Why can't you use HM after ARX?

[MarkC]

I lied. Just checked the oil and it was half a quart low, after 1750 miles. Never used a drop before.
The engine is running perfectly, but I'm not pleased with the leak.

 

[Frank]

The instructions for stopping a seal leak in your case (you have already cleaned the engine is only to run Conventional Oil till leak stops )why would you think you need another bottle of Auto-Rx ? did you read the Auto-Rx Application Instructions ?

novadude read posts before this 3 or 4 up.

 

[kev99sl]

Let's come at this another way: there is no scenario in which it would be appropriate to run synthetic oil in a vehicle in which Auto-Rx was applied to fix a seal leak, correct? How is that not a black mark against synthetic oil and its "complex additive package"? If a person runs conventional oil for 100,000 miles, develops a leak, runs Auto-Rx, he must then run conventional afterward to keep the leak from returning. If a person runs synthetic oil for 100,000 miles, develops a leak, runs Auto-Rx, he must also then switch to conventional afterward to keep the leak from returning. Why? Because the synthetic oil will "re-damage" the seal. Translation: Synthetic oil is bad for engine seals, you shouldn't use it if you don't want your seals to leak after an Auto-Rx treatment, and you probably shouldn't run it in the first place ... am I missing something here?

 

[Frank]

Reposted with permission.He has it right Kev!!!
Ross,

Likely your rear main seal leaks were due to debris lodging up under the lip of the seal. ARX cleaned it out. Petroleum oil tends to shrink and stiffen the seal. Now the seal has reconformed to the journal. Once this has soundly occured, you may run any oil. I would suggest may be running a conventional rinse phase as you have done. Plus one more 3000 mile run on conventional, before switching to a full synthetic or high mileage oil. You should be fine.

If the seal begins to weep again, you could probably just switch back to a conventional to slow or stop it again. This would indicate that the seal is probably close to calling it quits.

 

[Frank]

Unfortunately your missing the entire point. Please
read Rick 20 post.Your scenario is incorrect.Once you stopped the leak you can choose to go back to synthetic if the leak reappears wise choice would be go back to conventional oil.I would stay with conventional oil and not switch back thats a choice not a dictate.

[ November 10, 2004, 06:18 PM: Message edited by: Frank ]

 

[kev99sl]

quote:

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Originally posted by Rick20:
Ross,

Likely your rear main seal leaks were due to debris lodging up under the lip of the seal. ARX cleaned it out. Petroleum oil tends to shrink and stiffen the seal. Now the seal has reconformed to the journal. Once this has soundly occured, you may run any oil. I would suggest may be running a conventional rinse phase as you have done. Plus one more 3000 mile run on conventional, before switching to a full synthetic or high mileage oil. You should be fine.

If the seal begins to weep again, you could probably just switch back to a conventional to slow or stop it again. This would indicate that the seal is probably close to calling it quits.

---

The "debris under the seal" theory is rampant, but I don't really know how sound it is. Speaking for myself, I've run nothing but high-quality synthetic oil (Mobil 1, Amsoil, or Redline) changed every 3,000 - 4,000 miles. I've run several Auto-Rx applications, and I have yet to see any evidence of any kind of sludge, debris, or dirt being "dislodged," even after three full Auto-Rx applications over the life of the vehicle. So yes, the seal may be worn, but I'm 99% certain there were no "false seals" that the Auto-Rx needed to contend with.

That aside, Frank has stated at least once on record that if you're trying to fix a leak, you must stay with conventional after the Auto-Rx application. Off the record, Frank hints at a latent disdain for synthetic oil in general. I'm not certain that any of the reasons for this have much basis in scientific fact. Esters "competing for space" just doesn't cut it in my book ... either the Auto-Rx position is that synthetics cause/worsen/bring back seal leaks, or it isn't; and if that is the position, someone needs to call the duck a duck: Frank believes synthetic oils are incompatible on some level with engine seals. Whether that's true or not is another discussion, but it seems a little disingenuous to me to say that the official position is that any oil can be run, when in fact Frank seems to believe that conventional oil is the only real way to go with seal leak applications.

 

[MarkC]

So, if Frank is correct, High Mileage oils with seal conditioners will not do what they claim?

 

[Ross]

It does take time for the seals to stop leaking. In my case, the auto-rx actually made the leak worse during the clean phase. It was well over 2,000 miles into the rinse phase that I noticed less and less leaking, and I was watching it like a hawk. It just takes time and miles!!

 

[Ross]

I just want to thank Frank!

This post clears up auto-rx's application instructions on the use of synthetic oil after seal leak or oil burning sludge treatment with auto-rx.

Thanks!

 

[C4Dave]

Frank,
I just started the AutoRx cleaning phase in my Explorer. I'm doing this to try to stop a rear seal leak. I will follow the instructions listed on the website.

One question about synthetics. Do you consider a Group III oil synthetic and conventional? As you know, many Group III oils are labeled synthetic. So when you say "no synthetic", is Syntec OK to use? Is it the ester content that is the concern? Many "synthetics" do not contain any ester, and choosing one of these may be the way to go.

 

[peterr]

This was my question as well. I am nearing the end of my first rinse cycle after my 1st of 2 scheduled auto rx treatments. The car consumes a lot of oil, but there are no obvious leaks or exhaust smoke. My assumption has been that it is largely the oil control rings causing my problems? The engine was heavily filthy, but I replaced the top end (head, cams and valves).

I have been using Castrol GTX Dino for both clean and rinse. After my second ARX clean and rinse cycles I would like to use the highest quality oil that makes sense for the condition of my engine, and had wondered if that meant that something like a Group III (Castrol Syntec) would give me a quality oil without introducing potential seal conditioning issues on a high mileage engine.

quote:

---

Originally posted by C4Dave:
Frank,

One question about synthetics. Do you consider a Group III oil synthetic and conventional? As you know, many Group III oils are labeled synthetic. So when you say "no synthetic", is Syntec OK to use?

---

 

[Frank]

Please understand you can use any oil you want after
using Auto-Rx cleaning procedure (you need to use conventional oil in rinse phase only) that is it.

Exception to the above is if your trying to stop an existing seal leak than go to www.auto-rx.com and read application procedure for seal leaks.

Auto-Rx does not swell seals, synthetic-semi synthetic-high mileage oil have chemistry that does swell seals.

I am not saying these oil's cause seal leaks I am saying if you already have a leak use conventional as simple additive package in this oil will not create potential reoccurence of leak.

Why would you use Auto-Rx on a leaky seal stop the leak than use an oil that will swell this seal ?

 

[TallPaul]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Frank:
Why would you use Auto-Rx on a leaky seal stop the leak than use an oil that will swell this seal ?

---

Good point, but I was under the impression that no reputable oil company would formulate an oil that swells seals, but that they include a balanced seal conditioning package that, where a seal swelling type oil is used, a chemical is added to control that swell.

But maybe I am wrong about oil company integrety. After all Shell Oil now markets the bogus Slick 50 and Valvoline once marketed the similar TM-8.

 

[MarkC]

As long as there's a market for something, somebody will sell it.
I'm surprised nobody sells magic beans these days, they seem to sell everything else.

Anyway, I topped off my oil and will check it out this weekend, and see what the story is.