I have a new Chevy Suburban(5.3L) with 3700 miles on it. Should I stay with the GM trans fluid or replace with Syn? This will be my last Suburban and plan on keeping it for a very long time so I want the BEST fluid for the long haul to protect my trans. Which brand would give my trans the longest life? Thanks!
Which Trans Fluid For The Long Haul?
- Thread starter yankees1
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A question I always ask my self is do transmissions usually fail from the oil or being engineered so poorly the parts break? I would first look into a big cooler then get on a service schedule.
If you change the GM stuff every 30,000 miles, the transmission will last as long as the engine.... I'd say 95% of transmissions fail from neglect, not poor fluids.
The main advantage of a 100% synthetic fluid are cooler transmssion temps - which will improve seal/gasket life - longer service intervals,and better extreme temp performance and shift quality.
Ted
The main advantage of a 100% synthetic fluid are cooler transmssion temps - which will improve seal/gasket life - longer service intervals,and better extreme temp performance and shift quality.
Ted
Is your tranny auto or manual? If its manual..the GM stuff is very good (its a semi-syn). If you are talking auto-change it out every 30 K or so as mentioned. I doubt there is a lot of difference in Dextron ATF clones. I have used several with oil analysis and the Mobil 1 stuff was definately no better. In fact it thinned jout quite a bit.
Synthetic ATF definitely runs 15-25 degrees cooler temps with at least 2-3 fewer changeouts (with up to 85k-100k miles fluid life)and with an inline external cooler, you'll do even better. Heat/fluid oxidation kills about 90% of all tranny failures as the primary cause. There is an algorhythym in the world of tranny cooler makers that says that for every 20 degree rise in ATF temperature above the ideal 195-200deg. that fluid life is cut in half (referring to petroleum based).
Anecdotal Storytime: I have an old driving-to-work beater Mercury Sable 3L v6 with the infamous Ford FWD AXOD-E tranny that is lucky to go 60k if that before a major failure. Bought it with 65k miles on a rebuilt tranny, changed out the fluid at 90k with dino ATF, had a catastrophic failure at 99k in the hills of W.VA., after leaving $2400 lighter,and 32 miles later at the edge of the interstate, another major failure on the new AAMCO rebuild, then on my way with a rental. Within a month I spliced in a huge inline cooler which the AAMCO rebuilders informed me that would be a waste of my money and as well a waste of my money according to them, to use synthetic ATF (Amsoil)which I switched to at 160k miles. The tranny was already shifting harshly at this time. The new syn fluid greatly helped the slam bang up-shifting to only ocassionally under hard acceleration. A few years later when I discovered Auto-RX and added 4oz. to the this tranny ,the slip shifts have all disappeared in under 500 miles; the car/tranny now has 253,400 miles and is still slap happy.
I recently switched our 98 Volvo automatic, which has harsher shifts than I like, to Mobil-1 ATF, but no real improvement here other than running cooler and finally getting rid of the extremely oxidized dino atf from the previous owner. I will probably go back to using Amsoil syn ATF here as well.
Accordng to Amsoil's own literature, Action News Jan 04, there is a writeup about their ATF that says it exceeds General Motors and Fords newest Dexron-III requirements to resist oxidation by a factor of 2-3 times. It is a High Temperature ATF Fluid Life Test: GM's THOT and Ford's ABOT measuring TAN increase which requires passing a minimum 450 hr. stress test before significant oxidation and breakdown of useful properties becomes obvious. Amsoil apparently went 900+ hrs.in the oxidation tests. Amsoil quoted GM Transmission Fluid Group Leader, Roy Fewkes, as saying many of the present day ATF fluids will have difficulty meeting the new GM factory fill specs and that the increased quality standards for DEXRON-III specs are driving the fluid formulations away from Group I towards Group II base stocks. It's something to keep in mind for your new Suburban if you are going to keep it a long time. Run your factory semi-syn ATF in the Suburban until the mileage that your owners manual says to get a tranny refill; then change over to full synthetic at that time, IMO.
Anecdotal Storytime: I have an old driving-to-work beater Mercury Sable 3L v6 with the infamous Ford FWD AXOD-E tranny that is lucky to go 60k if that before a major failure. Bought it with 65k miles on a rebuilt tranny, changed out the fluid at 90k with dino ATF, had a catastrophic failure at 99k in the hills of W.VA., after leaving $2400 lighter,and 32 miles later at the edge of the interstate, another major failure on the new AAMCO rebuild, then on my way with a rental. Within a month I spliced in a huge inline cooler which the AAMCO rebuilders informed me that would be a waste of my money and as well a waste of my money according to them, to use synthetic ATF (Amsoil)which I switched to at 160k miles. The tranny was already shifting harshly at this time. The new syn fluid greatly helped the slam bang up-shifting to only ocassionally under hard acceleration. A few years later when I discovered Auto-RX and added 4oz. to the this tranny ,the slip shifts have all disappeared in under 500 miles; the car/tranny now has 253,400 miles and is still slap happy.
I recently switched our 98 Volvo automatic, which has harsher shifts than I like, to Mobil-1 ATF, but no real improvement here other than running cooler and finally getting rid of the extremely oxidized dino atf from the previous owner. I will probably go back to using Amsoil syn ATF here as well.
Accordng to Amsoil's own literature, Action News Jan 04, there is a writeup about their ATF that says it exceeds General Motors and Fords newest Dexron-III requirements to resist oxidation by a factor of 2-3 times. It is a High Temperature ATF Fluid Life Test: GM's THOT and Ford's ABOT measuring TAN increase which requires passing a minimum 450 hr. stress test before significant oxidation and breakdown of useful properties becomes obvious. Amsoil apparently went 900+ hrs.in the oxidation tests. Amsoil quoted GM Transmission Fluid Group Leader, Roy Fewkes, as saying many of the present day ATF fluids will have difficulty meeting the new GM factory fill specs and that the increased quality standards for DEXRON-III specs are driving the fluid formulations away from Group I towards Group II base stocks. It's something to keep in mind for your new Suburban if you are going to keep it a long time. Run your factory semi-syn ATF in the Suburban until the mileage that your owners manual says to get a tranny refill; then change over to full synthetic at that time, IMO.
I would drain the pan and torque converter, replace the filter, and fill with either Mobil 1 or Amsoil ATF. I'd say the nod goes to Amsoil. I'd leave the new fluid in for twice the recommended interval. I'm a GM man, who drives a 2000 Ford Taurus with the Duratec engine and AX4N transmission. Go figure. I use the Amsoil product in the transmission and power steering. It gets driven hard in the searing Texas heat.
I changed the factory fill ATF (and filter) in my 02' Buick at 36000 to Mobil 1. It shifts as smooth as butter and I will probably not change it again until 100k. I think the piece-of-mind alone makes M1 worth the extra cost. Does anyone think going to 100k is too long an interval?
I ran my 2004 GMC Z71 Ext cab pickup about 5,000+ miles (forget to note the exact miles) then had the ASE trans shop flush out the factory ATF and install Amsoil. I felt more comfortable letting a pro mess with a new truck than doing it myself which I am very capable of doing). That was last summer and its been shifting smoothe ever since. This is not the first truck I switched over to Asmoil ATF, the first one was a new 1979 Chevy conversion van, I really made a big different on that 1979 truck. Today the ATF are much better and GM has been one of the mfg to use the advance ATF's.
Give it a sometime on the the OEM fluid, say a year or 15,000 miles then consider the change. This will give the vehicle time to burn in etc. You don't want to go spending money and changing ATF untill you are certain everything it fine with the vehicle.
Give it a sometime on the the OEM fluid, say a year or 15,000 miles then consider the change. This will give the vehicle time to burn in etc. You don't want to go spending money and changing ATF untill you are certain everything it fine with the vehicle.
Since the GM "suggested" regular service interval is 100k, I like to change them at half that mileage [I drop the pan and replace the filter]. I'm honestly not that picky about the replacement fluid. I would consider a transmission cooler and the synthetic fluid if you are going to tow much.
Changing out the OEM fluid before 30,000 miles seems like a waste of time and money to me.
Changing out the OEM fluid before 30,000 miles seems like a waste of time and money to me.
I dropped the pan to change the fluid and filter on my 2000 Taurus at 29,000 miles. I was shocked to see all of the crud in the pan. So much for Motorcraft Mercon V. On paper their fluids look well above-average.
Because of what I found, I knew I would have to establish a solid preventive maintenance program for my AX4N. I tapped a 1/2" hole in the pan, installed a B&M drain plug, and switched to Amsoil synthetic ATF. Amsoil has the only Mercon V-rated full synthetic ATF I am aware of. Gas mileage and butt horsepower improved a little bit and I know my transmission will not let me down in the Texas heat. Since then, I've gone an additional 33,000 miles. I plan to change the fluid and filter again when the odometer hits 100,000 miles.
Because of what I found, I knew I would have to establish a solid preventive maintenance program for my AX4N. I tapped a 1/2" hole in the pan, installed a B&M drain plug, and switched to Amsoil synthetic ATF. Amsoil has the only Mercon V-rated full synthetic ATF I am aware of. Gas mileage and butt horsepower improved a little bit and I know my transmission will not let me down in the Texas heat. Since then, I've gone an additional 33,000 miles. I plan to change the fluid and filter again when the odometer hits 100,000 miles.
I just decided to keep my 99 Tahoe with a 5.7 for my Daughter to drive. It has 135k on it and I was planning on changing vehicles soon.
I bought it with 102k. the ATF looked and smelled good. 33k miles later, much of that towing a boat and all of it in hot weather.
The motor is strong but the tranny is starting to feel a bit sloppy so I want to give it some TLC. Should I drop that pan and change part of the fluid a couple times or just go ahead with teh fluid exchange? Is which line do you disconnect from the radiator to drain the tranny?
How much fluid should I have on hand?
Any recomendations on fluid for this beast?
I plan on keeping it for at least 4 more years.
I bought it with 102k. the ATF looked and smelled good. 33k miles later, much of that towing a boat and all of it in hot weather.
The motor is strong but the tranny is starting to feel a bit sloppy so I want to give it some TLC. Should I drop that pan and change part of the fluid a couple times or just go ahead with teh fluid exchange? Is which line do you disconnect from the radiator to drain the tranny?
How much fluid should I have on hand?
Any recomendations on fluid for this beast?
I plan on keeping it for at least 4 more years.
The best Dexron is one that meets the Allison TES-295 spec - proven in city buses and trash trucks
here's a list of them:
http://www.allisontransmission.com/service/autoapp172/viewpage.jsp?ThisPage=3
here's a list of them:
http://www.allisontransmission.com/service/autoapp172/viewpage.jsp?ThisPage=3
How does Amsoil ATF compare to these?
I have a 2004 Toyota 4runner V8 with the 5 speed auto. In 2004 Toyota went with a new ATF called WS-ATF (WS- World Standard) they claim there is no other compatable ATF fluid and it can't be mixed with any other ATF or your transmission will fail. Toyota eliminated the dipstick for the transmission in 2004 when they went with this new fluid and claims it is a life time fill fluid and only needs to be serviced at 60K miles if you use your vehicle to tow. This transmission has a large transmission ATF cooler and it is noted to be a very dependable transmission. Are all of the automakers going to advanced fluids, transmission coolers and sealed units? I plan on having mine serviced at 60K miles even though I don't tow, but I am amazed at how maintaince free they are making these new vehicles. Mine also came with 100K mile coolant. About all I need to do is OCI and grease the driveline and I will do the diff's and transfer case rotate tires but that is about it.
They claim equivalence on their website but have not done the testing to certify to TES-295.
This is the Amsoil ATF that they "recommended" where the TES-295 spec is called out:
http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/atd.aspx
Amsoil's Universal ATF is a different fluid:
http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/atf.aspx
http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/atd.aspx
Amsoil's Universal ATF is a different fluid:
http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/atf.aspx
From the Amsoil Torque-Drive website: "The only oil on the market, however, that is formally identified by Allison® as a TES-295 product is TranSynd® Automatic Transmission Fluid, which happens to be sold by Allison® in partnership with Castrol®."
This is another example of Amsoil's deceitful marketing practices. There are in fact FIVE ATFs on the market that meet the TES-295 spec and are APPROVED by Allison. These fluids are listed on the Allison website.
Sealed transmissions with 100K mile service intervals are an automotive megatrend. My 2001 Passat has a sealed ZF tiptronic unit. Because of city driving, I plan to change the fluid every 40K miles / 65K km or so, but this is admittedly just as guess.quote:
Originally posted by Pitbull:
... In 2004 Toyota went with a new ATF called WS-ATF (WS- World Standard) they claim there is no other compatable ATF fluid and it can't be mixed with any other ATF or your transmission will fail. Toyota eliminated the dipstick for the transmission in 2004 when they went with this new fluid and claims it is a life time fill fluid and only needs to be serviced at 60K miles if you use your vehicle to tow. This transmission has a large transmission ATF cooler and it is noted to be a very dependable transmission. Are all of the automakers going to advanced fluids, transmission coolers and sealed units? I plan on having mine serviced at 60K miles even though I don't tow, but I am amazed at how maintaince free they are making these new vehicles. Mine also came with 100K mile coolant. About all I need to do is OCI and grease the driveline and I will do the diff's and transfer case rotate tires but that is about it.
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