systems. It's far more likely to fry your outboard than a failure to fog the engine.
I've said it in previous posts. I have at least 60 cylinders that I'd have to fog if I were so inclined. Did it years ago when I didn't have as many. Stopped doing it probably 20 years ago. Nothing has blown up yet.
However, that's just anecdotal.
Sixty cylinders over a period of twenty years un-fogged!!
Yeah....... Really rolling the dice.......
Why aren't we spending our time worrying about major contributors to engine failures rather than possible long shot chances?
Rather than fogging an engine, which in reality isn't a difficult task, albeit unnecessary, maybe people should be pulling the bottom end off of their outboards to inspect the impeller and flushing their cooling systems. It's far more likely to fry your outboard than a failure to fog the engine.
I've said it in previous posts. I have at least 60 cylinders that I'd have to fog if I were so inclined. Did it years ago when I didn't have as many. Stopped doing it probably 20 years ago. Nothing has blown up yet.
However, that's just anecdotal.
Sixty cylinders over a period of twenty years un-fogged!!
Yeah....... Really rolling the dice.......
- Status