I have pondered this for a while?
Sounds like a good idea but perhaps a 155mm bore size is not feasible for armor?
Sounds like a good idea but perhaps a 155mm bore size is not feasible for armor?
Why a main battle tank can (or can) not double as a self propelled howitzer?
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The reason is they have evolved into two different animals. Self propelled guns typically fire high trajectory rounds and use much less propellant for each round. Also, the high trajectory requires a larger turret and much larger profile. Tank design has tried to minimize the profile of the vehicle, typically anti armour rounds fire penetrator rods that destroy other tanks with pure kenetic energy, they can also fire HE rounds to destroy other types of softer targets, but their fire control systems are designed of line of sight targets. To make a do it all will be more expensive and less effective to each task. Self propelled guns also do not require stabilized barrels to allow them to fire on the move.
Good reply mntzr!
Also my guess would be that artillery pieces are expected / designed to fire a lot more rounds at a time (and over the course of a given maintenance cycle) than an MBT.
I have no data but I imagine that if you had the SP and the MBT firing constantly together the MBT would have to go home first.
Also my guess would be that artillery pieces are expected / designed to fire a lot more rounds at a time (and over the course of a given maintenance cycle) than an MBT.
I have no data but I imagine that if you had the SP and the MBT firing constantly together the MBT would have to go home first.
To the very good replies I will add that a tank is really meant to be on the move pretty much during an entire engagement, and fire at the same time, and its armor, suspension and ancillary components are specifically designed (or chosen) for this mission. SPGs are really meant to be mobile artillery, out of direct sight of the enemy, and they are designed for that task. Everything is a tradeoff in armor design, and by having a heavy monster with a howitzer you are trading off the superior armor and speed that is designed into tanks. Nowadays they look very similar, but the similarity is superficial. When the line was much clearer during WW2, the SPGs often had no overhead armor (completely open) and minimal armor elsewhere. They are not designed to go one on one with MBTs. The newer ones especially can fire and get away from the position quickly to avoid counterbattery, but that's about it. When you try to do too much with your design you end up like the Germans did with the Maus, basically a useless lump.
A self propelled 155mm howitzer is connected to a fire control center that takes the information from the forward observer, calculates the angles for the gun as well as how much power to load with the shell.
Over a decade ago, the mission came over the wire with this information, you loaded the shell and then the powder, closed the breech, and IIRC inserted a primer.
Yes, check it out here http://afvinteriors.hobbyvista.com/m109/m109a.html
It's been a while since I've been in an M109, and that was as a cadet. They sure are loud when you pull the lanyard. You do NOT want to be behind the gun as it recoils in the compartment. DO NOT stand behind the breech, LOL.
TB
Over a decade ago, the mission came over the wire with this information, you loaded the shell and then the powder, closed the breech, and IIRC inserted a primer.
Yes, check it out here http://afvinteriors.hobbyvista.com/m109/m109a.html
It's been a while since I've been in an M109, and that was as a cadet. They sure are loud when you pull the lanyard. You do NOT want to be behind the gun as it recoils in the compartment. DO NOT stand behind the breech, LOL.
TB
Assuming the same analogy to fire-arm calibers are all basic 155mm rounds (Russian, NATO, Israeli, Indian, etc) universally interchangeable?
Yes movement for self propelled arty is really much slower then a tank. The key reason you want mobile arty is to avoid counter battery fire. Even moderately advanced armies can track incoming rounds on radar and quickly fire rounds back. Against a competent army, you really want to move after you you fire 3 rounds. Move several hundred feet, stop, fire 3 rounds and move again. Modern warfare is pretty dangerous, and if you stay still for too long, you're pretty much dead.
There are two kinds of howitzers that you are talking about. There is the towed 155, also known as the 198, and the self propelled 155, also known as the Paladin. The Paladin has a digital control and GPS. This thing will lobe off 3 rounds in under 5 seconds and move out at about 45 mph. The towed 155 can shoot what they call a Rat Round, which will give them an extra 1000 meters, whereas the self propelled can not. When your spotters have identified the target at far enough distance, you don't worry about moving too fast because we know what the enemy has and they can't reach you. It's like those war movies where they call up the NP grid coordinates and then artillery is delivered, time on target. There is also MLRS, multiple launch rocket system, which is pretty powerful. These things carry 6 rockets and have various ranges. They can be loaded with just about any type of ordinance. They can be reloaded in about 5 minutes. The reloads can also be air dropped or wheeled in.
The MLRS is pretty cool, you pick the 1K grid square you want to take out and it can do that.
I was in the ultimate in Army field artillery units, I served with the 56th Field Artillery Command which was a Pershing II Nuclear Missile unit.
Essentially, we could pick the chair in the Kremlin we wanted to hit, while safely well behind the lines in Western Europe.
However, we didn't get to practice firing those things very much, LOL
TB
Well then Sir, you have probably been to where I work at, Fort Sill. This is the only allied field artillery training base in the world and we've seen just about every type of artillery ever made. We even have the only fully successfully tested atomic artillery shell howitzer, Atomic Anne, here. We had Pershing missle units here on Sill too, but that didn't last too long.
The MLRS with cluster bombs, nickname Steel Rain, can do more damage than anything I've ever seen, except for the C130 Gunship, but that thing will run out of ammo quickly.
The MLRS with cluster bombs, nickname Steel Rain, can do more damage than anything I've ever seen, except for the C130 Gunship, but that thing will run out of ammo quickly.
A dug in tank is nothing more than a bomb magnet.
The Iraqi's found that out the hard way the first timne around.
The Iraqi's found that out the hard way the first timne around.
Don't South Africa and China have Gerald Bull designed arty that substantially outrange US arty? (I'm talking guns here not MLRS) I think it uses base bleed technology. I read an article where South Africa conintues to develop the technology and the guns they are currently developing will range out to 70 km. That is INCREDIBLE. (currently they can do 39km km I believe).
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/rsa/g5.htm
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